The M.E. Accent

[trevkw]

So the movie is being filmed in New Zealand...

What kind of accent will the actors go for for each of the characters? As a citizen of the U.S., I'm not all that familiar with most of the actors. Am I to understand that most of them are from the U.K.? Can anybody give me some perspective on which characters might sound like what, and why (for example, I can't imagine Aragorn speaking aught but the King's English)?

P.S.: If ANY of the major characters speaks American English (Frodo from the U.S.'s deep south: "Ahm sa very tahrd, Sam...ken ah set fer a spell?"), I may spew popcorn all over the person sitting in front of me in the theater (re?). Anyone see "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves?" I love Costner for his baseball flicks, but I almost walked out on that one. It would have been better if he hadn't tried... :P

[Griff Nizz]

Many of the minor characters will probably have NZ accents seeing as how they will have been hired from here for the parts, but hopefully there will be a mix of accents. I mean people like Richard Gere can change their accent for a movie (The Jackal) so I don't see that some of the actors can't work on it so that they don't sound American. I have nothing against Americans but it just wouldn't go with the movie, unless someone like Butterbur was American :)

[Darth Tater]

I'm American, and I sure dont' wanna see no stinkin American accent y'all!

[Michael Martinez]

I wouldn't mind American accents if the movies were being made in the US with American actors. The movies SHOULD reflect the language and dialects of whatever culture makes them (to be faithful to Tolkien). Unfortunately, commercial film audiences are perceived to expect American accents in popular films, so there WILL be American accents for one or more of the cultures.

On the other hand, a heavy (if misguided) emphasis has been placed on giving Elves and Dwarves BRITISH (not New Zealand) accents. Tolkien would have objected to the practice, as he felt the accents for an adaptation should be comfortable for the target audience (but then, since the target audience is international, I suppose that would be a hopeless cause).

Personally, I think accents could be used effectively to indicate places of origin (which is what Jackson is doing) but people can't seem to agree on any specific combination of accents. People who want everyone to sound like they come from Oxford, Wales, and Scotland are missing the vast point of Tolkien's careful linguistic distinctions between the various regions.

To be faithful to Tolkien, you'd have to determine what the accents of the original languages and cultures were (impossible to do) and use THOSE, and they would NOT sound like British accents at all (with the possible exception of the Rohirrim, whose language Tolkien compared to ancient Anglo-Saxon in tone and accent, although not in form or vocabulary).

[Griff Nizz]

This whole point of what accent will be used is quite difficult to talk about because everyone thinks of the characters of having a certain accent. Of course each individual has a different idea and Peter Jackson has to pick accents that he thinks will be most popular. It's pretty obvious to me that the Dwarves are going to be stuck with a Scottish accent cause that's what everyone expects. Other than that though I have no idea what he's going to pick for other cultures, as long as there is a variation of accents I think that it will be fine. Hopefully he also uses dialects, having the men of Gondor with one accent, and a variation of that accent for other Humans, showing that they had been separated in the past but still speak similarly. That probably doens't make much sense to anyone but I know what I'm talking about :P

I still stick to Butterbur having an American accent though!

[gatito]

Just because some actors or from New Zealand does not mean that the characters will have Kiwi accents. Many actors that are from around the globe hide their accents to play certain parts. Very often I am surprised to learn that an actor is not from the US.

[K haylan]

Due to the recent uproar over JarJar's
accent, I would imagine a bit of care
would have to be extended when using
accents to underscore characterizations.

Most actors worth their salt should be
able to adjust their 'accent',and the
Kiwi cadence can be easily altered to
imitate an Irish lilt or a Yorkshire
patter.

K'haylan :)

[Gilthalion]

I am supposed to read THE HOBBIT aloud at the local Barnes & Noble this Fall, and then perhaps each Fall thereafter the three books of LOTR (conveniently before each movie).

