Ringwraiths

[viggosbeard]

Couldnt find a previous thread on this, so if anyone can point me in the right direction I would be most appreciative -

The names of the 9 mortal men doomed to die - all I can get is ;

1 The witch king
2 Khamul ( who was an easterling king )

anybody know the other 7 ?

[Nilvasaien]

According to "Complete Guide to Middle-Earth" by Robert Foster, "[N]one of the names of the Nazgul are given, although Gothmog was possibly the name of the second highest Nazgul". As you stated, the Witch-King of Angmar was Lord of the Nazgul.
You probably also know that all of the Nine were enslaved during the Second Age, corrupted through their desire for power. Foster also states that three of the Nazgul were Black Numenoreans.

Hope this helps:D

[viggosbeard]

Thanks Nilvasaien ,iF thats the case , does that mean we now have three -
or is khamul wrong ?

1 The witch king ( although this was obviously not his original name, well who would name their child that ! )

2 Khamul

3 Gothmog

any advance on these ? I have to admit im slightly dubious about Khamul as ive never heard his name apart from in a Companion guide I have ( that has one or two other slightly dodgy references ), anyway have your twopenneth ! Lets have a heated debate ! or not.....

[Mirahzi]

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda), both are legitimate. Khamul was Sauron's lieutenant (the Witch King was his captain) and Gothmog was the Witch King's lieutenant. In order of ranking: Witch King, Khamul, Gothmog.

[Comic Book Guy]

It is uncertain that Gothmog was a Ringwraith, it is never said that he actually was a Ringwraith, it is possible that he could be but nowhere in Tolkien canon does it state that Gothmog was a Nazgul.

[BeardofPants]

Yup, that's the sum entirety of our knowledge. :(

[Arathorn]

It would seem that if you were a member of a tribe that did not actually worship Sauron and your king turned baddie, you'd probably hide his name and prevent people from ever speaking it again. The shame would probably do that and we may then suppose that that's probably why the others remain nameless.

Just some speculation on my part...

[Comic Book Guy]

I have to admit im slightly dubious about Khamul ....

Khamul is mentioned inexplicitly in the essay Hunt for the Ring which is featured in Unfinished Tales as 'The Black Easterling'. Khamul has interesting role to play in the Lord of the Rings, he is the Ringwraith that speaks to Gaffer Gamgee.

Of Khamul it is said that he was the most ready of all the Nazgul, after the black captain himself, to perceive the presence of the Ring but also the one whose power was most confused and diminished by sunlight.

[Khamûl]

Gee, you would think that with my name being what it is, I'd be some kind of expert.:D But I'm not, so I'll have to look around and see if I can dig anything up.

[Ñólendil]

I always imagined Gothmog as an Orc-captain, though I suppose it would make sense if he was a Ringwraith. If he was a Ringwraith then I doubt "Gothmog" was his right name. I don't remember the meaning, but it's something rather nefarious. Has something to do with oppression, I think. ... Come to think of it, an "Orc-captain" now sounds rather doubtful. Orks don't use Elvish names, as far as I know.

Brendan, it's hardly important, but the later text cited names him "the Shadow of the East", rather than the earlier "Black Easterling".

I find it interesting to note that according to Faramir, a few at least of the Nazgûl were evil Dúnedain.

[Blackheart]

Not to mention that Gothmog was also one of Morgoth's leftenants, and a Balrog to boot.

To me it's more conceivable that the balrog reincarnated as an orc captain, than a man, even a black numenorian, would adopt a Balrog's given name...

It's another one of those Glorfindal name things....

[Ñólendil]

But the reincarnation of Gothmog Lord of Balrogs sounds like a terrible and amazing thing. Would such a being end up with less power than the Witch King? The Balrogs were sort of Morgoth's Ringwraiths, after all. Maybe it was a name a Ringwraith was given after he and become a Ringwraith -- by Orks in memory of the old Gothmog, or by Sauron himself.

Also there is this: this "Gothmog" individual was the Lieutenant of Minas Morgul, but Gorbag was the Captain of the Orcs of that Tower.

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Also there is this: this "Gothmog" individual was the Lieutenant of Minas Morgul, but Gorbag was the Captain of the Orcs of that Tower.
I think he was the lieutenant of Morgul (Witch King), not Minas Morgul. Also, I believe he took command of the forces at Minas Morgul after the Witch King's death, manifesting his seniority over Gorbag.

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Would such a being end up with less power than the Witch King

Who knows? Not 'nough information to speculate.

[Ñólendil]

I think he was the lieutenant of Morgul (Witch King), not Minas Morgul. Also, I believe he took command of the forces at Minas Morgul after the Witch King's death, manifesting his seniority over Gorbag.

"Morgul" is Sindarin for "Sorcery", of the evil kind. Unless Gothmog is the Lieutenant of sorcery itself I think we're talking about Minas Morgul.

[markedel]

Gothmog is mentioned after the Witch Lord's fall as lieutenant and it is never said what he is. I always though he was an orc though.

[viggosbeard]

Oh well, thanks all the above for your help, I will keep on looking and trying, if anyone gets anu more info, drop me a line.

[viggosbeard]

Just an appendix thing to this, i have just read in my very dodgy Tolkien companion ( David day )that Gothmog was indeed " Balrog of Angband,
mightiest of morgoths lieutenants". gothmog slew and wa slain by the Noldor high - capt of gondolin, Ecthelion. I cant see the reincarnation bit, so I think im going to stick with the original two.

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by viggosbeard
Just an appendix thing to this, i have just read in my very dodgy Tolkien companion ( David day )that Gothmog was indeed " Balrog of Angband,
mightiest of morgoths lieutenants". gothmog slew and wa slain by the Noldor high - capt of gondolin, Ecthelion. I cant see the reincarnation bit, so I think im going to stick with the original two.

That's probably a wise decision, since it wasn't advanced as a serious theory ;)

[osszie]

a list of the names appears here http://httpd.chello.nl/d.berkhout/#Ringwraith

as to the accuracy or the source material used for this list.........your guess is as good as mine:confused:

[Khamûl]

I doubt the authenticity of some of those names. Some of it looks like they needed some Nazgûl names for a card game and made some up.

[BeardofPants]

You think? :p

[viggosbeard]

Blackheart - im not as stupid as I look ! ? ;)

( well not all the time anyway )

[Ñólendil]

If anyone out there is searching for more Nazgûl names, stop! The only one we know is Khamûl, and that's a fact. Gothmog in the Lord of the Rings may or may not be a Ringwraith, and for the Witch King we have no proper name. We are left with Khamûl. If you want more for some specific purpose, make them up, there's nothing wrong with fan-fiction.

[entss89]

no idea!:D ;) :D ;) :D ;)

[Ñólendil]

Thank you for that insightful contribution.