Fate of the Elves

[peregrin]

I've been thinking about the Three Rings of the Elves and their place in the grand scheme of things and how their fate is a 'Catch-22'. I am worried about how PJ will convey their..er..predicament. I fear it will be somewhat skimmed over due to lack of time. I think he should explain how the Elves endure age after age, how hard it must be for Legolas knowing his fate, not just see him drift over the Sea. I will leave, I will leave the woods that bore me; For our days are ending and our years failing. I will pass the wide waters lonely sailing. Long are the waves on the Last Shore falling, Sweet are the voices in the Lost Isle calling, In Eressea, in Elvenhome that no man can discover, Where the leaves fall not: land of my people for ever! Any thoughts about this? Any spoilers?

[galadriel1]

That`s my biggest problem with the movies! There are going to be a lot of important things/necessary info such as that being left out. Three 2-or 3-hour movies are just not going to be enough time to do the whole trilogy really well. You`d need more like 5 or 6 good hours for each part of the trilogy. Heck, maybe they should just do the mini-series thing like was done with "Winds of War"/"War and Remembrance" and go in depth of each part of the trilogy. OK, so maybe not. How about 3 2-hr. movies for each part of the trilogy? :-) Hell, we would all be in our graves before they`d ever get finished! :-) Excuse my strange mood, guys. It`s getting late and I`m getting extremely giddy. I need sleep. Good night all. -G.

[bmilder]

Hmm... Well, I heard that the first few minutes of the movie are going to give the viewers an overview of the past thousand years or so of Middle Earth history :). This is supposed to include stuff like the conflict between the Elves and the Dwarves (so the friendship between Legolas and Gimli seems as remarkable as it is), and may include the making of the Ring, Isildur's taking of the Ring from Sauron, and Bilbo's discovery. While it's admirable that he's giving an overview in the prologue, I think non-Tolkien fans will just be confused :)

[Darth Tater]

He wants to do all that in a few minutes? God bless the poor man!

[galadriel1]

How are they going to do all that in a few minutes? Hmmmm.... I don`t know about this! I guess we`ll just have to wait and see?!?!Are we there yet?

[anduin]

Ah yes, the friendship of Legolas and Gimili, that is important too. I don't see how the man is going to pull it off. No wonder no one has ever tried to do this movie before, regardless of the advancements CGI. There are so many subtle things going on. How do you convey all of them? Hopefully, those who go to see the movie, but haven't read the book, it will make them want to read it.

[Darth Tater]

Now I'm scared. It's beginning to look like it will be impossible to make these movies well.

[galadriel1]

Ah yes! One of the great underlying themes! Would Frodo have ever made it to Mount Doom w/out the faithful friendship and unwavering loyalty of Sam? NO! So much depended on this friendship! I also love the friendship that develops between Gimli and Legolas. It`s a wonderful 'b' plot! I like when they`re tallying 'notches' on their bow and axe. It will be interesting to see how they develop this on screen. I hope they get it right. I`m so afraid I will be greatly disappointed with the way they do things. And what will be left out!

[Quaff Down Gin]

"That`s my biggest problem with the movies! There are going to be a lot of important things/necessary info such as that being left out. Three 2-or 3-hour movies are just not going to be enough time to do the whole trilogy really well. You`d need more like 5 or 6 good hours for each part of the trilogy." -- Galadriel I feel the same way about STAR WARS!!! Sorry, had to say it. I AM a BASHER, after all... :) On another note, yes, it's going to be difficult to convy these points you all bring up. Impossible for a new fan. On the other hand, I pity anyone who sees this movie without reading the books first. That's NOT the way it should be done. This is NOT a replacement for the books. It's a complimentary visual introduction. Let's just hope that they hint upon these themes enough so that we, the core fans, will pick up on it and be appeased. That's all I'm hoping for. I really don't care about the newbie's. Sorry, they should read the book.

[anduin]

"I really don't care about the newbie's. Sorry, they should read the book." I agree with you there Quaff. Remember when DUNE came to the theatres, and they handed out glossaries, just so those who hadn't read the book could get some understanding of the movie? They should have handed out the book intstead. :) It was so much better!! "This is NOT a replacement for the books. It's a complimentary visual introduction." That is great way to think of it. :) I think I will repeat that over and over to myself, if I start thinking that these movies will blow. Thanks Quaff!!

