Will there be songs in the movies?

[bmilder]

Will the characters break into song onscreen as they do in the pages? To some audience members, it may seem corny. Plus, the actors aren't being picked for their musical talents, so they might not be very good at singing. I think it might be best if they cut most of the songs, to move things along a bit and also so that the general audience doesn't get distracted. I think the Elves should sing their songs, but I don't think the hobbits need to sing.

[anduin]

Well, one Hobbit is going to have to get up on a table and sing at some point.......;)

[Fat middle]

yep. and hobbits won´t be the same without some "water hot" :)

[IronParrot]

Heh, I was actually going to ask that exact question here today... you beat me to it, bmilder :b

I'd say the songs were really one of the kind of things that made Tolkien's works as much of a work of genius as they are... the overall depth being the other big feature.

I cannot visualize having this movie without the tale of Beren and Luthien in the song that Aragorn recites in Fellowship chapter 11... even more so because of how Arwen's role has been expanded. Besides, the primary significance of Aragorn and Arwen's relationship is largely based on the parallelism to the tale of Beren and Luthien, as is noted several times in LOTR.

Perhaps they will be recited as prose, instead of given a melody - I think this would be most effective.

[anduin]

It would be fine with me if they were recited, but I can't imagine Frodo NOT singing on the table....that is what you usually do in pubs....sing. :)

[IronParrot]

That one being the exception, of course!

[Elanor]

THEY HAD BETTER SING! If the actors are tone-deaf, they can dub someone else's voice. THERE MUST BE SONGS!!!!!!!

[anduin]

..... Elanor has spoken......

;)

[Darth Tater]

TLOTR could never be trully good without "the road goes ever on"

[Michael Martinez]

I don't recall where I read this, but supposedly the characters WILL be breaking into song occasionally. Regard that as a rumor until someone can find it as a credible source, but it HAS been reported SOMEWHERE on the Web. For what it's worth.

[Niffiwan]

I can't imagine ze moviez wizout zat sad song zat actually made me cry when Boromir died. It waz ze saddezt part of LOTR for me. If you're wondering, what I like to do when reading LOTR, is to add various melodies zat I've heard in ze pazt to ze songz, whichever melody seemz appropriate. I sang ze Boromir song aloud in my head to an extremely sad tune, and ze effect waz great.
I dearly hope zat zey'll put zat song in ze movie; it goes well wiz it too.

[Darth Tater]

I hope the rumor is true, and I really hope they do the songs justice with the music they put to them

[IronParrot]

The music they put to them is the part I'd be most worried about.

[Elfling]

Ah IronParrot!! A good point you have there.
My feelings exactly... It would be a tragedy if "The Road Goes Ever On" were sang to the tune of "A Spoonful of Sugar". :-D

I trust that PJ will take good care of the music, but I really don't think that all or even most of the songs will be included; IMHO it would be too much of a drag for those of the audience who are not devoted Tolkien fans, as we are.

They have to include Frodo singing in the bar, as it is pivotal to the story (sorta), but seeing as how they cut Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights, you never can be sure what part of the story they're going to mangle next... :-(

[bmilder]

Yeah, the general audience wouldn't really go for all those songs. I suspect that the only singers will be the elves, and they can cast them to have good voices, and maybe "The Road Goes Ever On" will be sung at some point. Most of the songs aren't particularly essential to the story, so they'll be the first to go.

[IronParrot]

Cutting Tom Bombadil kinda kills off a great deal of the songs - but in order of importance and necessity, here's how I'd rank them.

1. The one Frodo sings in the Prancing Pony - absolutely essential.
2. The song as Boromir's remains are sent down the Anduin - I can't see how that would be done without it.
3. Beren and Luthien - if they're expanding on Arwen's role, to ditch this would almost be hypocritical.
4. At least something sung by Treebeard - to leave it out would be, hrm, hasty.

There are many others, but the above are really important, I must say.

[Darth Tater]

I actually think "The Road Goes Ever On" is more important then everything but the Prancing Pony table song, since it holds the story together so well.

[IronParrot]

Argh! How could I miss that!

[Yazad]

The biggest thing to worry about would be that "The Road Goes Ever On" will end up being a duet sung by Elton John and Mariah Carey!!

:)

[Fat middle]

Right! :lol:

[etherealunicorn]

Sorry I know I am a latecomer to this thread but I love your calls on the essential songs, Iron Parrot and Darth Tater (Darth, by the way, I gotta tell you, I love the nick--that's great!). But the Valar Forbid! I sure hope that Yazad is wrong on the singers(ugh!).

[gatito]

Hi everyone,

I read an interview with the director and he said there will be some songs to give the audience a flavor of Tolkiens poetry but don't expect alot of it.

Luv Always,
gat

[anduin]

Hi gatito, welcome to Entmoot! :)

Is that a pic of your cat? Very pretty. :)

[gatito]

Hi again audin,

I saw you on the other board :) Thanks about the cat though it is just a pic and not mine, I do have cats just not a scanner. :rollin:

Luv,
Gat

[Sahana the Elf]

Excuse me?! What about 'All that is gold does not glitter...' and 'Seek for the sword that was broken...'? THEY'RE two of the most important! And if they don't include 'Oliphaunt' I'll cry :(

Also, I started singing 'The road goes over on and on' as I walked home from school yesterday...

[Gilthalion]

I tried singing Boromir's funeral dirge (loosely) to "Greensleeves." It was sad.

