does Elrond seem to hate Aragorn?

[midnightflame]

in the book Elrond seemed to like Aragorn, But in the movie he seemed to think Aragorn was some traitor or something what do you think?:confused:

[Willow Oran]

Welcome to the Moot! I don't think Elrond hates Aragorn, He's Aragorn's foster father. But I think Elrond would certainly feel a little resentment towards Aragorn for takin Arwen away from him. The Elrond in the movie is much more... annoyed with the world in general than the Elrond in the book is.

[midnightflame]

willow oran i am YOUR COUSIN WILL YOU ANSWER ME I CANT TAKE IT ANY MORE PM ME PLEASE. AND YES MY OPINION IS THAT eLROND JUST LOVES aRAGORN A LITTLE:rolleyes:

[Cirdan]

Elrond is a "Smith". They hate everybobdy!:D

Welcome to the Moot!:)

[Renille]

In the book, too, Aragorn had to prove himself a true king, and thus worthy of Arwen before Elrond would let him have her. That was pretty much what happened in the movie too. (We really aren't supposed to be talking about the movie in here, though...)

But like Willow said, Elrond had admitted Aragorn into his home for years. I do not believe that there was any hate in that particular relationship. (At least, he gave up Arwen with no hard feelings.:) )

[Cirdan]

Arwen made a sacrifice, too. Dad would want it not to be wasted.

[IronParrot]

Overprotective father-in-law. That's all there is to it.

[Jador]

Originally posted by IronParrot
Overprotective father-in-law. That's all there is to it.
I agree IP,Also loking at other characters ie Elladan and Elrohir,they didn't seem to resent Aragorn and even rode south to help him in his time of need,(surely not without thier fathers blessing) also Grandma-in-law Galadriel welcomed and honoured Aragorn and the fellowship in Lorien and gave them great gifts. Indeed all of Arwens family wanted the quest(and Aragorn himself) to succeed,and aided them accordingly,but without getting to involved I might add!
As Renille said Aragorn still had to prove himself and although he gave him the shards of Narsil and the ring of Barahir he withheld the sceptre of Annuminas untill Aragorn had done so..

[osszie]

in the movie (such as it is) Elrond seems to have a very low opinion of all humans............and blames them for much of the state of middle earth at that time....................he seemed far more bitter than the wise Elrond in the books:(

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by osszie
in the movie (such as it is) Elrond seems to have a very low opinion of all humans............and blames them for much of the state of middle earth at that time....................he seemed far more bitter than the wise Elrond in the books:(
Er.. just a though.. but maybe it's the face in the movie (Agent Smith) that seems to be associated with anti-humanity. Y'know.. maybe within our subconscious, the Matrix theme has spilt over into the LotR theme and we associated the face of Hugo Weaving with a vicious anti-man. :rolleyes:

[Snowdog]

Being that this is books discussion, when I read all there was on Aragorn, Arwen, Isildur, and Elrond's part in it, I thought Elrond did have a certain disdain for the Edain, and the line of Isildur in particular (I was rather suprised and happy that P.J. picked up on that with the Last Alliance scenes in the movie).

Then, you have Elrond at Rivendell since the war in Eregion in the Second Age, and he is close to the Kingdom of Arnor, and all the Kings of the line of Isildur, and Aragorn II's father ArathornII riding off and getting killed while Aragorn is young, and Gilraen (sp?) moves to Rivendell, and Aragorn grows and Elrond's daughter and he takes to each other.... yes, Elrond does seem to dislike Aragorn... I dont think he hated him though. He just set the bar at the level where he would accept Arwen marrying Aragorn, for he knew it would be the the sundering of his and Arwens relationship forever as she chose mortality.

[Groin]

Hey,
I just joined up.
Well I think that Elrond slightly resented Aragorn
because Arwen was giving up her imortality for him.
It must occur to Elrond that he might live hundreds of more years
after his daughter died because she fell in love with Aragorn. I think I would be pretty mad too.:)

[olsonm]

Originally posted by Renille
In the book, too, Aragorn had to prove himself a true king, and thus worthy of Arwen before Elrond would let him have her. I don't think that's true. Arwen and Aragorn made their betrothal. It was their decision. Elrond accepted it but never considered Aragorn "worthy" of her for one simple reason; their marriage would mean Arwen's death. His admonition to Aragorn was about the responsibility their union would entail. Their union was clearly fated and, as such, it must have been for a great purpose. Elrond was reminding Aragorn what that purpose would be (remember, it was known that the final battle with Sauron was coming and that Aragorn would play a large role in it.).
In other words; Aragorn didn't have to become king to be worthy of Arwen, but he did have a responsibility to become king (or die trying) before they married in order to fulfill the potential of their union.