In hopes that this will add to the discussion, and help me in a project, I humbly submit the following:

Practicing in front of my wife, I have just finished reading THE HOBBIT aloud for her. Took 10 hours over several nights. I am about to start LOTR. This is how it seems to be working out...

Some hobbits: Irish (Bilbo, Pippin, other Tooks)

Other hobbits: @#%$ney (Sam & Gaffer Gamgee) or Middle Class British (Frodo, Merry)

Elves: Upper Class British (It should have a Welsh feel, but I'm not that familiar or practiced at it.)

Riders of Rohan: Scottish

Dwarves: Swedish

Men of Gondor: Standard American

Orcs/Goblins: French (appropriate since Prof. Tolkien disliked the sound of French)

Other characters require special treatment. I'm afraid I rely on impersonations sometimes. Gandalf will always sound like John Huston to me and that is one thing that the Rankin Bass cartoons got right. Any suggestions? Please?

[Gilthalion]

Umm, under Other Hobbits, Sam and Gaffer Gamgee would be speaking a kind of London street dialect, West End, I think. (Never been there.) The dialect is called C-ckney, but ezboard kicked the word out in the previous post! Alfred P. Dolittle from MY FAIR LADY would be an example.

[bmilder]

Nice choices, but I can't help laughing at visions of "Swedish Chef Gimli" or an orc with a beret :)

[Fat middle]

i like your choices, but i´m not sure for the French for orcs. Remember that orcish has a lot of "u" in its words, and French people just cannot pronounce "u" as "u" should be pronounced. and no, it´s far from my intention to make a pun ;)

for me, orcish should sound more like German. although i recognize i cannot speak German, i don´t think this choice is based on the filmic prejudices of Germans being always the bad guys :p

[Film Hobbit]

The pronounciation of the names Tolkien used will be very important in how the movie plays... accents and dialects always seemed to be a intregal part of the books, even though you could only hear them in your mind... as I am sure Tolkien can. I like the picks you guys have here so far, though I'm not sure if Rohan should really be Scottish. German or French would suit the Orcs well... but for some reason the thought of French accented Orcs just feels right despite the problems with pronounciation of the U.

[IronParrot]

You know, after several readings of LOTR, every single time Sam's "voice" as I imagine it in my head based on how he is written gets more and more American... I'll try to find an example of what I mean, but... has anyone else noticed this?

[arynetrek]

here's their accents according the the mind of aryne ...

Frodo - upper-class english
Sam - yorkshire
other hobbits - choose from yorkshire, cawkney (who put that word in the censor?), or scottish
Aragorn - London with vaguely Spanish or Italian influences
Gimli - arabic
Elf women - welsh
Elf men (?!?)-
Boromir - like a rude american
Gandalf - London theater (or just steal Patrick Stewart's voice)
Rohan - eastern european
Gondor - corrupted London
Orcs - combine Klingon with russian
Gollum - one long hissing breath
Bombadil - undistinguished American
Eowyn - very, very slight german

aryne *

[arynetrek]

I'M AN ELF!
WOO-HOO!

awaiting Valinor,
aryne *

[Michael Martinez]

I would not try to affect accents while reading the story aloud. I think that would be very disatracting, and the chance of your making an error increases. All the jargon used by Tolkien for certain characters comes straight from England. If you're determined to use accents, you should use only English accents and dispense with the foreign ones.

Though I may seem to be contradicting myself, I think that if a single person tries to read the book aloud, the book should be read as naturally as possible so that the reader doesn't get in the way of the story.

[Fat middle]

perhaps a good choice would be an "historic performance", ie, reading it like Tolkien would have read it.

... and we have records of his readings. i have only heard a few fragments, but i think to remember he didn´t play accents though he played slightly change of voices specially for some characters.

has anybody hear his readings in full?

[noldo]

I think that the sindar and noldor should speak different accents. The language of the sindar was affected by Welsh, the second dearest language to Tolkien, and quenya as a matter of fact had a whole lot of Finnish to it.