No I mean the attempt was sad.

Tolkien actually chose to recite it rather than sing it, though he did sing Sam's "Troll Song."

[arynetrek]

i think that if the songs are included (& they'd better be...) they should be read like poetry instead of sung. a couple times in LotR Tolkien says that the songs were "chanted" rather than sung, & this way none of the songs will be ruined by bad singers, unfit music, etc.

and i don't know how they could to LotR without
- "all that is gold does not glitter..."
- everything on IP's list
- The Road goes Ever On
- random musical elf-voices in Imaldris & Lorien

and of course,
- A Elbereth Gilthoniel...

aryne *

[Gilthalion]

I'll be reading THE HOBBIT at the local Barnes & Noble beginning Sept 9th, and then LOTR beginning perhaps in January.

Although I've sung some of the songs (when very alone), I'm afraid of trying this in front of an audience. I'll have to recite them or chant them, though some almost suggest melodies, and certainly rhythms, just in the reading of them.

I haven't thought much of many of the songs I've heard performed on the internet (very few, I'm afraid).

Tolkien suggested that many of these songs had old rustic folk tunes, well known, and tried and true. I forgot the link, but you can hear Tolkien himself singing the Troll Song! He must have written many of the songs with some specific melodies in mind, or variations of the same kind.

Does anyone have a listing of Tolkien songs sung on the internet? How many of these are more or less authentic, I wonder?

[bmilder]

Yeah I knew the Troll melody before I heard Tolkien, it was a variation on a well known children's song.

Also, you probably haven't heard this one, but I always hear "Elbereth Gilthoniel" in my mind to the same tune as the Jewish song "Lecha Dodi." :p

[noldo]

I always thought of "My Heart Will Go On".

[Shanamir Duntak]

Beurk

[noldo]

And if James Horner's making the soundtrack...

[Film Hobbit]

If they do put the songs in, I hope they don't put many and they make them as short as possible. In my opinion... the little song breaks that Tolkien takes in the books are probably about the only thing in them I don't like. They are generally annoying and make for poor reading... and I anticipate they'd translate even more poorly onto the screen. I do understand why Tolkien put them in, but they got a bit excessive at times and were to long and to frequent for the limited purpose they served.

[Shanamir Duntak]

Even if he badly wanted to, I don't think Peter could put them all into the movie so don't worry too much about that!
:)

[arynetrek]

i've heard my mother sing the troll song to the tune of some english drinking-song, & there was a rumor floating around that all the songs were written to the tunes of old bar songs while Tolkien & CS Lewis were out at the local pubs.

bmilder - what's Lecha Dodi?

and if the likes of celine go anywhere near the LotR soundtrack, i'll have to do something truly evil to PJ.

aryne *

[Shanamir Duntak]

"Nul n'est prophète en son pays"

I "hate" Celine and agree with you Aryne!

[IronParrot]

Bad news, all. Ian McKellen says:

Q: "What are they going to do about all the songs in the books?"
A: "I am not certain but I think the songs will not feature as regularly in the film as they do in the novels."

Find it on:
www.mckellen.com/epost/l000616.htm (http://www.mckellen.com/epost/l000616.htm)

With a whole bunch of information which I'm reposting in a new thread.

[Shanamir Duntak]

That's not really a bad news according to me.
And that doesn't say if they'll be sang, recited...

[arynetrek]

"Nul n'est prophète en son pays" - could someone translate? i don't speak French.

i'll miss the songs if they go - they make the books unique. but they'd better keep Elbereth Gilthoniel... even if it's spoken (shouted?)

aryne *

[Shanamir Duntak]

"Nul n'est prophète en son pays"

"None can be prophet in his country" That's word to word translation. I'm sure you have another expression meaning the same thing but not worded that way. I just don't know it.

and for the songs, they make the BOOKS unique. They'd make for a bad movie if all included. That's sad but it's reality. But I hope they kept Elbereth Gilthonel!

[noldo]

I wonder who are we going to hear it from... Gildor, Arwen... Aragorn?

I'd say we'll hear Arwen singing it in Rivendell.

[arynetrek]

Liv Tyler singing? never heard her, but with what they're doing to Arwen, i'm worried...

and (in the book, at least) Sam "cries" Elbereth Gilthoniel in Cirith Ungol when Frodo's fallen :( - they'd better leave that in.

Shan - there is a similar expression in English, but i can't remember its exact wording.

aryne *

[noldo]

There's been stuff going on about mastering the voices of the Elves... To make them Elf-like.

I think this goes for Arwen and as well as others...

[Shanamir Duntak]

How will they master them?
Adding echo? :lol:

[noldo]

:lol:

Master of Ceremony!

[bmilder]

Ooh, in the "Dune" movie (that's frequently cited as what PJ should avoid for LotR! ;) ) remember they did those weird echo voices when the Bene Gesserit did their version of the Jedi Mind Trick? That was annoying.

[Shanamir Duntak]

Just think of Xenarwen echoing :lol:

[Grand Admiral Reese]

That movie version of the BG Voice technique was terrible. Anything to that effect should not be present, in any movie.

[Gilthalion]

The above mentioned quote in French, translated later in English, was spoken long ago in Aramaic, an ancient Hebrew dialect.

"And they took offence at him. But Jesus said to them, 'Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor.' And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith."
--Matthew 13:57-58

[Shanamir Duntak]

Thanx Gilthalion for the precision

[Gilthalion]

Just happened to know that one!