The Rings

[princess-arwen]

The One Ring.....

Can anyone give me some good information about the ring... you know like it's actual powers? And can anyone answer this, when anyone put on the One Ring they became invisable, when Sauron was wearing the ring at the start of the FOTR he was visable how and why???

All the other rings....the 3 rings given to the elves... the 9 rings given to the men (well we know what happend to the men...fools!!) and the 7 rings given to the drawves ..... what happened to them what were they're powers?????


What ever you know about the Rings of Middle Earth, please put it here!!!

[princess-arwen]

I was only referring to a part in the film... please don't shut this thread down!!!!!! I only read that thread to do with keeping the books and film separate after i wrote that !!!!

[Starr Polish]

My theory on why Sauron wasn't invisible when he wore it in the movie is this (and sorry about addressing the movie verse here, admin and mods):

Since Sauron was the forger of The Ring, and also the lord of it, he could control it. If he didn't want to be invisible when he wore it, he wouldn't be.

[BeardofPants]

The elven rings weren't given to them. They made them.

[Khadrane]

About the seven Rings, some Sauron got and the rest were destroyed. And I agree with Starr Polish on why Sauron was visible.

[cassiopeia]

I think Sauron got 3 of the dwarves rings back and 4 were destroyed by dragons. The elvish rings were with Elrond (called Vilya), Galadriel (Nenya) and Gandalf (Narya). Cirdan gave his to Gandalf and Gil-Galad gave his to Erond. I don't think the lesser rings made you invisible. My question: would a microbe on the inside of the one ring become invisble and evil? :D

[Ñólendil]

I think the Great Rings only had the invisability effect on mortals and that is why Sauron did not become invisable. But I agree that could have chose to be visable, if the Ring would have it otherwise.

The three Elven Rings passed into the forgotten True West. I imagine the three Dwarven Rings and the Nine Rings that he wore died with Sauron, or else they remain in the ruins of the Black Tower. But they must have been shorn of their power.

As for powers, the One Ring was made by Sauron to increase his own innate power. He put part of his very self into the Ring, part of his spirit and will, so that the Ring had from him it's own sort of conscience. In concentrating his power he increased it, while he was wearing the Ring and he became more powerful than he had ever been since the Beginning. It increased the life-span of mortals until their bodies stretched and faded away and to all people the Ring imparted great power, according to their measure. Being evil and filled only with the evil of Sauron, it also of course corrupted all who wielded it, if they were not already wicked.

I don't know what power the Nine Rings gave and I am not familiar with the Dwarven Rings. I know the Dwarven Rings brought luck and wealth and gold and good-fortune, seemingly, until they betrayed their masters with death and treachery. Or at least one Dwarven Ring did.

As for the Elven Rings, no one really knows for sure. Narya, the Ring of Fire, kindled the hearts free people, it gave them hope and fair visions. It increased Gandalf's ability to do this, when CÃ*rdan gave it to him. I remember that Galadriel's longing for the Sea increased while she wore Nenya, but I don't exactly what that was all about. I know nothing of Elrond's Ring of Air.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Can someone tell me which of Tolkiens books go into more detail about these rings?

[Sween]

Tom Bomadile also wore the ring but he did not turn invisiable which is a bit odd. Since toms a mystery and we dont want to get into the tom debate as well lets just say it wont effect people of mair. I think that someone like Ganalf or Sauraman could of wrestled control over the ring but would sumcome to evil. Sauron was as fully in control of the ring as the movie makes out.

[Artanis]

The Elves were able exist in two worlds at the same time, the body existed in the material world as we know it, while the spirit (I think it is called Fea), existed in the spiritual (in lack of a better word) world. The same goes for Maiar. Mortals on the other hand, existed only in the material world.

So here's a theory I've read somewhere, don't remember where:
The ring would give a mortal, when wearing it, access to the spiritual world. He would move from the material world to the spiritual world, and as part of the spiritual world be invicible to other Men. The man wearing the ring would also be able to see the spirits.

This explaines why Frodo became invicible when wearing the ring, and also why he suddenly was able to perceive the Ringwraiths at Weathertop (and they were able to see him clearly only when he wore the ring!), and not only their horses and armour, since the wraiths had become part of the spiritual world.

The stab with the Morgul-blade had similar effect on Frodo, he gradually moved into the wraiths world. At the Ford he was so affected he was able to see the Glorfindel as he was in the other world. LoTR says:

...it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; ...
and later in Rivendell, Gandalf explaines to Frodo:

...those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.


... you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn.

[Archbob the Elder]

Supposedly the ring is supposed to give you mastery over all living things.

[Claenoic]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
As for the Elven Rings, no one really knows for sure. Narya, the Ring of Fire, kindled the hearts free people, it gave them hope and fair visions. It increased Gandalf's ability to do this, when CÃ*rdan gave it to him. I remember that Galadriel's longing for the Sea increased while she wore Nenya, but I don't exactly what that was all about. I know nothing of Elrond's Ring of Air.

Excuse me, but didn't Galadriel have the ring of air, and Elrond the ring of water?

[Christiana]

er..Vilya was the Ring of Air.and the dwarves were inflamed by a desire for gold from there rings.

[Claenoic]

No, it's the ring of water. It said very clearly in the end of ROTK:

Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the three.

Although I could be wrong and Vilya could be the ring of air. Comments?

[Christiana]

sim,pages 441-5 Vilya One of the Three Rings of the Elves, the Ring of Air, borne by Gil-galad and afterwars by Elrond; also called The Ring of Sapphire. 357, 370

[cassiopeia]

Sween:
Tom Bomadile also wore the ring but he did not turn invisiable which is a bit odd. Since toms a mystery and we dont want to get into the tom debate as well lets just say it wont effect people of mair. I think that someone like Ganalf or Sauraman could of wrestled control over the ring but would sumcome to evil. Sauron was as fully in control of the ring as the movie makes out.

But Gandalf was a maia and he believed it would affect him. Does that mean Tom is not a maia?

Artanis:
The Elves were able exist in two worlds at the same time, the body existed in the material world as we know it, while the spirit (I think it is called Fea), existed in the spiritual (in lack of a better word) world. The same goes for Maiar. Mortals on the other hand, existed only in the material world.

I like that theory, Artanis. Is that in the History of Middle Earth (which I havn't read), as I havn't heard it before.

[Claenoic]

Oh :o Ack. I'm sorry. Point taken.

[Ñólendil]

Mortals on the other hand, existed only in the material world.

This is not strictly true. Everything and everyone existed in both world, though mortals did not "live" in both worlds at once. They were not at anyrate physically aware of the Unseen world, as Elves were. But they had forms, even if vague, in the Unseen.

Excuse me, but didn't Galadriel have the ring of air, and Elrond the ring of water?

No. Some think it would make sense, since Galadriel's ringstone was white and Elrond's blue. But Galadriel had Nenya and Elrond Vilya. "Nen" means "water" and "vilya" means "air, sky". "Nar" means "fire". "Nenya" and "Narya" mean something like "Watery" and "Fiery", according Helgeh Fauskanger.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ñólendil


This is not strictly true. Everything and everyone existed in both world, though mortals did not "live" in both worlds at once. They were not at anyrate physically aware of the Unseen world, as Elves were. But they had forms, even if vague, in the Unseen.

You're right of course, thank you for your correction.

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I like that theory, Artanis. Is that in the History of Middle Earth (which I havn't read), as I havn't heard it before.

I don't remember where I've read it. :) Anyone else knowing where it is? Ñólendil?

Originally posted by Ñólendil
"Nenya" and "Narya" mean something like "Watery" and "Fiery", according Helgeh Fauskanger.
Helge Fauskanger seemed as a Norwegian name, so I had to look him up :) and found his website Ardalambion (http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf/index.html). A good site for those interested in the tongues of Arda!

[Sween]

thats a good point Ganalf was worried it would effect him. well ive a feeling tom is simply illvater but thats my own wacked out theory.

[markedel]

The ring was supposed to give power as befitting to those who had it. The Istari had to stuggle to not reveal their innate power all the time. Tom on the other hand had no wish to use or reveal his power ever. He just wanted to enjoy the show. Unlike a mortal he has no inner, surpressed wish for anything else.

[Ñólendil]

I don't remember where I've read it. Anyone else knowing where it is? Ñólendil?

I'm not entirely sure myself. It seems to be a concept underlying all or most of the writings. It's behind the Lord of the Rings and many writings of the Silmarillion, and it can be observed or noticed in various essays.

[Archbob the Elder]

Originally posted by Sween
thats a good point Ganalf was worried it would effect him. well ive a feeling tom is simply illvater but thats my own wacked out theory.

This is also my own thought, either that or I think he is the Vala Aule or maybe some unknown valar that wasn't counted among the original like a good reincarnation of Melkor.

[Tar-Elenion]

JRRT wrote of the powers of the Rings in Letter 131:

The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.
The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them. He reckoned, however, without the wisdom and subtle perceptions of the Elves. The moment he assumed the One, they were aware of it, and of his secret purpose, and were afraid. They hid the Three Rings, so that not even Sauron ever discovered where they were and they remained unsullied. The others they tried to destroy.