Haradrim? (sp?)

[Carafin]

Please no one be offended at what I have to say here but....
in LotR I noticed that Tolkien didn't deal very kindly with any of the Southrons-Haradrim(sp?) or the easterlings, would there be a reason for this (better yet does this really happen?) or is it just that I've read the books one to many times. I also noticed this in C.S. Lewis' series Narnia (around the same time period as LotR?)

but maybe I just have an overactive imagination


I hope I didn't offend anyone

:o

[Ñólendil]

Never read the Narnia books. First thing's first: re-read the Lord of the Rings and read it carefully. You'll find that there are dark-skinned people on the bad side and the good side. Also, make sure you read Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit over again in Book IV, the part where Sam looks at a dying Southron on the ground. It will change your mind, whatever it is you are pondering.

J. R. R. Tolkien was most definitely not a racist.

Anyway, the most popular tribe of Easterlings, the Wainriders, were white-skinned. The color of skin was what you were getting at, wasn't it?

[Snowdog]

The men of Harad, Khand, and those of the east did not come west toward the light or the rumor of no evil, but instead fell under the darkness of Morgoth and his spies. Some of the Easterlings that did come west turned on the Edain in battle and fled east in the First age as well.

When you say "didn't deal very kindly" what exactly do you mean? I guess I miss the point of your observation.

[Tar-Elendil]

to make a statement like that is completely off the wall. You obivously didnt read it correctly and need to read it again to show yourself that what you just said is unbelievably ludicrous

[Ñólendil]

But Carafin hardly said anything. He/she seemed unsure and very careful not to offend anyone.

[Tar-Elendil]

my apology, but i became a bit annoyed by the post and probably overreacted. as Ñólendil said look at where sam saw the dead southron.

[afro-elf]

there are several threads concerning this on this board with quite a bit of info.

[Wayfarer]

I noticed that Tolkien didn't deal very kindly with any of the Southrons-Haradrim(sp?) or the easterlings, would there be a reason for this (better yet does this really happen?)

You are correct. Tolkien did not deal very kindly with the southrons or the easterlings. There is a very simple explaination for this-they were the bad guys.

However, compare his treatment of them to his treatment of the orcs, and you'll reevaluate how badly he treated them.

In any case, the common misconception that the southrons were black and the easterlings were aisan was and is completely off base. As far as I know only some of the haradrim were black (the more powerful ones were white) and there is no real mention of asian peoples at all.

[afro-elf]

As far as I know only some of the haradrim were black

I always thought they were more arabic as opposed to negro

the more powerful ones were white


are you referring to the black numenoreans and the kingsmen?

[Wayfarer]

Yes.

[Ñólendil]

Indeed the majority of Haradrim were brown-skinned, not black. There is no part in the Lord of the Rings where black skinned Men are described, unless you count the Half-trolls in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

[afro-elf]

I think black used above was meant as negro

[Snowdog]

I always thought of the Haradrim as arabic too. Easterlings I believe were described as shorter than the Edain and with thick beards, so I always imagined them as sort of Viking-like. The little mention of the men of Khand led my mind to think they were more Asiatic. These are just my interpretations of what I read.

[Ñólendil]

Haradrim remind me more of an Indian people. By which I don't mean Native American.

[Carafin]

Thanks for your views,I certanly hope no-one was offended, and I certainly don't think Tolkien was a racist, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't letting something get into the back of my mind and "fester" so to speak. I am definatly going to take a look at the parts you suggested TarElendil thanx:)

[Rána Eressëa]

Yeah, you've just got to look and it's easy to see Tolkien was no racist. It's a very often made misconception.