The Elves...

[Nariel Starfire]

OUt of curiosity...
The Elvenking in the Hobbit... was that Thranduil? If so, would not Legolas have lived in the cave as well, and if so, doesn't that conflict with his hatred of caves?

[Faramir]

Perhaps Legolas wasn't born yet. Then his hatred of caves is probably what made him decide to go on adventures and leave home.

[afro-elf]

Very interesting question. It says that Thranduil hall were modeled after Menegroth though less splendid. I would say that it was a dislike of natural caves as opposed to and unground city.

He seemed fine in Moria ( I think), but he seemed ill at ease with the glittering caves.

[Nariel Starfire]

well, he was fine once there, but when they asked, he said that he didn't want to go to Moria.
Legolas was nearly 3000 years old in FOTR. The hobbit was only 60 years after that.

[afro-elf]

Legolas was nearly 3000 years old in FOTR

In NONE of Tolkien's work is Legolas's age given. PJ in his Horrible Movie info somewhere makes him nearly 3,000. But Tolkien NEVER mentions his age.

[Claenoic]

But I always thought that Legolas was there when the dwarves were hauled in. Who knows though? Glorfindel lived for quite some time and still looked moderately young.

[afro-elf]

Legolas is not mentioned in the Hobbit.

Elves will look "young" forever.

Galadriel is well over 10,000 years old and she is still a babe.

[Artanis]

I don't think Legolas, or the Wood-Elves in general, hated caves. They just preferred the open air and growing things around them. Caves they used for storage and shelter, and for their protection when the outside world made it necessary.

[Radagast The Brown]

if Legolas were younger then 60 years old, he wasn't go to war. It's a very young age for elves. I always thought he was 500 years old in FOTR... but i don't know that.

[afro-elf]

Elves were considered adult at age 50.

[Radagast The Brown]

and that mean they let their sons to go to a war in this age? I don't think Legolas could be such a good ranger without at least 60 years.

[afro-elf]

We let are soldiers go to war at 18. When they become an adult.

Also, its when their bodies mature. Their minds are quicker.

Also, He is not a Ranger.

[Radagast The Brown]

I meant archer (bow-man?)

and maybe you let your soldiers to go to war at this age, but usually we let them to go to war a few years later... 20 years old?

[afro-elf]

and maybe you let your soldiers to go to war at this age, but usually we let them to go to war a few years later... 20 years old?

The point was that Elves may have fought as soon as they reached adulthood.

[Radagast The Brown]

The point was that Elves may have fought as soon as they reached adulthood.could be. we will never know for sure.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

The books aren't in front of me right now, but at some point in The Two Towers while they're in the vicinity of Fangorn, Legolas notes that he's watched many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age.

He doesn't say this has been consecutively, of course, but that's the impression I got. That gives us something to go on.

An oak's life span varies according to species -- there's a 500-year-old live oak (sans a lichen beard, unfortunately) in Magnolia Springs, Alabama, for instance. But that tree needs a warmer climate than likely existed for Mirkwood. In Ithlien maybe, but not in the northern forest, which from Bilbo's description sounded like a typical northern hardwood forest in its southernmost reaches, with beech, birch, maple and a lot of oaks.

Oak species more likely to be found in there where winter held sway during part of the year likely had a slightly less lengthy lifespan than a live oak: on a quick Net search, I learned that the oldest white oak east of the Mississippi River, for instance, is some 370 years old, and bur oaks live 300 to 400 years.

Figuring 300 to 400 years at a crack, Legolas is telling us that's he's been around a long time.

He didn't stand out in The Hobbit, but then his dad's only concessions to kingly attire were a crown of leaves or flowers, depending on the season, and a carved staff (of oak, if I remember right). The Wood Elves were apparently not big on pomp and easily recognizable symbols of rank, so to Bilbo (who had a lot of other stuff to think about at the time and certainly wasn't likely to be present at meals and elvish celebrations where rank would have been more obvious) Legolas would just have seemed to be another elf.

[UnStashable]

There is also a dialogue between Gandalf and Legolas in the Two Towers about the Golden Hall in Edoras of Rohan. Gandalf says that too the men of rohan it seems like time began when that hall was built Legolas says he remembers it as if it was yesterday or something equivalent to that. And the hall was built around 500 years before LOTR, I think.

[Radagast The Brown]

I thought Legolas was 500. my sister told me that... so I thought he's old and probably saw Bilbo and dwarfs in Mirkwood.

[afro-elf]

I always felt around 600 but that is just an opinion.

[Caleb]

I think Legolas is 21 and the real reason he left the caves is because he was drinkin all the frickin wine and they threw him out.

