Arwen a golddigger? [Archive]

Heather Wooltoes

06-10-2002, 05:51 PM

Does anyone else wonder why Arwen didn't just jump on a horse and elope with Aragorn? Fer Chripes sake! The gal is almost 3000 yrs. old! Why does she let pa tell her how to live her life? Aragorn seems completely capable of building a home, killing dinner and chasing off baddies so what more does she want?

Obviously, the little gold digging tart wants to be queen.

Any thoughts?

Elf Girl

06-10-2002, 05:53 PM

Maybe she liked to respect her father's wishes, and anyway, the time was little to her, she's an ELF!!

Heather Wooltoes

06-10-2002, 06:08 PM

Shes almost THREE THOUSAND YEARS OLD. What is the Elvish age of consent anyways? Time might not mean anything to her but geez....she has to know Aragorns clock is ticking. By the time they did get hitched she'd had him on the hook for over thirty years with no date set or even a firm commitment. He did need an heir you know....just in case he didn't manage the whole King thing.

What is it with Elrond anyways? male pig?....or maybe the whole "daughter involved with his (foster) son" creeping him out?
Can't really blame him for trying.

Lizra

06-10-2002, 06:49 PM

Aragorn couldn't just up and get married anytime he wanted. He had BIG plans for himself and many were depending on him to fufill his destiny. Getting married, having a home, possibly children, etc. would have prevented him from the intense duties of being a ranger and becoming king. They were being mature and waiting till the time was right!

Menelvagor

06-11-2002, 12:32 AM

Lizra's right, even if he wasn't king, he was still Cheiftan of the Dunedain, and he couldn't just up and leave. If they eloped Elrond would be sure to come after him (little upstart, stealing my daughter...) so they couldn't stay with the Dunedain or he would find them.

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-11-2002, 03:17 AM

Maybe she just loved him...I don't think any of the elves, especially at that point, really cared for fame and wealth and all that...they were fading. Why would she care?

Ërendil

06-11-2002, 05:14 PM

I don't think that elven minds work like that; thinking of nothing but wealth and fame. Elves were pure so Eruviel is probably right; she did love him.

Rána Eressëa

06-11-2002, 05:43 PM

I have no doubt in my mind they both loved each other. And like everyone said, they couldn't just jump up and get married - there were far too many more important things that controlled the fate of their existance going on at the time. ;) And before that Aragorn had yet become king - I think that was just an honor thing of Elrond's.

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-11-2002, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Ërendil
I don't think that elven minds work like that; thinking of nothing but wealth and fame. Elves were pure so Eruviel is probably right; she did love him.

Not quite. . .I know you agree with me, but really, elves are not entirely without wish for power. They seem much more pure in LotR, because their time in Middle Earth is ending, and I think, compared to humans, they are more "pure" (and I don't really like using that word, but oh well) for that reason, among others, but elves are far from perfect. Just read the Silmarillion.
But I still hold with what I said; she simply loved him, she was not after his money/power.

Ërendil

06-12-2002, 03:59 PM

Oh, right, sorry. Note to self: read the Silmarillion and not just get to the valaquenta, give up and pick up LOTR.
I couldn't think of a better word so pure had to do.

Blackheart

06-12-2002, 04:07 PM

I think she just wanted to wait til "dad" left before she got married....

I mean, can you imagine having "agent smith" as an inlaw? Aragorn probably insisted on it.

"otna in ontfra of the adday, babe"

You know how those elvish women get....

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-12-2002, 11:10 PM

No, having Agent Elrond as an inlaw doesn't sound that great...but the real Elrond is a different story. . .

cassiopeia

06-12-2002, 11:38 PM

Heather, I don't understand why you call Arwen a gold digger and then say why didn't they elope. Wouldn't she be a gold digger if she did elope with Aragorn? I don't think Aragorn had much money/posessions anyway. She waited because she knew the time was not right. So what if she was 3000 years old, she could wait a few more years. Aragorn was only about 80 and he was of a long lived race, so he still had many years left.

