The hobbits comming to ME

[Arat-Falathion]

I can not remember to have read this anywhere, so it has been bugging me...
I remember clearly how dwarves, elves and humans came to middle earth... but when and how were the hobbits created? and in which book is this mentioned??
Maybe I was reading Silmarillion half asleap at some points, but I find it odd that I missed this! :p

- Falathion

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Arat-Falathion
I can not remember to have read this anywhere, so it has been bugging me...
I remember clearly how dwarves, elves and humans came to middle earth... but when and how were the hobbits created? and in which book is this mentioned??
Maybe I was reading Silmarillion half asleap at some points, but I find it odd that I missed this! :p

- Falathion There is no mention of Hobbits in Quenta Silmarillion. They are briefly mentioned in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" refering to the Halflings, or Periannath. It also says that until the passing of the ring into their land, they were of small account to Men and Elves. I believe they were considered to be of the race of Men, and seem to be a secluded people and took no part in matters outside their own realm. So, they probably had little to contribute in the history before the Ring.

[Elfhelm]

Prof Tolkien wrote something in a letter, let me paraphrase it: Isn't it good to leave some things as a mystery?

Since The Silmarillion is ostensibly by elves for elves, and the Numenorians basically only kept elven lore and their geneologies, there wasn't much beyond "old wive's tales" about the Hobbits. And we of later years know that "old wive's tales" are the remnants of the oral tradition. So we are led to understand, I think, that the Hobbits arrived inconspicuously and went unnoticed by many for years - thankfully!

Another angle we could take on this is "When did JRRT decide to add Hobbits to Middle Earth?" In Lost Tales we have elves living in a cottage that you have to shrink to enter. They refer to the Noldor as gnomes. The orcs, old english for ogres, were renamed from the earlier goblins. It's clear that at first the Prof was planning to write fairy tales using a Grimm's Bros sort of bestiary of faerie. Over time, however, his elves became more Nordic. We can find early references to a green man, like Tom Bombadil, and he lived near barrows called Wayland's Smithy. So can we find that sort of genesis for Hobbits? I mean, a writer's genesis, if you catch my drift.

[Arat-Falathion]

...so the hobbits comming to Middle Earth is indeed a mystery! very well then :p

[Elf Girl]

I think that they're mutated Elves, because they are very strong, Ring-wise, stronger then Men or Dwarves.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I think that they're mutated Elves, because they are very strong, Ring-wise, stronger then Men or Dwarves. Hobbits are Men.

[Elf Girl]

Where did you learn this?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Where did you learn this? HoMe.

[Ñólendil]

And they are called "a diminutive Race of Man" in letters a few times. Also, Tolkien says they are akin to us in the Prologue.

[Elf Girl]

Ah. No wonder. I haven't read HomE.

[Cirdan]

Since elves and dwarfs were borrowed from other works, it makes sense to create a detailed history of the previously 2D beings. The hobbit, being a unique creation, would need added "mystery" to make them fit well with the other mythical beings. speculation...

[stormcrow]

Hobbits are usually refered to as "halflings." Is it possible that they are a half-breed between men and some other race? Purely speculating, they could have some dwarvish or elvish blood, or some combination or all three.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by stormcrow
Hobbits are usually refered to as "halflings." Is it possible that they are a half-breed between men and some other race? Purely speculating, they could have some dwarvish or elvish blood, or some combination or all three.

...maybe dwaves since they are short and hairy and live underground...

[Kirinki54]

Prologue, LotR says:

It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even
than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did. But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Kirinki54
Prologue, LotR says:

Where were they when Beren and Finrod needed them?

Hi Kirinki. Don't be such a stranger.

[bropous]

Yuppers, Hobbits is men. Tolkien says so in the Letters, Nolendil and Sister Golden Hair have it right on the money once again. No suprise there.