[nazgul prince]

I thought most of the elves of mirkwood did not live in the cave at all.I thought most lived just outside,but in time of danger they would all go inside.Thran's cave was more of a sheltered fortress then a last homley house.And i belive legolas was born sometime before sauron came to mirkwood.Sometime before T.A 1000.

[afro-elf]

Actaully, Thran's hall were based on Menegoth which I believe were quite grand.

[barrelrider110]

Legolas was merely joking with Gimli, probably in reference to their experience in the mines of Moria.

[Nariel]

but, barrelrider, Legolas didn't want to go into Moria in the first place. If he didn't mid caves, he would at least have not cared. Unless........


MAYBE he knew about the Balrog.........

[barrelrider110]

True Nariel, but the Mines of Moria had a reputation as a bad place. None of the company was eager to go except for Gimli.

With regard to Legolas's thoughts on the Glittering caves, consider the following excerpt from TTT:
My good Legolas, do you know that the caverns of Helm's Deep are vast and beautiful? There would be an endless pilgrimage of Dwarves, merely to gaze at them, if such things were known to be. Aye indeed, they would pay pure gold for a brief glance!'
'And I would give gold to be excused,' said Legolas; 'and double to be let out, if I strayed in!'
'You have not seen, so I forgive your jest,' said Gimli.

[Aeryn]

Originally posted by Faramir
Perhaps Legolas wasn't born yet. Then his hatred of caves is probably what made him decide to go on adventures and leave home.
It says in LOTR that legolas has seen many trees grom from acorn to ruinous age. So he had to exist then. and I dont get where you think legolas hates caves. in return of the king (i believe) he was willing to go on the paths of the dead underground and gimli was not. ?

[Linarryl]

I don't think Legolas HATED caves, he probably just didn't feel so nice around them. Besides he's a wood elf!
*GO LEGOLAS!*

[Miranda]

Maybe Legolas had claustrophobia- common affliction- he can't be all perfect can he? As for his age there's a bit in TTT (can't remember precisely- its either just before Fangorn or just before they meet the riders but I could be wrong- no access to the books at school) when he speaks to Gimli and Aragorn and says something about "since I have been travelling with you children again." which must indicate he is quite old for considering everything Aragorn and Gimli have done they must be quite old. I know Peter Jackson sees him as two thousand nine hundred and thirty one but I'm not sure. Is there any indication of Arwen's age anywhere (I can't remember one) because I see them being of a similar age the equivilant of human mid twenties. Mx

[Dunadan]

The Appendices to ROTK have her birtday at about the year 200 of the Third Age, which would make her 2,800-ish during LOTR.

Now I know you will be able to sleep better with that useful information.

[Miranda]

Yes indeedie!!! No more tossing and turning thinking oh God how old is Legolas and how old is Arwen!!! Is he young for his age or getting passed it? You are my salvation Dunadan my friend! Mx

[Novbariel]

well i always thought Legolas' age is around 2000+. ah, that's just my opinion, no one cares anyway:(
[never thought Legolas age is around 500-,
probably too young for an Elf to set out on a perilous journey]

[Miranda]

I need some help with this elf thing. Who is Legolas' mother? Mx

[Beleg Strongbow]

Not specified. Wasn't Legolas's birthdate listed in the Appendix?

[Miranda]

Probably- don't have the books to hand at the moment and there's so much information in them its hard to remember what's what! I wish they did a family tree for the Mirkwood elves. I have one for Galadriel and Elrond etc but nothing for Legolas' peeps. He must be related to Galadriel etc some way but I can't find how and its really frustrating. He's such a great character but there isn't much about him personally in the books- will read them all again to check that I've not missed anything though. Mx

[Novbariel]

Legolas is probably related to Galadriel maybe because his father was once a kinsman of Celeborn in Doriath and Galadriel is Celeborn's wife, so does that make any sense, huh huh???

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Novbariel
Legolas is probably related to Galadriel maybe because his father was once a kinsman of Celeborn in Doriath and Galadriel is Celeborn's wife, so does that make any sense, huh huh???

Yeah thanks. Its just so annoying that I have so little information on his parentage as my fan fic is based on him and his title and its really hard to write about him without knowing his family history. If anyone has any insight into the world of Legolas Greenleaf let me know- actually I was wondering if he ever got married or if he was just some loner who hung out with a dwarf all his life!!! Mx:D

[Duddun]

Back to whether or not Legolas liked caves. I think he may have hated caves and have been one of the ones who lived in Mirkwood but not in the caves. He may have lived outside.

Sorry I can't find anything on Legolas's family, but then again I only looked very briefly.

