Minor characters: In or out, and how expendable?

[IronParrot]

Let's use this thread to talk about the "minor" characters of LOTR and how they'll be implemented in the movies. Essentially:

- Which are in, which are out.
- Which have their roles expanded, which don't.
- Which are unconfirmed, and how necessary or expendable they are.

So far, here's my take on these three points:

Bombadil - Out, sadly. It's a pity, because out of all the "minor" characters he was certainly one of the more important ones.

Goldberry - Well, if Bombadil's out, she's obviously out.

Barrow-wights, Old Man Willow - No word yet, but if they're in, how can they be implemented without Bombadil? So this is a "probably not". However, like I mentioned on the other thread, they'll also need to work around the minor detail of the Sword of the Barrow-downs that wounds the Nazgul.

Barliman Butterbur - I don't remember official word on him, but I'd say he's most certainly in. There WAS a report that Bree, at least, is in, right?

Bill Ferny - Hmm... it's not a real big deal to stick him in, so they should. However, for the same reason they might leave him out.

Nob and Bob - Why not?

Radagast - He won't appear, according to McKellen.

Lobelia and Lotho - They had better not cut the Scouring of the Shire - and if the Scouring is in (it had better be in!) then these two should be in too.

Will Whitfoot - Perhaps, for the same reason.

Fatty Bolger - Well, I'd say he's really important and certainly underrated. Let us not forget that he was the fifth hobbit who knew about the quest and helped sneak Frodo out of the Shire...

Farmer Maggot - E!Online said today that Maggot is a "don't know" but that they speculate he might just be Peter Jackson's cameo.

Haldir - I believe I read somewhere that he's in. Good.

Glorfindel - As far as I am aware, he's been replaced by Arwen.

Gildor - Oh please don't leave him out...

Arwen - We all know about Arwen.

Eowyn - I seriously hope she maintains her role as in the novel. I'm a bit concerned that Arwen is "stealing her thunder" so to speak.

Bill the Pony - They'd better not do without him. Even if Ferny is cut, the Fellowship still needs a pony assisting them until they get to Moria.

Well... what do you guys think about all this? Obviously, updates and opinions on these and other "minor" characters and how heavily involved in the film they are should go here... I'll add some more as I think of them...

[bmilder]

What about Ted Sandyman? And I wonder if they'll include that conversation with Sam at the beginning about the "walking trees" that could mean Entwives.

I'm sure they'll include Butterbur. Bill Ferny will probably be in it. As you stated, I really doubt the Wights are in it, unless Strider rescues them from the Downs or something ;)

[IronParrot]

Here's some more - as you'll notice, some of these aren't really "minor" minor, but rather just "not major", since I already listed a few of those (Bombadil, Eowyn, etc.)

Galadriel - In, of course. Please don't expand her role, please.

Celeborn - Ditto.

Treebeard - They haven't announced any casting for his voice yet (come on, James Earl Jones!) but I've already seen reports that Ents are in, and if Ents are in then so is he.

Quickbeam - He's definitely a "maybe" on both the confirmation and opinion front, with me...

The Mouth of Sauron - He's in. Good, because he's necessary.

Shelob - In and confirmed. THANK YOU.

Eomer - In... and I hope they don't cut his role and give too much of it to Eowyn as was rumored.

Snaga, Ugluk, Grishnakh, and all the other named Orcs: I haven't heard about them at all, but even if they're not referred to by name in the films, some of them will have to be in as recognizable, distinguishable characters. On a related note, will we see Eomer fight and defeat Ugluk? In the novel it was kind of a by-the-way, "off-screen" kind of event...

Gwaihir - Let's face it, he's essential. You can't really work around him. No word on him yet, though...

More to come - maybe.

[Fat middle]

okey, IP that's the last i wanted to hear: James Earl Jones for Trebeard. Yea, i know there's a poll about that at tor.n and that JEJ is winning... but Treebeard cannot sound as Darth Vader!!

and the second is Sean Connery: people has choosen him for Theoden, Denethor, Gandalf... and now for Treebeard. Please, i want a bit of originality

BTW, i voted for Heston (though he´d be a perfect Denethor ;) )

[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

I heard some rumors about some of the Orcs before, probably at TORN.