[Darth Tater]

I think that anyone who sees the movies without reading the books should have to undergo Chinese Water Torture. I will seriously brake off friendships with folks who see it before reading the books. Ok, so I'm obsesive. So what?

[peregrin]

J/K :P

[Darth Tater]

I am the Emperor of bad spelling!

[Elanor]

My greatest fear is that it will end up like The Black Cauldron. Lloyd Alexander's books are so great, but Disney oversimplified abominably and brought in all this weird stuff that just took up time and was, frankly, repulsive. In most good fantasy, there are so many complex situations that are easy to understand in a book, but would take forever to explain in a movie. A movie can also completely change the mood of the story, and emphasize the wrong things. A great theme for me is Frodo's statement at the end, something like, "for people to have [good things, peace and safety], someone has to first lose them so others can keep them." (I know it's not exact; I'm at college and didn't bring my books, stupid me) He gave up so much physically, and especially his innocence, to make the world safe for others. PJ had better keep this message in his movies, as well as many others. Elanor of Westmarch

[bmilder]

Ah yes, I remember the Black Cauldron... when I was younger, I read the series and when I heard there was a Disney movie, I wanted to see it, but of course it was so bad that Disney was hiding it :P. Finally, it came out on video a few years ago, and my little brother was excited about it, so we got it. It was, as you mentioned, simplified. (Still, it's Disney, what do you expect? ;)) Of course, this is a live-action movie, and PJ is going to have a movie for each book, so it can't be too bad. (Remember, in TBC Disney tried to cram two books into less than two hours)

[Darth Tater]

I hope they use "The Road Goes Ever On" as an important part in the movies. That poem always had a strong impact on my appreciation of the book.

[Gimli the Dwarf]

I don't think that there will be enough time to do the whole story either. And the whole background + the Hobbit in a few minutes? I don't think thats possible.

[Hernalt]

There are already in existence a few icons of the concept of timelessness. The recent commercial application of the rotational freezeframe (used in The Matrix) gives an immediate notion of what such phenomena does. The Elven timelessness of Rivendell and Lothlorien is but a flavor of that. Obviously they won't freeze Elves and revolve the camera around them "Just Like That", but the tools are there. Everyone at some time is dizzied by the sensation of timelessness - it's either the *stretching* form of being where you don't want to be and the clock just keeps ticking by with agonizing glacialness.. or the *shrinking* form where you're flying by the seat of your pants and you stop short in wonder of how it got so late so quickly. By the future start of FOTR, the Elves have dallied in Middle-earth, eschewing and postponing the summons to the West, while their weariness increases at a pace only offset by the magic *stretching* of their Rings of Power. Happily, they aren't quite as *stretched* as poor Biblo, who carried the BIG Ring.

A form of observable timelessness is experienced in many disciplines. Athletes, musicians and artists get in their 'zone', and by this expansion of available time to perfect something, they accomplish the inhuman. Even well-remembered fist-fights with siblings include the spinning sensation that everything around slowed to a crawl as you accomplished your objectives. An essay by the JC poster Lyta Alexander deals with the martial arts concepts of "Zanshin" - 'acting in a pure manner without thinking', and "Shinkengata" - the 'fire within', 'single-minded attack' and 'single purpose'. ( qui-gonlist.home.att.net/ninja.htm (http://qui-gonlist.home.att.net/ninja.htm ))

Back to the Matrix: see how Elven timelessness connects to the martial speed of Neo and Agent Smith? This is why Hugo Weaving WAS BORN to play Elrond!! :-D

We know they can't zipdrive some sprawling explanation into a 2.5 hour movie, but they'll think of something. Hypnotism is a factor of expanding time: Carl Segan's Contact began with a dramatic, hypnotic pullback from the earth as the radio signal went back through the years, lulling us through generations in a matter of seconds. The Time Machine (1960) used a similar but visual 'slide-show' effect to lull the viewer into a false suspension of time. So there's at least some cinematic tricks to pull if nothing else. But I'm sure the exposition dialogue will deliver, especially depending on the score.