[Elf.Freak]

actually, legolas is 2956 in FOTR (crazy fan girl, typical! :rolleyes: ). anyways...what was the question? :D

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Elf.Freak
actually, legolas is 2956 in FOTR (crazy fan girl, typical! :rolleyes: ). anyways...what was the question? :D

Maybe you can help me oh fountain of all things Legolas-y!!! Do you know who Legolas' mother is (I know his Papa's Thranduil) and whether he has siblings, a wife, related to the other elves eg Galadriel etc? I've looked far and wide for the info but to no avail- help me!!!!!! Mx

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by afro-elf
In NONE of Tolkien's work is Legolas's age given. PJ in his Horrible Movie info somewhere makes him nearly 3,000. But Tolkien NEVER mentions his age.

True, but Legolas himself states he saw many a oak grow from sapling to a venerable tree, and that in Fangorn he felt young again. Given that oaks live, sometimes, over 800 years it would seem likely that he had 1000+ years by the time of the LotR.

[Novbariel]

i don't think there's anywhere in Tolkien's works mentioning about his momma or siblings (perhaps no siblings!), no wife (maybe) and sticks with the dwarf all his life in Eressea... yet i don't think he hates caves, just not so fond of them. about his age, i think he's old enough (though not wise enough) because he once sang the song about Nimrodel but he couldn't finish it cuz he had forgotten much---wonder how long does it take for an elf to forget something???

oh yes, does anyone know about Legolas Greenleaf of Gondolin?

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Novbariel
i don't think there's anywhere in Tolkien's works mentioning about his momma or siblings (perhaps no siblings!), no wife (maybe) and sticks with the dwarf all his life in Eressea... yet i don't think he hates caves, just not so fond of them. about his age, i think he's old enough (though not wise enough) because he once sang the song about Nimrodel but he couldn't finish it cuz he had forgotten much---wonder how long does it take for an elf to forget something???

oh yes, does anyone know about Legolas Greenleaf of Gondolin?

Damn!!! Oh well, I'll have to be a bit creative then!!! I thought Legolas was Legolas Greenleaf of Gondolin but I could be wrong- I usually am :rolleyes: Its strange because someone told me the other day that Legolas was the elvish way of saying Greenleaf so why would it be his first name and his second name!!!! Oh everything is so confusing- why didn't I get into something less taxing like the Teletubbies!!!???;) Mx

[Elvellon]

No, Tolkien says (somewhere) that Legolas was a common enough name among elves. Also the Sindar of the Forest Kingdom were of the people of Thingol, not of Turgon. In fact Oropher (Thranduil’s father) disliked the Noldor intensely.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Elvellon
No, Tolkien says (somewhere) that Legolas was a common enough name among elves. Also the Sindar of the Forest Kingdom were of the people of Thingol, not of Turgon. In fact Oropher (Thranduil’s father) disliked the Noldor intensely.

Oh well! I am humble to your wisdom! Mx:D

[Novbariel]

well, according to the BOLT, the Gnomes like to mix names, i mean they like to add a name to a name which has similar meaning or sound similar, like Turin Turambar. the same applies to Legolas Greenleaf.
legolas = greenleaf

anyway, what would happen if the legolas greenleaf of gondolin (a.k.a laiqalasse) meets the legolas greenleaf of mirkwood in tol eressea. bet they yank each other's hair, :D

[Miranda]

Originally posted by Novbariel
well, according to the BOLT, the Gnomes like to mix names, i mean they like to add a name to a name which has similar meaning or sound similar, like Turin Turambar. the same applies to Legolas Greenleaf.
legolas = greenleaf

anyway, what would happen if the legolas greenleaf of gondolin (a.k.a laiqalasse) meets the legolas greenleaf of mirkwood in tol eressea. bet they yank each other's hair, :D

Tee hee hee, I can see it now!!!!! Hand bags at dawn! Mx

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

Legolas was alive when Bilbo found the ring but here wasn't alive 3000 years ago because he is 2000+ nearly 3000 but not yet.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Novbariel
well, according to the BOLT, the Gnomes like to mix names ......GNOMES???????

[Elvellon]

In his earlier mythology Tolkien used to call the people we now know as the Noldor of “Gnomes.”;)

[Eothain]

Perhaps he wasn't born.

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

Legolas is 3019 years old.

[Blackboar]

Legolas!! Less than 60 years old!

I don't think so!:D :rolleyes:

[Nilore]

It is unsure of Legolas' age though.

[Novbariel]

gnomes were somehow related to the elves, uh, i don't think the noldor are called 'gnomes'..........

[Artanis]

'Gnomes' was the name of the Elves who followed Finwe to Valinor in eth earlier form of the mythology. Later Tolkien changed the name to the Noldor, like he changed a lot of other names of persons and places also, and genealogies, and other stuff.