I don't think he was mad at Aragorn, but he was saddened by Arwen's choice.

[Faramir]

NO! Elrond HATES Aragorn! He wants to roast him on a spit! He wants to kill him!!! Woe betide Aragorn, for none withstand the power of the wielder of Vilya!!!Doom!Doom!DOOM!!!






















Whew, got a little carried away...:D :D :D

[azalea]

Well, he's also an elf, and elves are ambivalent (sp?) about men in general, since they spell the downfall of elves in the end. I guess.

[Faramir]

Elves are predjudiced against all races and consider them inferior.
:mad: Bad elves.


P.S. Does anyone like my sig???

[Rána Eressëa]

It's pretty long. ;)

[cassiopeia]

In the appendices it says that Elrond loved Aragorn. The movie has no relevence to this discussion.

[midnightflame]

aragorn yes no yes no yes no YESSSSSSS I WOULD WANT HIM AS A BOYFRIEND Alas <gasp> he's already taken:( :mad:

[TinuvielChild]

This discussion is pretty much finalized, everyone's summed up my feelings pretty well, but there were one or two things I wanted to say:

Great Eru, another Seattle-ite?!? They're invading!! Someone run for aid from Rivendell!! (Sorry, midnightflame, it's just that Willow Oran, One, Tanoliel, and Eruviel Greenleaf are all also from Seattle. If I missed anyone, please don't turn me into anything...*gulp* unnatural)

and...

Cool sig, Faramir. A tad long, but I really liked the conversation between the Gaffer and the Ringwraith!

[Menelvagor]

If taken as a whole, Elrond's lot in life really doesn't seem so great. He loses his wife (though he'll see her again eventually) get's to witness and be powerless in the choices Isildur made, and then he loses Arwen. Also, he lost his brother (twin? my memory is twitching) to mortality too, not much is said about it, but that must have been painful, and made Arwen's choice all the worse. Poor Elrond. :(

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Faramir
Elves are predjudiced against all races and consider them inferior.
:mad: Bad elves.
Now really, isn't that a tad prejudiced of *you* to say? Not *all* elves are xenophobic snobs. :p

Oh, and were Elrond and Elros twins? I always assumed they were because of the similar names....
Did you guys ever notice there's a lot of twins in the elven family trees? Genetics, I guess.

[Radagast The Brown]

do elrond and elros tweens? I don't know, I never thouhgt about that. could be, but I think they weren't tweens.

elves didn't like the men because he fighted with the enmy in the wars, not because there are snobs, and elrond do like the men.

[Sween]

elrond would have a bittersweet realtionship with aragon allthough he did help bring him up he isnt one of his children so there will not be as strong a bond. Let us not forget that Elrond is aragon step dad (a tricky realtionship at the best of times) and by him and arwen falling in love he has sentanced her to death in a way. this could tick elrond off just a tad and probably wished that they had never met. he set pretty steep targets for the young lad to win her become king and rid the world of evil. its kida like that south park where kyle has to bring democracy to cuba to go to a gig and when he does his perents are not happy.

[Archbob the Elder]

Elrond stated that "there may be a shadow between us now" but he does not hate Arargorn. He think that if Arargorn defeats Sauron and Becomes King of both Arnor and Gonder, they his daughter's sacrifice will have been worthy.

[Nurvingiel]

Elrond lived for ... a really, really long time [memory!], you can't just look at all the crappy bits in his life. It just so happens that the crappy bits were historical and important.
It must have been hard on him to see his brother Elros choose mortality, but Elros made an active choice, it wasn't sad.
It was way worse when Celebrian died.
But Elrond it way tougher than you or I, we can't conceive how tough he is!
Arwen herself is ~2700 years old, she's an adult and Elrond respects her choices. For any Half-elf, the ability to choose mortality is part of them. It isn't an accident. Accidents are sad because they are shocking, that doesn't apply here.
So because it's not sad or horrible for a Half-elf to choose mortality, Elrond doesn't hate Aragorn.
Elrond only hates evil things, not his allies.