Btw, Paul Sutera will play Lotho Sackville-Baggins.

I really hope that keep Farmer Maggot and Fatty Bolger...

[IronParrot]

FM, I was thinking Treebeard could sound more like Mufasa from The Lion King, not quite Darth Vader...

It's just that JEJ is so... BASS...

Vin Diesel, maybe? Nah...

[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

I forgot to tell you that Brian Sergent will play Ted Sandyman...

[noldo]

What about Beregond? Isn't he rumored to be played by Nick Nolte? That's if his in, I mean.

[Film Hobbit]

I really hope they don't cut the Barrow-Wights, to me that was really one of the most exciting scenes in the first book... which is mostly a lot of skulking about.

[IronParrot]

Nick Nolte strikes me as a little old even for Beregond...

How about Hama? Any word on him? He's not essential but it's his death at Helm's Deep as well as the offscreen death of Theodred that clears the ranks for Eomer to ascend... although that can be worked around...

[Fat middle]

hmmm, yep, Mufasa is better than Vader ;)

What about Denethor? Are they going to leave him out? AFAIK he hasn't been cast yet... I think he's 100% essential with all his lines!!

[noldo]

LOL! .... Hmmmm. :D

I think that the guy who played the king Longshanks(sp?) in Braveheart would be a perfect Denethor.

[IronParrot]

Ah, Denethor.

I used to think Dustin Hoffman, maybe, but perhaps not...

Sean Connery, perhaps? (Heh, it seems Connery's name is thrown around for almost any viable role in LOTR...)

[Film Hobbit]

Whatever the case, I think we can all agree that Jason Alexander MUST play Wormtongue.

[noldo]

Absolutely. But Brad Dourif isn't a bad choice either.


Sean Connery could be Threebeard and so could James Earl-Jones. Then again, wouldn't it be cheasy to have the voice-actor of Vader playing an ent in a competing trilogy?

[IronParrot]

No, seeing how both Saruman and Celeborn will be in Star Wars, it won't be cheesy.

And Brad Dourif is WAY better than Jason Alexander for Wormtongue! Haven't you seen the guy in One Flew Over a Cuckoo's Nest? He's perfect!

(Of course, if Peter Lorre were still alive and in his prime, that's a different story. They should bring Peter Lorre back from the dead to play Wormtongue. But Dourif is the best choice alive.)

[noldo]

I meant that Threebeard having almost a same kind of voice with Darth Vader would be cheesy. It would be a cliché. ;)

[RKittle]

noldo has a point.
Dark Vader as Treebeard sounds as dreadful as James Bond as Gandalf (Yeek...how I hated the very idea of it)

[arynetrek]

anyone heard what they're doing with her role? i think they should leave her alone, especially with what they're doing to arwen <hiss>. but if arwen's going to be this woman-warrior character, she will overshadow eowyn (the book's real female "action hero") & that would be generally bad. how they handle eowyn will be pretty tricky to avoid her either going overboard or being underdone, but i hope they do justice to her. in my mind, she's not a minor character.

James Earl Jones as Treebeard? i don't think so - close, but not exactly right. i've been trying to think of someone who'd work, but can't think of the perfect person. Laurence Fishburne? not quite right either...

aryne *

[Grand Admiral Reese]

Connery or Jones would be good as Treebeard.

[IronParrot]

Like I said, I don't want Arwen stealing Eowyn's thunder, so to speak.

And as for Treebeard - I wouldn't mind Vin Diesel, personally, but his accent is way too strong and exotic even for Middle-Earth...

[Shanamir Duntak]

You're right about Eowyn, I starting to question myself about the arwen role? Will he really be so augmented? Maybe it's just a rumor the production won't let die because fans will be happier when they realise how they stuck with the real role of Arwen? In other words, could it just be disinformation to keep us on the edge?