[Eothain]

maybe he wasn't born.

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

He was born because it says on Legolas profile thats he's 3019 years old.

[Novbariel]

honestly, that isn't his real age!! they just made it up so that he looks 'real'.

[cian]

Originally posted by Novbariel well, according to the BOLT, the Gnomes like to mix names, i mean they like to add a name to a name which has similar meaning or sound similar, like Turin Turambar. the same applies to Legolas Greenleaf. legolas = greenleaf

The two names were Laigolas 'Green-leaf' and Legolast 'Keen-sight' ~ Legolas being a 'confusion of the two' (as stated in BOLT Appendix at least). It was said the Gnomes delighted to give two similar-sounding names of 'dissimilar' meaning. English 'Greenleaf' is a translation of course.

Tolkien apparently later borrowed the name for his character in LOTR (Gimli appears in BOLT too, for example). For the 'updated' idea concerning the name Legolas check out Letters.

¤

[Novbariel]

OMG! are we talking about the ELVES or just LEGOLAS!?? :confused:

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It seems to have migrated to just Legolas. :rolleyes:

To Elf.freak; isn't that the age he was in the movie, not the book?

To L@ury; sorry, I don't remember that. What was your basis for the age of 3019? That's interesting, because the War of the Ring ended in TA 3019.

Anywho, people mentioned the appendices, concerning Legolas and Arwen's dates of birth; a very good idea indeed!

Arwen was born in TA 241, it says.
Just a slightly-related sidenote, the Shadow fell on Greenwood c. 1050.
I went through up till the year Bilbo went on his adventure, and didn't see anything about Legolas.

[Novbariel]

hey, i tell you guys something... LEGOLAS IS IN THE HOBBIT!!!... well that's what i think.
because gloin remembered him during the Council of elrond. so he must be one of the elves who captured the dwarves in THE HOBBIT but his name wasn't mentioned.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I took that to just mean the Elves of Mirkwood, not him in particular.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

3019? I doubt it. That would mean he was born in the year that Sauron was over-thrown by the Last Alliance Thranduil was at war for 10 odd years, prior to that so he couldn't have got his groove on with Legolas's mom. Unless....

I think that he was under 1,000 years old. But that's just a rough guess.

[Ithildin55]

As was stated several pages previously, there is no evidence that Tolkien ever stated an age for Legolas. The movie “assigned” him the age of 2931. The most logical estimates I have seen concerning his age place him about 600 – 1000 years old at the time of the War of the Ring. But that is only an estimate – Tolkien could have envisioned him being much older.

If you want a more thorough (and lengthy!) discussion of what is known (and not known) about Legolas’ family and age – you could check out my article at: http://woodrealm.tripod.com/legolasresearchandfanclub/id34.html

Ithildin

[Ithildin55]

And to expound a bit on the original question of this thread: re: Legolas’ reluctance to enter caves...
(Sorry, I don’t have the books handy, so couldn’t provide quotes on everything right now.)

A description of Thranduil’s (the Elvenking’s) Palace:
“Inside the passages were lit with red torch-light, and the elf-guards sang as they marched along the twisting, crossing, echoing paths. These were not like those of the goblin-cities; they were smaller, less deep underground and filled with a cleaner air. In a great hall with pillars hewn out of the living stone sat the Elvenking on a chair of carven wood.” The Hobbit

As someone mentioned, most of Thranduil’s subjects lived in the forest in and around the trees, not in the palace.
The king’s cave was his palace, and the strong place of his treasure, and the fortress of his people against their enemies.” The Hobbit

Of Legolas and caves...
I think Legolas’ reluctance to enter caverns is easily explained, even in the light of the fact that his father’s palace was also a cave. In LOTR Legolas expressed his desire to avoid entering Moria, but that was well known to be an evil place and a dwelling of Dwarves, with whom (up to that point) he had had little reason or desire to associate. Its tunnels wound much deeper and further under the mountains than did Thranduil’s halls and it probably had few if any openings to the outside air.

He later also made it clear to Gimli that he had no wish to enter Aglarond – until Gimli so exquisitely described the beauty to be found there. Then he promised to return with the Dwarf and tour the caves with him.

Legolas did not enjoy traversing the Paths of the Dead, though he emphasized that he did not fear the dead spirits. He endured the subterranean darkness there as he did in Moria because it was the road they needed to travel.

Ithildin

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

His age is 3019 on a website but they are wrong. My friend told my his age but I can't remember what she said.

[Legoles]

Some one stole my book so I cant check:(

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by L@ur@y Elven Warrior
His age is 3019 on a website but they are wrong. My friend told my his age but I can't remember what she said.

His true age is unknown.