[Earniel]

I don't think Elrond hated Aragorn, he did raise him as a son and I believe he also loved Aragorn as a son. But I can understand why he wanted Aragorn to become king before marrying Arwen. Arwen was the evenstar of her people and I doubt Elrond saw it fitting for her to marry a mere Dunedain chieftain. He wouldn't have wanted Arwen to lead a mortal life as a ranger's wife in the unhospitable and dangerous wildernis. Immortality is something that isn't thrown away lightly. Above that Arwen could be just the incentive Aragorn needed to continue and reclaim his throne. And then there is the parallel with Lúthien and Beren.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by olsonm
I don't think that's true. Arwen and Aragorn made their betrothal. It was their decision. Elrond accepted it but never considered Aragorn "worthy" of her for one simple reason; their marriage would mean Arwen's death. His admonition to Aragorn was about the responsibility their union would entail. Their union was clearly fated and, as such, it must have been for a great purpose. Elrond was reminding Aragorn what that purpose would be (remember, it was known that the final battle with Sauron was coming and that Aragorn would play a large role in it.).
In other words; Aragorn didn't have to become king to be worthy of Arwen, but he did have a responsibility to become king (or die trying) before they married in order to fulfill the potential of their union.

I don't think he was mad at Aragorn, but he was saddened by Arwen's choice. I agree. But Elrond wasn't sad only for the loss he himself would encounter. He also feared that his daughter's choice would bring her deep sorrow in the end, that she would find the gift of Iluvatar to Men hard in the hour of her parting with Aragorn. Elrond called Aragorn his son, he loved him and told him so. I even think he was sorry he had to deny Aragorn to marry Arwen unless he had become king of Arnor and Gondor.

[Cirdan]

I think Arwen gave up her immortality and beyond that it is never certain who will die first.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Artanis
I agree. But Elrond wasn't sad only for the loss he himself would encounter. He also feared that his daughter's choice would bring her deep sorrow in the end, that she would find the gift of Iluvatar to Men hard in the hour of her parting with Aragorn. Elrond called Aragorn his son, he loved him and told him so. I even think he was sorry he had to deny Aragorn to marry Arwen unless he had become king of Arnor and Gondor.

Why would he have to become King first?



Also, even though you can't be sure who would die first, I bet it would be Aragorn. Mortal Half-elves are pretty long lived, take Elronds brother Elros who chose mortality and lived for 500 years.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Cirdan
I think Arwen gave up her immortality and beyond that it is never certain who will die first.
There was some sort of prophecy that she would not die until "she had lost all that she had gained" by her choice, thus it appears she was fortold to outlive her husband.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Why would he have to become King first?I think Elrond wanted to give Aragorn a strong incentive to fight for his kingship. If Arwen and Aragorn had been allowed to marry at once, Aragorn would have been content, having gained all that he desired in life. As it were, Aragorn was forced to take up his inheritance, and thus become one of the main enemies of Sauron.

[Nurvingiel]

What you say makes sense Artanis, except I think Aragorn was a huge enemy of Sauron before he became King as well.

In The Two Towers, he strove with Sauron with the Palantir. At that point, was he actively trying to become King, or simply aiding the quest?

[markedel]

While the union of eldar and man are supposed to be signifigant events. The restoration of the realms in exile is signifigant.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
What you say makes sense Artanis, except I think Aragorn was a huge enemy of Sauron before he became King as well.Yes he was. But I think it wasn't until the quest with the Fellowship that he put himself forward as the heir of the throne, surely bidding his time.In The Two Towers, he strove with Sauron with the Palantir. At that point, was he actively trying to become King, or simply aiding the quest? I think it was both. Trying to become king meant aiding the quest, and vice versa. He revealed himself to Sauron as Isildur's heir, assuming Sauron would think, or fear, he had got the Ring. By that he managed to turn Sauron's attention utterly towards the war at Minas Tirith, and away from Frodo and Mount Doom.

