The word Entmoot.

[emplynx]

It is really hard to say Entmoot. Combining the "T" with the "M" is a vocal challenge. Anyone else think so?

[Khadrane]

Now that I think of it, I guess it is. I usually say it lazily by half leaving out the "t" though.

[Treebeard's apprentice]

Actually, I don't think I've ever said the word out loud, but now that I think of it, it is sort of a goofy word. I guess whenever I read it I would sort of say it in my head almost as two words. It's a little easier to say if you put the small pause between 't' and 'm'.

[azalea]

This may not make sense to people who don't drive, but when I say it I come to a "rolling stop" at the first "t" rather than a complete stop. Did that make sense to anybody? I don't say enmoot, but I don't say enTmoot, either. It's somewhere in between.

[Shadowfax]

LOL azalea! Yah, but I've never really said it out loud until now. "Entmoot"! Hehe.:D

[galadriel88]

Yeah, my t is kinda half there and half not. Not enmoot, and not enTUH mooTUH, bu..well, I can't really spell it...

[azalea]

LOL! I love these spelled pronunciations!

[Khadrane]

Entmoot, entmoot, entmoot. It IS a really weird word. :)

[galadriel88]

Yeah...ya ever wonder how Tolken came up eith the word ent? The first few times I read it I kept thinking of ants! :p

[BeardofPants]

*Voice heard from box*

Entmoot. EnTmoot. EntMoot. Hmmm....

[Arathorn]

I pronounce it with a silent or soft "T" enmoot, enmoot, enmoot...

[FrodoFriend]

The "t" ends up being pronounced only in the back of the throat but not with the teeth and tongue in front . . . like a half t. :confused: How odd.

[StrawberryIcecream]

you do know you could just call it the tolkien trail board dont you?!:rolleyes:

I say it with a very soft t. More like a d really. Endmoot

[Menelvagor]

Somehow, I make the 't' sound when my tongue touches the roof of my mouth, right before my lips close for the 'm' sound. it kinda comes out en-tmoot. :)

You'r right, Azalea, these pronouncations look really funny written down. :D

[Earniel]

Funny I never gave it any thought. I just said 'entmoot' aloud a cople of times. It sounds somewhere between entmoot and endmoot.:D

[Radagast The Brown]

you do know you could just call it the tolkien trail board dont you?!

I say it with a very soft t. More like a d really. Endmoot

like a d??? strange, but I think I say it like Enmoot and not like Endmoot.

I think we need to call it moot and it will solve the problams with its name.

[Menelvagor]

Yeah, the point is moot anyway. :D

[eowyn144]

ah yes but then how do you pronounce the "ent" part? is it N with a t on the end? or is it ont like a frenchy kind of pronounciation type thing?

[StrawberryIcecream]

No way is it ont moot to me. That is how a pig would say it.

[Earniel]

No a pig would probably say oinkmoot:D

[StrawberryIcecream]

I had that in my mind when i typed my post. You must have got it from me psycically.:D

[Wulažg]

Why don't we keep the pronunciations simple by doing this all in Old English, with its myriad "th" sounds? Or better yet, Tengwar! The "t" sound should actually at least be a grade 2, probably more like a Grade 4.

[Pailan]

I don't know mooters... I find that when I say the word aloud I achieve full, hard "T" sound. It's a compound word and lends itself to sounding like two words, said rapidly. Zippy the Pin Head would have fun with this word.

Entmoot Tolkien Trail. Entmoot Tolkien Trail. Entmoot Tolkien Trail.:p

[Khadrane]

Entmoot is an odd word... I like it. :)

[azalea]

There are plenty of words in the books that are challenging to the mouth. Khazad-Dum: do you say it Khaza-dum, Khazadum, or KhazaD-Dum?

[TinuvielChild]

i say it "Hkhazadum" (the first "hkh" is meant to be like the German "ch", i couldn't figure out how to write it)

[azalea]

Me, too.

[Earniel]

I pronounce it something like "Kha'zaddum".

[eowyn144]

personally i say KhazaD-Dum

[Pailan]

Originally posted by eowyn144
personally i say KhazaD-Dum

Me? I just sneeze. I keep some ground pepper around when I read LotR out loud. ;)

[eowyn144]

great. now i'll never be able to sneeze without thinking about lotr. just another aspect of my life to be taken over. only about 4 left to go now.:p

[Glorious Glorfindel]

you see, if you don't want to humiliate yourself by mispronouncing or in my case mis SPELLING things, you just avoid the word and replace it with others! so for the bridge of khazad dum, i just say the big door place with the horrible tenticle thing. for entmoot, i should probably just use 'the place where all the looney-bins go!'
no offence you guys!

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by Eowyn144
personally i say KhazaD-Dum
you really says Khazad-Dum? you can say it in a sentences and say it fast? I can't.

