faramir

[afro-elf]

what are your thoughts on faramir?

I seen him as aragorn would have been as a young man had he been raised in gondor and not in the wilds

aragorn is the Capt the enterprise and faramior is the perfect #!

to me they are really the same person that tolkien split in two

[Elvet]

I agree with you, Afro-elf
I think that Faramir has greatness in him, but he was overshadowed by Boromir and didn't face the challanges that develop greater strength of character, as Aragorn did throughout his life. In otherwords I feel that Faramir was slow to mature, but rose to the challenge when he had to. I also sense that he was more 'cerebral' and compassionate than his brother, and therefore, ultimately more suitable for leadership.
I'm not familiar with the Star Trek series, but I get the gist of your analogy.

[Snowdog]

I think Faramir grew up in his brothers shadow, learning and doing all that was required of him, and of course he grew up as a great warrior being that he had an older brother that excelled in weaponry. Faramir was more into the lore I believe also.

[Sauron's Nagging Wife]

I have always wondered about Denethor favoring Boromir, because both sons wer obviously brave and great men. I suppose that when Faramir showed an interest in learning from Gandalf, Denethor was disgusted.

Was the old man just arrogant? What did he have against wizards? And was it only the influence of Sauron in the palantir that made him scoff at Aragorn's claim to the kingship? Or is that just arrogance as well?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Sauron's Nagging Wife
Was the old man just arrogant? What did he have against wizards? And was it only the influence of Sauron in the palantir that made him scoff at Aragorn's claim to the kingship? Or is that just arrogance as well?

Well he did know that Gandalf was trying to get Aragorn become the King of Gondor. Denethor being a king in everything but name probably didn't appreciate that, hence his dislike of Gandalf. Well that's my view at least.

[Tar-Elendil]

it says in many places that the blood of numenor ran more truly in faramir(when i say that i mean he was more like his numenorean ancestors than boromir). The stewards came fromt he house of hurin (the numenorean hurin). that would explain somewhat of their similar character

[Sicirus]

I always thought of Faramir was more of a person who dislikes battle but does it to protect those he holds dear. To me he seems to be calm good hearted and good character. He also seemed to me to be much more controled than his brother and softer.

[Christiana]

I agree

[Kevin McIntyre]

Denethor favored Boromir because he was less complicated than Faramir. Boromir was a warrior, and in Denethor's thats what was needed in Gondor's hour of need, Faramir spent too much time with history and thought (at least in Denethor's mind). All this means is Boromir probably was the better general, but Faramir would be the better leader.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I liked Faramir, I think he is very similar to Aragorn in few ways.Faramir grew and he always was the second to Borumir, he isn't proud as Boromir is.

[Starr Polish]

Faramir...yes, I think he was much more complicated than Boromir, and probably wiser, even though he was younger. The type of man that doesn't look forward to war, but does it when it is needed...and still realizes that 'fighting for peace' is an oxymoron.

[Nienna Grey]

I was discussing Faramir with a friend a couple of weeks ago and we both agreed that he was a complex and understated character.

He had the seeds of greatness in him, no doubt, and he did indeed rise to the challange when needed.

I loved the way he was so courteous with Eowyn too, especially when he thought she might still be in love with Aragorn.

[Sicirus]

i agree
Faramir was one of the nobelest and honost character in the book.
He wasent afraid to admit he hated things or that he liked things.

[Ñólendil]

Hopefully this hasn't been brought up yet. I wanted to say that in a letter, Tolkien said that of all the characters in the Lord of the Rings, Faramir is most like himself, except, he said, "in bravery".

[Wayfarer]

Faramir is my favorite character in the books, and he's onw of the best anywhere.
He could probobly get away with a spin-off book of his own, I suspect. ;)

[Cirdan]

Faramir's judgement after the "rabbits..." capture was wise for his position relative to his brother. I felt reading RotK that Denethor valued Boromir's "blind" loyalty over all his other qualities. This may have exacerbated Boromir's fatal decision.