[Ñólendil]

Bah. The old woman's just learned a few tricks from me, the glory is all mine.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Bah. The old woman's just learned a few tricks from me, the glory is all mine. Excuse me little elf boy. I have been reading Tolkien longer than you have been alive. Heeheehee.:rolleyes: :p :) :cool: :p

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Excuse me little elf boy. I have been reading Tolkien longer than you have been alive. Heeheehee.:rolleyes: :p :) :cool: :p

Nice burn

*another "old fogey"*

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Where were they when Beren and Finrod needed them?

Hi Kirinki. Don't be such a stranger.

Hi Sister Golden Hair! :D

I do feel like a stranger, have been gone for months. Of course there are a few familiar people so, hi all of you too!

PS Sister, how on ME did you get more than 60000 posts? :confused:

[Ñólendil]

Excuse me little elf boy. I have been reading Tolkien longer than you have been alive. Heeheehee

Yes, and you've yet to consume 1/4 of the knowledge I like to slap you in the face with. *slap*

Kirinki, all the admins have 60,000 posts now. The post counts don't matter to us, but I guess it was annoying some that a lot of posters were filling threads with spam in order to pass us. So "we" (the royal "we") came up with this brilliant plan to cut out the spam. There's just no way someone will try to reach our post count now.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil


Yes, and you've yet to consume 1/4 of the knowledge I like to slap you in the face with. *slap*
Watch it young whippersnapper! I just went and bought a new leather bound edition of LotRs, The War of the Jewels, AND The Peoples of Middle-earth. After I finish the HoMe and re-read the LotRs, not only will I slap ypur face, but I intend to turn you over my knee and give you a spanking. When I am done, that behind will look like a ripe red tomato.:D :p

[Ñólendil]

Ooh, :D ... I mean, how horrible! Old woman!

I've had War of the Jewels and Peoples of Middle-earth for years, you'll never catch up to me.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Ooh, :D ... I mean, how horrible! Old woman!

I've had War of the Jewels and Peoples of Middle-earth for years, you'll never catch up to me. I just love the way you say "for years" Ahhhhhhaaaaa!!!Ahhhaaaa!! That's so funny.:D :D

[Ñólendil]

Two years is years. I'm sorry years for you includes the time you learned how to ride a bike, the time you forgot, your first boyfriend, the time you almost graduated from a crappy college, your first failed marriage and that mid-life crisis you went through when we were still hunting dinosaurs. I'm really sorry about that.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Two years is years. I'm sorry years for you includes the time you learned how to ride a bike, the time you forgot, your first boyfriend, the time you almost graduated from a crappy college, your first failed marriage and that mid-life crisis you went through when we were still hunting dinosaurs. I'm really sorry about that. You're showing your age dear.:p

[Ñólendil]

Yes and it is a very good age to be. I have a long life ahead of me, you could drop dead at any moment. Watch out!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Yes and it is a very good age to be. I have a long life ahead of me, you could drop dead at any moment. Watch out! Yeah, I know what it's like to be that age. Been there done that. I am still too young to drop dead believe it or not. Don't you have to go get your diaper changed or something?:p

[Cirdan]

No one is too old to die:eek:

The leading cause of death is life.

[Elf Girl]

Ñólendil and Sister Golden Hair, as any self-respecting mod or admin (not me) would say, quit chatting and stick to the topic! You ought to set a good example...

Someone ought to close this thread, its purpose is served.

Okay, I'll stop giving the admins advice.

Hobbits seem to me like a cross between Elves and Dwarves, but Men and Dwarves would be just as likely.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Ñólendil and Sister Golden Hair, as any self-respecting mod or admin (not me) would say, quit chatting and stick to the topic! You ought to set a good example...
Elf Girl, you are so right. Nolendil, grow up, and get back on topic.:D Hobbits are Men.:)

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Kirinki, all the admins have 60,000 posts now. The post counts don't matter to us, but I guess it was annoying some that a lot of posters were filling threads with spam in order to pass us. So "we" (the royal "we") came up with this brilliant plan to cut out the spam. There's just no way someone will try to reach our post count now.

As you can see from my lousy count I am not one of those spammers...

But do not feel too sure none will try to beat you admins still! :D