[The Last Ranger]

i doubt that he could've hated him because he adopted him and because he allowed him to stay in Rivendell, it may be he was peeved because he was there when Isildur had a chance to destroy the ring, or maybe he just didn't want his daughter to marry a Man

[Nurvingiel]

So, you're saying that he wanted to become King the whole time, he was just waiting for the right moment?

I think more that he was about ninety percent sure of his goal, and then helping the fellowship gave him the little push he needed.

It's easy for anyone to become used to their way of life, inaction is easier then facing huge obstacles. This doesn't make Aragorn bad, it's simply human nature. Or Elf nature... Hobbit nature... etc.

[Linarryl]

I think that Elrond does like Aragorn, but he doesn't want Arwen to wed a mortal and die! I think he wants Arwen to go with him. Elrond still likes Aragorn. He has to! After all, he was Aragorn's foster parent! But Aragorn does deserve to have Arwen. He troed really hard! I mean he tried to rule all and be very brave and stong just so he could marry Arwen!

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
So, you're saying that he wanted to become King the whole time, he was just waiting for the right moment? I think he was proud of his inheritage and high lineage, but in his younger days didn't feel ready to take up kingship, even if it were offered to him. He was patient and used his years well, educating himself by journeying and getting to know all sorts of people, gathering knowledge and strength. At one time he was actually serving in the army of Gondor.

For the history of ME it was important that Arwen became Aragorn's spouse, and queen of Gondor. It was the beginning of the dominion of Men, and Arwen brought a renewed Elvish strain into the line of the heirs of Isildur. Elrond saw this, and knew it was his fate to be separated from his daughter, to the benefit of Men.

[mirial]

Originally posted by Cirdan
Elrond is a "Smith". They hate everybobdy!:D

Cirdan, I too wondered why a Agent Smith acted to dislike Aragorn.

I believe in theback of ROTK that it gives an account of Aragorn and Arwens meeting and Aragorns child hood...read that for better understanding.

[Firekitten2006]

In the back of ROTK it has an explanation. Aragorn and Arwen met as children. Well, Arwen was of course probably older (considering the Elf thing), but they were young. Aragorn liked her, told his mom, and then something happened, dont know. I just really remember taht he lived in Rivendell with Elrond and Elrond pretty much adopted him as a son. After they got older Aragorn started being strider and then him and Arwen would meet occasionally at Rivendell if I remember right.

Elrond did not hate Aragorn. I do know that in the movie he seems pretty mean. Just a pretty cranky person in general. I mean in the book you picture him wise, old, and possibly sad and tired, but NEVER mad. :)

[midnightflame]

i agree in the book aragorn anf Elrond seem to have a small father, son relationship, and it seems that Elrond excepts the fact that Arwen fell in love with Aragorn, but you know if i were elrond i would definatly have a problem with the giving up of immortality. BUT arwen loved Aragorn enough to sacrifice the life of her people and whats comfortable to her in order to be with the man she loves.

but in the movie Elrond seems like he hates Aragorn that Aragorns a nasty old human whos gonna die in a few years ( which he really doesnt die in few years he was what? 200 210?)
but it would be nice if hugo weaving who played Aragorn or peter jackson could have made it seem a little more like the book because ya know the Elrond in the movie kind of freaks me out.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by Firekitten2006
In the back of ROTK it has an explanation. Aragorn and Arwen met as children. Well, Arwen was of course probably older (considering the Elf thing), but they were young. Aragorn liked her, told his mom, and then something happened, dont know. I just really remember taht he lived in Rivendell with Elrond and Elrond pretty much adopted him as a son. After they got older Aragorn started being strider and then him and Arwen would meet occasionally at Rivendell if I remember right.


Aragorn was young (but already an adult) when he met Arwen for the first time, but she was not young at all (by the human point of view at least), she was born in the year 241 of the Third Era and Aragorn in 2933…

Speaking of a couple with an age difference ;)

[Elrénia]

I think Elrond might show some resentment to men generally as Isildur betrayed the free peoples by not destroying the ring. I think that he might be kinder to Aragorn as he is his foster-father and he knows(I think)that heritage does not equal destiny.