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

I think Faramir grew up in his brothers shadow, learning and doing all that was required of him, and of course he grew up as a great warrior being that he had an older brother that excelled in weaponry. Faramir was more into the lore I believe also

Yeah. I agree. And Farimir is a scholer. Borimir is a warrior. Aragorn is bolth (And hot)

[afro-elf]

Yeah. I agree. And Farimir is a scholer. Borimir is a warrior. Aragorn is bolth (And hot)


faramir is a GREAT warrior recall eowyn's remark that NO man of the mark could have defeated him

[Radagast]

I concur to most of the statements above...
Faramir is in my signature and overall is one of my favourite characters...
Strong, thoughtful, noble and dignified he was much more empathic than Boromir...although I liked Boromir too. I always thought of Faramir as the kind that the soldiers below him looked up to, a leader they could relate to and trust absolutely. Faramir is a man that could inspire whole armies to rise up and give themselves pride.

[Radagast]

Boromir, however is quite a paradox. On the surface we see an arrogant warrior with every reason to feel secure in his strength. He is his father's favourite, a fabled warrior and the trusted emissary of Gondor during the Council of Elrond.
Boromir is concerned for his people but clings to what power he can grasp. He refuses to recognise Aragon as being the 39th descendant of Isildur until his dying moment, far too eager to remain an important man in Gondorian society.
He looks down on his brother somewhat though...I'm really just thinking aloud here. :)

[Elvellon]

What else to say? Faramir is indeed one of the most crucial characters in the LotR. Twice he olds the fate of Middle Earth in his hands. The first time when he encounters the hobbits, the second when he freely gives back his ancestral rights over Gondor and recognises Aragorn as is true sovereign.

[XRogue]

He could have taken the Ring, but instead refused even to look at it, and he could have blamed the hobbits (esp. Frodo) for Boromir's death, but he didn't. Faramir gave the hobbits kindness and refreshed them for the end of their journey at a time when they badly needed it, and provisions for the trip as well.

Then Faramir gave up his seat as Ruling Steward, an act Boromir, who was raised to be Steward, never would have been able to do willingly.

Faramir exhibited wisdom and character, and deserves his place of great respect amongst Tolkien's characters.

[Eldanuumea]

I love how Tolkien says that he "found " Faramir walking in the woods of Ithilien.

Faramir is probably my third favorite character.....Aragorn and Eowyn being #1 & 2.
I loved him from the moment he treated Frodo and Sam so kindly. I was impressed by his resistance to the lure of the Ring, by his patient and tender wooing of Eowyn, by his honorable and willing submission to Aragorn's authority, by his love of lore.
Denethor was an old fool, IMHO.

[Valacirca]

Denethor might had been an old fool, then Boromir was a young fool because they were so much alike... ;)
One of the things that I like in Faramir is his warm relationship with his brother, he is able to love him even though Boromir gets all the love and attention from their father. I think that it´s great that their relationship is described in the books, because it shows the warmer side of Boromir also - no matter what he did and how blind and shortsighted he might had been, he loved his brother.

[Christiana]

I agree.

[Rána Eressëa]

I've always liked Faramir. He's my favorite human in the books. :)

[Faramir]

Faramir is a very neat character. He had what Boromir had and more. But he was disliked by his father, even though he was a good person, and I think that may have taken something from him. He was a good warrior, not eager to battle, but when needed he was very strong. He was also loved by his people. Remember when he returned to Gondor how everyone cheered, and how Beryle acted. Remember when Denethor was going to have both him and Faramir burned how Berlye fought off the gaurds to keep him alive? That is true loyalty. I think Faramir was loved morethan Boromr by his people. Faramir was my favorite character, and I also chose him as my Entmoot name.

[Comic Book Guy]

There is no need to use the Spoiler tag in the Lord of the Rings book forum Faramir.

[Sicirus]

Faramir is a very good and respectable character that many in the book looked up to as a king. He to me should have been a king.(If he was already a king then he'll mekre a good king.) He is brave and loyal to his father even though his father was bad to him.

[Faramir]

Oh, I thought I might be giving parts of the book away. That happened to me a lot and I thought I was supposed to. Sorry.

[Sicirus]

Well even if they haven't read the whole book yet they would have read that. But o well.

[Snowdog]

Oh, I thought I might be giving parts of the book away. That happened to me a lot and I thought I was supposed to. Sorry. I would hope the books would be more interesting and would keep the attention of the reader until they were done, instead of getting on the net and reading about the books. :)

[Faramir]

I wasn't trying to figure out what was happening it was an accident, and I was upset to have very good parts spoiled for me.