Heather Wooltoes

06-13-2002, 02:22 AM

I'm not "saying" she's a gold digger, I'm just thinking. Even as a child the femminist in me gagged at the idea of a woman needing "daddys" permission to marry. Elves were supposed too be so wise but look at the whole Beren/Luth fiasco, tragedy for all. Elves as racist (dwarf thing), stupid, S.O.B. man-pigs. (I grew up in the 70's)

As a practical thing, look at it this way. Aragorn didn't "know" he would achieve something his bloodline had failed at for 1000 years. Look at what happened to his pop and granddaddy. At least they had heirs to continue the line. What if a warg had him for lunch.....?They could have hooked up, had a few sprats for her to raise while he's off fighting the good fight.

At 12 I figured Arwen as a cradle robbing gold digger or a passive, brainless Daddy's girl with no backbone. What would you think about these people if they were real? I keep seeing Aragorns letter to Dear Abby about his older, wishywashy gf who won't commit even after 30 some odd years of going steady just because he's not good enough for her Daddy , (who also raised him, and they're cousins) .... Jerry Springer anyone?

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-13-2002, 02:34 AM

Middle Earth is not a very feminist-friendly place, I'm afraid. I mean, Middle Earth, at that time, if a girl wanted to get married, she would have to have her father's permission. Thus the whole thing with Elrond being picky about who she marries.

cassiopeia

06-13-2002, 05:51 AM

Well, I dislike Arwen having to get her Dads permission to marry etc. I wouldn't have waited to get with someone like Aragorn.:D But those were different times, maybe Eowyn should have started a Middle Earth feminist movement

BeardofPants

06-13-2002, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by Heather Wooltoes
Even as a child the femminist in me gagged at the idea of a woman needing "daddys" permission to marry.

I'd really love to agree with you on this one, and regarding anyone else other than Arwen, I'd probably just roll with it. However, consider just who Arwen was. Being a daughter of a prominent family - even in this day and age - tends to cause complications. Not to say that I agree with it, but such is the way of that wonderful thing called tradition. :rolleyes: As a daughter of "nobility", the best you can expect is for her father to look over the prospective hubbies. Hey, I'm not happy with it either, but given that Aragorn was a "penniless" ranger, and Arwen was from Imladris - undoubtedly a place of fortune.

*reads over post*

Ack. What a load of [edit]. :rolleyes: Maybe I should go beat up some orks or something. :eek: :p

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-13-2002, 04:06 PM

I don't like it either, all that stuff with Arwen having to have her father's permission and approval and so on. . .but it makes sense for the time, the place, and who wrote the book (and when it was written).

I think Elrond's requirements were actually good for Aragorn, though. Someone needed to get him going on the king stuff...maybe it was Elrond's way of showing he cared for him, eh?

Blackheart

06-13-2002, 04:18 PM

Ha! Beat up orks? Good luck...

*pauses for calculated dramatic effect*

Female :p

BeardofPants

06-13-2002, 04:23 PM

...Female :p

*checks*

Yes. :rolleyes: :p

Anyway, I'll just enrich their lives with feminism, and convert their society to a matriarchal one, and then the damage will be complete.

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-13-2002, 04:27 PM

BeardofPants

06-13-2002, 04:31 PM

I'm assuming that you're talking about converting da orks to a matriarchal society... not other one. :eek:

Eruviel Greenleaf

06-13-2002, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm assuming that you're talking about converting da orks to a matriarchal society... not other one. :eek:

You assume correctly...I'll help convert the da orks to a matriarchal society :eek:

Blackheart

06-13-2002, 04:53 PM

Ack! She Orks! Run Boyz! :eek: :eek:

Wayfarer

06-13-2002, 06:06 PM

I'll just enrich their lives with feminism, and convert their society to a matriarchal one, and then the damage will be complete.

Kinky.

Catreena Dragonsword

06-24-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by BeardofPants

*checks*

Yes. :rolleyes: :p

Anyway, I'll just enrich their lives with feminism, and convert their society to a matriarchal one, and then the damage will be complete.

Can I join? I just want to ... RIP THE HEADS OFF THE PUNNY LITTLE...(for lack of words) ...GUYS. :) And for those of you who are wondering, I do have issues. :D

Blackheart

06-25-2002, 10:11 AM

Welcome to the club of those who have issues with the other sex.
Stand in line. :rolleyes: