Eagle Size

[webwizard333]

Just how large do you visualize the eagles in the Hobbit to be? It's little surpirse that they can carry a hobibt or a dwarf as both races are small, but they could carry Gandalf too. I think of them without their wings to be roughly the size of a horse.

[Radagast The Brown]

ammm...actually, I never tried to imagine how ther eagles looked like....

I think the size of them was - lets see. I thought they were smaller then what you said but now. Without the wings, they had to be as a horse or bigger, because if they would be smaller the weren't able to carry Gandalf. So I guess they were as a cow, just less fat... :p

[webwizard333]

And minus the legs. :D

[The Warden of the Keys]

Originally posted by webwizard333
Just how large do you visualize the eagles in the Hobbit to be?
We are given Thorondor's wingspan as 30 fathoms (roughly 180 feet).

[Celandine]

When I was reading The Hobbit I always imagined the eagles to be huge. I imagined the wingspan would be about 200 feet. :D

[The Warden of the Keys]

The American Bald Eagle (at its largest) is 3 feet long, has a 7' wingspan and weighs 12lbs.

We know that Thorondor's wingspan was 180 feet.....

Based on that ratio (7 to 180), Thorondor's body length would have been 78 feet and his weight would have been 308lbs.

Any eagles that the Bilbo or the Fellowship saw would have been smaller than these measurements. Thorondor was the King of Eagles and called the mightiest bird that ever lived.

[Radagast The Brown]

And minus the legs. :D You are probably right. :D
When I was reading The Hobbit I always imagined the eagles to be hugeAnd you were right... they were huge, if The Warden of the Keys is right.

[Spock]

Big birds, big birds, don't look up.

[SamwiseGamgeeOTS]

If any of you have seen Jurassic Park 3, then you will know what I'm talkin about. I pictured the eagles (during a re-read) about the size of the terodactils ( spelling.) B/c those where pretty large. but, if the warden of the keys is right about the 30 fathoms, then I'm gonna need to chage my image of the eagles.

[The Warden of the Keys]

Originally posted by SamwiseGamgeeOTS
but, if the warden of the keys is right about the 30 fathoms, then I'm gonna need to chage my image of the eagles.
This is directly from the Silmarillion.....The Return of the Noldor
Thorondor, King of Eagles, mightiest of all birds that have ever been, whose outstretched wings spanned thirty fathoms]

[barrelrider110]

Originally posted by Spock
Big birds, big birds, don't look up.

LOL:D

My thoughts precisely!

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by SamwiseGamgeeOTS
but, if the warden of the keys is right about the 30 fathoms, then I'm gonna need to chage my image of the eagles.I didn't imagine the eagles so big too. it looked too big to me... but if Tolkien said so, we have to agree and to "change our minds".

[Ñólendil]

Folks, you can't base it on First Age Eagles. Gwaihir would be a better idea. Gwaihir had a wingspan of 30 feet, which is much smaller that that of Thorondor's.

Not all the Eagles of the Hobbit need even be this large, however.

Tolkien drew an Eagle picture for the Hobbit once, it depicts the Eagle who carried Bilbo and Dori: Click here to view it. (http://imgfan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/tolkien/birdlord.jpg)

[Khamûl]

I've never really thought about it. I guess that I picture them with a wingspan of about 15 - 20 feet. I think that that might be large enough to carry some dwarves and a hobbit, with the largest and strongest eagle carrying Gandalf.

[Radagast The Brown]

I think that that might be large enough to carry some dwarves and a hobbit, with the largest and strongest eagle carrying Gandalf.I think that two dwarves are heavier then one Gandalf. Gandalf wasn't so heavy, he was little for a man or an elf.
now I have to imagine even bigger eagles... Do anyone know what was the wingspan of the eagles from the first age?

[Christiana]

In the TA, Gwaihir the Windlord ruled over the Eagles of ME. Though he was not the size of even the least of the Eagles of the FA, by the measure of the TA he was the greatest winged being in that day.

[Radagast The Brown]

This mean nothing. I knew all this. I meant: do anyone knows what was the wingspan of them? how many feet?

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I think that two dwarves are heavier then one Gandalf. Gandalf wasn't so heavy, he was little for a man or an elf.Yeah, but in my imagination it's so much cooler to have Gandalf riding the biggest and most majestic eagle.:D

I don't really know what the average size was for eagles of the First Age, but according to The Warden of the Keys, Thorondor, who lived during the First Age and was the greatest of all eagles, had a wingspan of about 180 feet.

[Radagast The Brown]

Thorondor wasn't the greatesr eagle in the First age. He was the greatest in the third age.

And Gandalf did rode on the biggest eagle. he did rode on Thorondor, no? I think so, if I remember right.

[Spock]

Aerodynamics and such have no hold on works of fantasy.