[Snowdog]

I was upset to have very good parts spoiled for me. Yes, that is the risk of reading websites on books we havent finished reading.

[entss89]

PRACTICLY THE SAME!

[Elbereth]

Faramir is one of my favorite characters in the book, maybe even more so because Tolkien does not tell us much about him. I think it interesting that Denethor would like Boromir better because he himself was more like Faramir, but then again Faramir was so wise that maybe Denethor feels like his own wisdom is challenged.

[katya]

i guess i dont have a lot to say but anyway i do like faramir. he is cooler than boromir. and well, um...everything that has already been said i guess. oh well...

[Sicirus]

Originally posted by entss89
PRACTICLY THE SAME!

What does that mean???:confused:

[Sicirus]

Originally posted by entss89
PRACTICLY THE SAME!

What does that mean???:confused:

Faramir was one of the most respected characters in the book. He would be my vote for king if he was of blood. ;)

[RosieCotton]

I agree with just about everyone else. I looked at this thread a bit late, so sorry if I just repeat what everyone else said.
I think that Faramir is a lot more complex than his brother. He has a deeper character: he is more like Aragorn, and therefore more kingly. He has a greater sense of dignity about him, but is not arrogant like his father. He is courteous, wise, and will go to battle not because he is a warrior like his brother but because he must, and it is the right thing to do. However, he seemed to change from first meeting him to the end. It seems to me his self esteem grew. He always lived in the shadow of Boromir, Denethor's favorite. But as he lay dying, his father came to terms of what his second son meant to him. After that, I believe, Farair changed, becoming even more like Aragorn.

[Telperion]

I agree with everyone else too. Farimir was a very noble and ggod character. had he been Isildur's heir and not been overshadowed by his brother, he would have made almost as good a king as Aragorn.

[Celebrian]

Faramir is very similar to aragorn, but I don't think he would have liked being king of Gondor. He probably would have done a good job, but if you are raised to be a steward, you would probably not want to have to be a king.

[Linarryl]

Faramir is noble. He is really disapointed I think that Denethor didn't like him as much as Boromir, but he still likes Boromir.

[IronParrot]

On the surface, Faramir is a bit of a wimp... but I would say that this wimpiness - or maybe just a lack of ambition - is why he lives, while his father and brother perish. And it is also why he is in fact the strongest, in terms of resistance to the lust for power.

[Lalaith]

Gladly I found I thread about Faramir.
And I have to pick up the topic.
I just love Faramir in the books (in TTT I just love his looks.).
So if you like, let me know your thoughts about this gorgeous man whohe is in the books.

[azalea]

I love Faramir, too. He's not the most exciting character in the books, but I've said before he'd be a good match for me IRL. He seems like he'd be a fun and interesting person to be around.

[Lalaith]

Noble is really the word for him.

[Narsil's Master]

i think faramir is almost the same as aragorn but not as skilled of a fighter. in rotk faramir lost a fight against 1 nazgul but aragorn took 5 himself in fotr

[Lalaith]

You cannot compare that. Aragorn was fighting with them (and had little help from the hobbits) while the Nazgul was fighting with Faramir and could fly.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I don't think that it actually says in the book that Aragorn actually fought the Nazgul.

[Lalaith]

Let me think ... Weathertop ....
couldn't say that either because I'm always mixing up movie and books

[Lalaith]

I just discovered that Faramirs grand-son Barahir is mentioned on the first pages of LotR.
That's wasn't in the German version of LotR!!

[markedel]

Faramir is a different type of numenorian then Aragorn. If Aragorn is Elendil's heir by blood and deed, Faramir has something more ancient, if arguably less vital, the characteristics of Tar-Meneldur, -a man who could command, but was more concerned with thinking then doing.

[olsonm]

Faramir was quite wise, but the book makes note that he is held in high esteem as a warrior and leader by his people. He simply could put war and power in their proper perspective whereas his father and brother failed to do so: to their ruin. (Boromir had a better excuse for this than Denthor)

[Lalaith]

One thing about Faramir that I appreciated very much was that he didn't like war just to fight against each other.