[Gilthalion]

After reading THE HOBBIT aloud I appreciate the concern about doing different dialects and maintaining a performance. Difficult, but not impossible, and there seem to be an irreducable amount of bobbles anyway.

I've read aloud, doing live newscasts, infomercials, impersonations and narrations for years. This is performance art of the highest caliber. Not as difficult as reading the King James Bible aloud or Shakespeare, but very rewarding.

If you practice long readings, you find that both yourself and the audience become caught up so in the story that you rarely have to "think" of what you are doing. It just happens. Actors on stage feel the same thing. (Though I wish I had more rehersals under my belt for this project.)

I chose Upper Class English for Aragorn because he was raised by Elves, and I share the consideration that this of all dialects should reflect Tolkien's own. The Elvish languages are based on Welsh and Finnish. Impractical for me and the audience. (Aragorn tends to sound like Ronald Coleman.)

Tolkien readings are available on the Harper publishing site. He reads his poetry very quickly, doing the same with Entish. A little too quickly for an audience of Americans. He did a C-ockney (sort of) dialect for Sam and the Troll Song! (Which he sings!)

I chose Scottish for the Riders of Rohan because I can't do Old English or Anglo Saxon, or whatever Tolkien based it on. This also ties in with Irish for the Tooks. I must say, that the emotional speeches of these Riders (not to mention Eowyn) are really enhanced by a thick Scottish burr. (No, I won't do Scotty.)

As for Klingons, I'm thinking of Michael Dorn for Boromir.


OTHERS

Wormtongue: Peter Lorre

Saruman: I'll try Christopher Lee! Great casting!

Gandalf: John Huston

Barliman: Walter Brennan (but not as country) Someone thought he should sound American and I agree.

Head Healer in Minas Tirith: Robert Morely

Thank you all for your help, suggestions, and stray thoughts! Gimme more!

[Shanamir Duntak]

I know that Peter Jackson said humans would have a american accent but I don't remember for the other races... someone else knows?

[bmilder]

Well what exactly is an American accent? Naturally I don't consider myself to having an accent, and I don't think anyone really does :p . There's the newscaster voice, with perfect English. I think I'm probably closest to that ;) . There's the Southern drawl, and Midwestern speech, and New York accents.

[Gilthalion]

Actually, since we are talking about the English language, American speech is referred to as a dialect. An accent is an overlay of a foreign tongue. There are many American dialects. Standard American is pretty much the midwestern newscaster speak. There are many varieties of Southern and New England. There are Urban dialects, too. (Not to mention valleytalk, surfertalk, and the unmentionable dialects of Canada.) Then think of all the British dialects, and the Kiwi's and Aussies, too.

As for Men sounding like American's in the movie, I pretty much agree, if you are talking about Men of Gondor or Bree. They are of the "West," and worldwide, that is associated with America. I'm trying to be careful not to go country/western with anything. Standard will do.

My challenge comes in creating (and maintaining) different character voices for the Characters! I tried John Wayne for Boromir but it was too funny for words. Now I'm trying a modified Worf from Star Trek. Another failure was Ringo Starr for Pippin! (Now he is an Irish Took, like Bilbo picked up from his mother's side.) Would you believe that a little Clint Eastwood works for Faramir?

People seem amused by French for Orcs. Believe me, it works! (Think of the Frenchmen in Monty Python's Quest for The Holy Grail. I'm talking n-a-s-t-y sounding! Nothing beats French for that!)

Swedish (not as thick as the Swedish Chef!) works to me for dwarves since this is representative of the regional mythological basis for Tolkien's dwarves anyway.

Dwarves and Orcs should not speak the Common Tongue with a dialect, but rather with a "foreign" accent.

Many of my choices, quite frankly, represent the limits of my own abilities to mimic rather than what might be best.

As someone wrote in a previous post, if you can't do accents well, it's better not to do them at all! But if you can, then it richly enhances the experience.

[Quickbeam]

That whole image of 'Swedish Chef Gimli' has been cracking me up ever since I read it here.