[noldo]

Does this mean we'll get to see Radagast?! :D

[IronParrot]

It would be funny if leaving out Bombadil was a huge disinformation campaign...

As well as pleasantly surprising...

[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

Btw Ugluk is in. Nathaniel Lees will play him.

us.imdb.com/Name?Lees,+Nathaniel (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Lees,+Nathaniel)

John Leigh plays Háma

us.imdb.com/Name?Leigh,+John (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Leigh,+John)

[Fat middle]

IP, today i have seen the Lion King, and of course i've been analyzing each word of Mufasa. Definitely, i don't see JEJ as Treebeard. yes he has a nice voice and it's very bass as it should be, but it is too cold and i cannot hear wisdom in that voice.

for me it should be a more aged voice.

[arynetrek]

you people are raising false/premature hopes of mine with this "maybe it's a false-information campaign" thing!

bmilder - they couldn't have Strider rescue the hobbits from the barrow-downs - part of what showed Tom's power(?) was that the barrow-wights had no power over him, & i don't think they could give that kind of power to a mortal (as cool as Strider is). besides, they haven't met him when they're in the Downs. unless they re-write that (i hope not...they've done enough)

[Grand Admiral Reese]

Yes, it probably is false hope. But sometimes directors and their PR people like to play games with our minds, saying things will or won't be certain ways, and then tricking us.

[Shanamir Duntak]

I'd really like it if it was that. Just imagine, Arwen has her NORMAL role, Tom is in (with Goldberry :) ), Barrow-down too, Eowyn is the ONLY, female warrior...Etc.
That would be so cool!

[Fat middle]

IP, i miss two characters in your list:

-Halbarad (i don't think he'll be in :( )

-Prince Imrahil: he MUST be in. Who could be cast for this role? Sean Connery? :p

[arynetrek]

you people must really want Sean Connery in this movie - he's been suggested for so much already...

and, i've bene having some problems with my computer & EZcode lately - if an entire message shows up underlined or bolded or weird pieces of code appear in my messages, that's why.

aryne *

[IronParrot]

Forget Sean Connery...

Warwick Davis HAS to be in this film somehow...

[noldo]

He'd be perfect as Nob!

[Fat middle]

yay! you got it!! :D

[IronParrot]

It appears the story of Smeagol and Deagol will be done as a flashback, as Joel Tobeck has been cast into the role of the pre-Gollum Smeagol.

[Strider]

Hama?

[IronParrot]

Hama is the Second Marshal of the Mark. After both him and Theodred are slain, Eomer becomes the highest-ranking of the Rohirrim...

[Gilthalion]

All of you have said some pretty neat things!

I absolutely agree about Peter Lorre for Wormtongue!

Treebeard in my mind is a s-l-o-w Santa Claus.

If you want Sean Connery for anything, he should play King Theoden! (I think of the Rohirrim with a Scotts accent anyway.)

I wish that they would expend no character, however seemingly insignificant. Alas! Such is the way of screenplays and cinematic adaptations.

[IronParrot]

Yeah, well the current guy (forgot his name) for Theoden isn't bad either... he had potential in Titanic though we never got to see him shine...

Hmm... I'm still thinking about who would be great for Denethor.

[IronParrot]

(Sean Connery?) :p

[IronParrot]

You know, since we talk about Connery so much, I think he deserves his own thread. I'm starting one now.

[Gilthalion]

In my readings, I've tried the voice of John Houseman for Denethor. If he were alive, he'd do the part justice, I think.

John Houseman played Professor Kingsfield on "The Paper Chase," a movie and television series from a past age.

He also did commercials for an investment house, "They get their money the old fashioned way: they EARN it!"

I'm off to the Connery thread!

[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

Gamling is in! One more minor character...

[Shanamir Duntak]

Refresh my memory... who is Gamling?

[Fat middle]

he's that old rohyrrin that welcome Theoden at the Hornburg and afterwards he helped Gimli on the Deep and took refuge with him at the caves.

[Shanamir Duntak]

Thanx... I must start the reading of LOTR again... it's so far!