[Elvengirl]

I agree with all of you.

I am reminded of the line Elrond says 'Men are weak' (I don't know that he actually says that in the book)

I always thought that, when it came to the power of the ring, Isildur and Boromir were weak. Faramir, though, represents the strength that are in men, as in Aragorn. :)

[markedel]

I don't know the movie gives Isildur a bad rap. He did repent of his decision to take the ring-he just died before he could do anything about it. Elrond is much more negative in the movie then in the book. He actually compares Frodo to the greatest of the Edain after his choice, and he is half-man himself. And of course, Aragorn doesn't have the self-doubt we see in the movie-all the self-doubt had been dealt with at this point.

[Lalaith]

I don't know the movie gives Isildur a bad rap. He did repent of his decision to take the ring-he just died before he could do anything about it.
That's not my opinion. Isildur had his chance to destroy the ring and with it most evil in middle-earth but he prefered to use the ring for his own purposes (or for those of his people).

[Sicirus]

Yeh to tell you the truth in the book Isildur was led by Elrind to Mt Doom to destroy thr ring knowing its evil. I mean He did know it was the root to Sauron's power thats why he cut it. But he kept it and instead of his (good intentions ) he caused a whole new war.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Isildur seemed to me more heroic in the movie than the book. At least in the movies, he struck the final blow on Sauron. In the book, it seems to me more like he just came in and took the spoils of war after the battle was over. I'd say the movies give him a good rap, rather than bad.

[Elvengirl]

I thought the movie gave him a bad rap.
He did defeat Sauron, but it looked like a desperate attempt to save himself and he just happened to cut the ring from his hand. Then he shows his greedy desire for power by not destroying the ring when he had the chance.

[Lalaith]

In the movie he had this greedy look just as he cut of the ring of Sauron's finger.

[Beren+Luthien]

Originally posted by Sicirus
I always thought of Faramir was more of a person who dislikes battle but does it to protect those he holds dear.

Faramir just wants to please denthor in my eyes. He just went to battle as his father told him so he could gain his respect.
He will never get Denthors respect because Borimir is the oldest and everything Faramir has done Borimir did earlier.

[azalea]

Thank you, B+L, for getting us back on topic.
Gentle reminder: this is the thread to discuss Faramir. Any discussion of the movie needs to take place in the movies forum. Thank you.:)

[durin's bane]

I liked Faramir. I thought he was a great man. What I like about him is he's willing to fight when someone is in danger but does not like war and such. I think that father favoured Boromir over him was that Denethor hated Gandalf, and Faramir liked him, and that Boromir seemed more "into" his country than Faramir. Faramir was less proud, but he didn't have low self-esteem. I felt so sorry for him when his father claimed he was dead, but I felt happy for him when he healed from his wound and got to marry Eowyn. :)

[Lalaith]

Sorry for the off-topic discussion.
Back to Faramir: I hated Denethor for not liking his almost perfect son.

[olsonm]

Tolkien hinted that it was a form of self-hate as Faramir was most like to Denethor of his sons. He wished Faramir was more like Boromir because Denethor wished he himself was more like Boromir. Not that he hated Faramir, I believe he loved him. But Denethor was a troubled man by the time of the war and seemed to have lost some of his wisdom.

[FattyBulger]

[QUOTE]Faramir is my favorite character in the books, and he's onw of the best anywhere.
He could probobly get away with a spin-off book of his own, I suspect.

Wow!!! Usually no one really thinks Faramir's cool! I totally agree Faramir Rules!

Boromir was Lord Denethor's first born. That can mean something. Personally, I think Denethor was TOTALLY mental to give Boromir more favour than Faramir. Not that Boromir isn't really cool too.

[Lalaith]

Did anyone ever say that Faramir wasn't good? Who is this person. Now I feel like punching somebody.

I think I remember Denethor saying that he rather would see Faramir dead.