[Khamûl]

I have to disagree with you, Radagast. The Silmarillion is an account of the First Age of Middle Earth. From the chapter "The Return of the Noldor":Now even as Fingon bent his bow, there flew down from the high airs Thorondor, King of Eagles, mightiest of all birds that have ever been, whose outstretched wings spanned thirty fathoms; Since that happened in the First Age, Thorondor was the mightiest eagle of the First Age. I think that it was Gwaihir who carried Gandalf. In "The Field of Cormallen" in The Return of the King, Gandalf says, "Twice you have borne me, Gwaihir my friend." The only time other than when Gandalf came back to life at Zirak-zigil is in the Hobbit when the eagles took the company out of the trees. Keep in mind that the eagles haven't yet carried Gandalf to rescue the Sam and Frodo from Mount Doom.

[Ñólendil]

And Gwaihir's wingspan was 30 feet.

[Diaxion]

Well they can lift a Hobbit, through elf but I think they be big enough for someone to ride on the back of them

[The Lady of Ithilien]

And Gwaihir's wingspan was 30 feet.

Huh? Sorry -- I missed where this came from.

[Christiana]

Originally posted by Khamûl
I think that it was Gwaihir who carried Gandalf. In "The Field of Cormallen" in The Return of the King, Gandalf says, "Twice you have borne me, Gwaihir my friend." The only time other than when Gandalf came back to life at Zirak-zigil is in the Hobbit when the eagles took the company out of the trees. Keep in mind that the eagles haven't yet carried Gandalf to rescue the Sam and Frodo from Mount Doom.



youve forgoten Orthanc.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Let's use the Pythonesque POV here. Your basic coconut weighs, what, 2 to 3 pounds? The ability of a swallow to carry it is controversial, but it's not a big deal to an eagle. The American Bald Eagle (at its largest) is 3 feet long, has a 7' wingspan and weighs 12lbs. Good point, and they can carry about half their weight (1) Thus, if we know what weights the eagles in The Hobbit carried, we can get an idea of their overall size.

An eagle carried Dori and Bilbo apparently without effort (although Bilbo was upset at the time and might not have noticed their eagle was falling behind the others). And we also know that an eagle brought up "a small sheep" for the travelers to dine on. Which weighed more, the sheep or Dori/Bilbo?

Encarta reportedly says that an adult sheep weighs between 165 and 440 pounds (2), so let's assume the small sheep weighed 165 pounds. My guess is that Dori/Bilbo weighed less, but we can do better than a guess.

Dwalin's cloak fitted Bilbo well enough for him to wear it throughout the adventure (he brought it home and stored it in mothballs); it was only a little bit too big. So it's safe to assume hobbits are only a little bit smaller than dwarves. Maybe we can also assume that an adult hobbit who has been imbibing enough Ent draughts to have grown noticeably would be the same size as a dwarf.

If that's true, then all is clear. Beregond said Pippin appeared to be "a lad of nine summers or so." The optimal height for a nine-year-old boy is 4 feet, 1 inch and weight 46.9 pounds. (3) Let's assume a similar height and weight for Dori, then. Bilbo would have been slightly smaller and weighed a bit less, but even if their weights matched, the eagle would only have been carrying 94 pounds, nowhere near the weight of that sheep.

Right. The eagle that lifted the sheep, then, weighed some 330 pounds, and that gives us a bird 82-1/2 feet long and with a wing span of 192-1/2 feet.

Oh-oh. Thorondor's wing span was "only" 180 feet [by comparison, the wing span of a B-1A bomber is just over 150 feet (4)].

Hmm . . . .

OK, maybe Bilbo erred -- he hadn't eaten in days, his head was in a spin because of the height, and he'd already been rambling on about storks and forks. Maybe it was a lamb, not a small sheep.

Your basic prize lamb weighs between 120 and 130 pounds (5). That gives us an eagle somewhere between between 60 and 65 feet long and with a wing span of 140 to almost 152 feet. Given the long time span between their time and Thorondor's, I'd go with the lower numbers. Still, that's a big bird.

Big birds, big birds, don't look up. Yep.

All notes randomly gathered during a quick Google this morning; I can't vouch for any of them:
(1)http://www.twilightbridge.com/hobbies/festivals/independence/nationalbird.htm

(2)http://www.ubcbakersfield.org/sermons/ubc.ts.8.26.01.htm

(3)http://www.medindia.net/patients/calculators/ht_wt_chart.asp

(4)http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-1a.htm

(5)http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/ada/lambweigh.htm

[Christiana]

Dwarves dont have the same height-weight ratio that humans do.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

The word "ratio" makes me cringe, though (g). Had first attempted the sort of technical sci-babble M. Python indulged in re: sparrows, but a Net search quickly revealed that aerodynamics types do not speak the same English as the rest of us -- I hadn't a clue what they were talking about. Maybe one of the pilots among us might be able to do something in that vein...assuming we can work out this height:weight ratio business.

Certainly the physical proportions are similar. You're saying dwarves are denser (maybe more muscle mass)?

[Christiana]

i believe they weigh almost as much as we do.i do love mp though:D :D

[Duddun]

ya there probably the same height,