"Boor dee bleem doy flur dee orky necky, coom dee bloor deeng flan goor boor DEE CHOP-CHOP!"

[Shanamir Duntak]

ARR... I hate to admit that a french accent would be funny for the orcs... your Monty Python point is so true (And that movie is so funny!). So i guess that's the best accent for those baddies.

[gatito]

Orcs: French, German, or Russian? Now Peter Jackson is going to have a big mess on his hand if he attemps anything like that. Stereotyping is not a good idea, and since the orcs are evil I doubt it would be a smart to make their speech sound like any modern day languangue.

I am guessing we will hear both Kiwi, and American (we do have accents to people of other countries ;) ) accents in the movie.

And IMHO the Orcs should have loud nasty voices :D

[Gilthalion]

It's not MY fault the French sound like Orcs!

[arynetrek]

what i said above concerned how their accents sounded (developed?) in my own mind, i wasn't trying to make suggestions for the movie. sorry if that misled anyone.

Worf as Boromir - great! and how could i not see that? (i'm a HUGE Trek fan). how about Avery Brooks (sisko) as Aragorn?

Swedish Chef Gimli - he can kill orcs, but can he clean, dress & cook them? Dinner at Aragorn's coronation: broiled Orc! (but i'd bet they taste so foul that Aragorn would then banish Gimli from Gondor for life!)

aryne *

[Gilthalion]

Only if you're another goblin! Gross! Maybe I should have said dwarves sound NORWEGIAN rather than Swedish!

I understand the point about stereotyped voices (shades of Jar Jar Binks, etc.) I certainly don't want to disrespect the French.

It might not even be their fault they sound like Orcs!

The problem I encounter reading aloud, is that there are so many characters from so many races, that it is necessary to provide different accents and dialects (not to mention character voices) just so that the listener is not confused. Mr. Martinez made an excellent point about the difficulties of using accents and dialects in performance. The possibilities that the Politically Correct may be upset is certainly another. But what are they going to say about Pipeweed and a cool mug of proper 1420?

By the way, it's confirmed now that I will read THE HOBBIT in September at the local Barnes & Noble. I know that this string was not started for that, but this discussion has helped me tremendously.

Even though you have all made fun of my Swedish Dwarves! (sniff)

Right now I'm going with Ronald Coleman for Aragorn. I'm on Chapter Four of FELLOWSHIP reading to my wife, so if anyone can come up with better, I'll try it out soon enough. Sisko and Worf would be too difficult for me to keep apart in scenes together. I don't know if I can even do Sisko. How about Piccard? (And NO! I will not attempt Shatner for the part! "Legolas! Target... the Nazgul!")

[Gilthalion]

Sorry to keep posting and I hope that it hasn't become a nuisance, but I just had to share this!

I got to the Old Forest, reading aloud to my wife last night. I still wasn't sure how to read Tom Bombadil.

He came out like a rhyming Santa Claus! Slightly old fashioned standard american dialect. Deep laughing voice.

And it seemed to work!
"Jolly Tom" = "Jolly Old St. Nick"

???

[trevkw]

Hey, now...keep in mind that there is no "real" version of spoken English...I don't hear my accent, either, but I'm sure someone from NZ would. Besides...the English have more of a claim to authenticity than we do.

French orcs, eh? Reminds me of the Tolkien meets Monty Python thread...

GRISHNAKH: Allo? Oo eez eet? Zees eez de castle of mah mastehr Saruman Loimbaaaaaaaa! Ah don' wanna talk to you no more, you silly Hhhhh-obbits!

'obbits?

:lol:

[Gilthalion]

It's official (at least under my roof), Aragorn sounds like Richard Burton. In reading to my wife, he started like Ronald Coleman, but wound up more like Burton with every sentence. (Not the drunken Marc Antony, but the regal King Arthur...) This seems to fit the range of Aragorn's personality and emotions better, to my ear at any rate.