[Silverleaf]

~Faramir is one of my favorite characters.I felt very bad for him because Lord Denethor liked Boromir best. I remember I hated when Faramir asked him if it would have been better if he died and he said yes(something like that). That really got me mad. And in the movie how they made Faramir look sorta mean that also got me mad. Because my friend hated Faramir! I had to explain alot of things from the book.(she also did not pay attention to the part about his life being forfeit.)
Namárië

[Lalaith]

Image how hard life has to be, when your father always prefers your brother and you are only the dumb little brother. Poor Faramir.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Silverleaf
~Faramir is one of my favorite characters.I felt very bad for him because Lord Denethor liked Boromir best. I remember I hated when Faramir asked him if it would have been better if he died and he said yes(something like that). That really got me mad. And in the movie how they made Faramir look sorta mean that also got me mad. Because my friend hated Faramir! I had to explain alot of things from the book.(she also did not pay attention to the part about his life being forfeit.)
Namárië

I completely agree with you. I nearly cried at that bit when Denethor said he would rather that Faramir had died instead of Boromir.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Linaewen
I completely agree with you. I nearly cried at that bit when Denethor said he would rather that Faramir had died instead of Boromir.
that was so mean ... how can a father be so cruel to his son.

[Jonathan]

Denethor might have been cruel and crazy, but I don't hate him for that. In fact I find Denethor quite intriguing. I think I wrote in my 'Catcher in the Rye'-thread that I like when characters in books are a bit crazy and have some mental disturbances. That makes them more interesting.
Besides, I don't think Denethor would have been as mean as he was toward Faramir if it wasn't for the PalantÃ*r. Sure, Denethor might have loved Boromir more than Faramir anyway, but he hadn't said to Faramir that it would've been better if he died instead of Boromir if it wasn't for the corruption caused by the PalantÃ*r.

One of the things I'm looking forward to in the RotK-film is to see Denethor (who will be played by John Noble if I remember correctly).

[Orion]

I don´t dislike Denethor either because he wasn´t nice to Faramir - I do like Faramir, a lot, but part of the reason why I like Faramir is because he must had had such a hard childhood and hard life; living under his brother´s shadow.. (I liked Faramir already in the first reading, when he appeared to the book, being so "Robin Hood" - like, and wise and intriquing..)
But I also like Denethor, he is very interesting and strong person, at least judged by UT.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Orion
I don´t dislike Denethor either because he wasn´t nice to Faramir - I do like Faramir, a lot, but part of the reason why I like Faramir is because he must had had such a hard childhood and hard life; living under his brother´s shadow.. (I liked Faramir already in the first reading, when he appeared to the book, being so "Robin Hood" - like, and wise and intriquing..)
But I also like Denethor, he is very interesting and strong person, at least judged by UT.
Never saw Faramir as Robin Hood. :D

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Never saw Faramir as Robin Hood. :D Neither did I. But I think Faramir reminded me of Aragorn and the Dúnedain, he was a little ranger-like when we first got to know him in Ithilien.

[Wayfarer]

of the reason why I like Faramir is because he must had had such a hard childhood and hard life; living under his brother´s shadow.. Actually, I think it's made quite clear, or at least strongly implied, that Faramir /didn't/ have a hard childhood and a hard life, that in fact he was quite well loved, and he got along with Boromir better than most siblings do.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Actually, I think it's made quite clear, or at least strongly implied, that Faramir /didn't/ have a hard childhood and a hard life, that in fact he was quite well loved, and he got along with Boromir better than most siblings do. Yes, that's the impression I got when I read LotR. Boromir and Faramir seemed to be good friends when they were small. And during their childhood, Denethor didn't look that bad either.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Yes, that's the impression I got when I read LotR. Boromir and Faramir seemed to be good friends when they were small. And during their childhood, Denethor didn't look that bad either.
I guess there problems began when they grew up and Boromir became the warrior and Faramir more the thinker.

[Wayfarer]

I really don't notice any indications that there was a problem between Faramir and Boromir. Faramir genuinely mourns his brothers death, and speaks highly of him.

/Denethor/ came to think better of Boromir than Faramir. But between the two of them. But even then, they were good enough friends that they told each other their dreams.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I really don't notice any indications that there was a problem between Faramir and Boromir. Faramir genuinely mourns his brothers death, and speaks highly of him.

/Denethor/ came to think better of Boromir than Faramir. But between the two of them. But even then, they were good enough friends that they told each other their dreams.
I didn't say that there was a problem between Boromir and Faramir. I guess the only one with a real problem was Denethor.