[Arathorn]

after a while it starts sounding like cuss-a-doom

[galadriel88]

LOL :p

Just curious..is it Khazad - DOOM or Khazad DUMB? :confused:

[Khamûl]

Probably k-haza'd doom (the 'k' and 'h' sounds should be pronounced separately; 'k-h' is used to emphasise this)Tolkien gives us little information about the pronunciation of Dwarvish names. With the exception of the note regarding 'k-h', this pronunciation is conjectural.
Source: The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/k/khazaddum.html)

[galadriel88]

Oh, OK, thanks, Khamul! That's how I've been saying it, ony I made my h silent.

[azalea]

Okay, so how about Rohirrim?

Roh ir im?
Roh Heer im?
Roh Hir im

And do you trill the "r"s?

[Pailan]

Originally posted by azalea
Okay, so how about Rohirrim?

Roh ir im?
Roh Heer im?
Roh Hir im

And do you trill the "r"s?

I tend to go with the second one and trill both "r"s. But those are noises from inside my head (not to be confused with voices.)

[Beleg Strongbow]

I usually go with Ro hir eem

[Earniel]

It's Roo Hir rim to me:)

[azalea]

I'm w/ Palian on this one.

[Wulažg]

Why don't we just wait for the movie to answer all of our pronunciation questions?

[Pailan]

Well, we could wait for the movie. I understand they had language pros helping them with Tolkien's languages. But for years we have all tried to work out the pronounciations based on what Tolkien had written. And many of us never read Tolkien's words on pronounciation until long after we had developed our own style.

I enjoy this discussion, because it's one I still have with my friends to this day. I never take it too seriously. Keep it fun and informative is my motto.

[Bilbo Baggins]

The trouble with Entmoot is that it is a collaboration of words in the first place.

Still, noone is right, yet noone is wrong.

[Beleg Strongbow]

Perhaps the correct way to pronounce Tolkien's words is whatever you think!

[eowyn144]

Ro hirr im.
if i could roll my r's then i'd roll them.but i can't.....so i won't

[Aragorns Dimple]

Another rather tricky word to pronounce is ...oh...gosh....anything in Sindarin or Quenya!

[galadriel88]

I just say Rorhim. *shrugs*

I hate the way they say some things in the movie! Like Mordor: They're always going "Moorrrdoor." Aaaah!

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by galadriel88
I just say Rorhim. *shrugs*

I hate the way they say some things in the movie! Like Mordor: They're always going "Moorrrdoor." Aaaah!

I think that's because that's how Mordor was meant to be pronounced. They had language experts on the job. I think it's kind of neat, though.:)

[Khamûl]

It sounds more sinister that way. Morrdoorrr... I have a tendency to say Morder or something like that. I never realized it until I saw the movie. I also said Legolas without accenting the LEGOlas. I didn't say it like the building blocks. I guess I'm just weird.:D

[azalea]

If you can get through Appendix E and actually understand it, it gives you a pretty good idea of pronunciations, although hearing a native speak it would be better:) . I was making a mistake on my dwarvish kh (I was confusing it w/ Orkish kh I think), until Khamul posted the quote from the dictionary. That appendix is hard to understand, but luckily I was a teacher and was pretty good at grammar, so I was able to get an idea.

[Pailan]

Of course there is the deal with pronouncing all those names of the Rohirrim: Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn etc...

Take Eowyn for example; I usally pronounce her name like this- Ay-O-win. But I think it really is EE-O-win.

Anyone else?

[azalea]

I pronounce it AY-oh-wen, AY-oh-mer, THAY-oh-den, and I think that is correct, because if the acute accent, which normally indicates that sound. Also, doesn't he indicate a long e with the two dots, like in Feanor and Aule? It is a bit confusing in the index, I think for me because Tolkein would, as an Englishman, pronounced things differently than me to begin w/, so naturally his explanation of sounds would be different for me than if he'd been a US citizen.
But I think AY is correct.

[Earniel]

Same for me, 'ay' seems right.

[Pailan]

Originally posted by azalea
It is a bit confusing in the index, I think for me because Tolkein would, as an Englishman, pronounced things differently than me to begin w/, so naturally his explanation of sounds would be different for me than if he'd been a US citizen.
But I think AY is correct.

I noticed azalea, that you are from down South so I wonder what Tolkien might sound like with a deep southern accent or for that matter with a nice nasal Rhode Island twang?

I do think you are onto something there, though. I have often suspected that Tolkien assumed certian pronounciations based on his expirence as an English man-and a prof. at Oxford no less. There may also be certian assumptions of sounds that come from the scholary world he lived in that are not part of our expierence.

But yeah, Ithink it's "AY" as well and the umlout indicates a long sound for "E".

[Wayfarer]

The reason you have problyms is that 'entmoot' is two words. Ent Moot. A Mooting of the Ents. Ent. Moot.

[azalea]

Although I do live in the South I am half Northern (My father's side is all from the Northeast, and I lived in MA as a child for a few years) and half Southern (on my mother's side - but she has barely an accent), so I actually don't have a Southern accent, it's very neutral. I live in a rural area around many people who do have thick accents, but they think I sound like a "Yankee"! :) When I travel up North people generally can't tell where I'm from. But I do say y'all occasionally. :)

That's funny, I wonder how things would have been pronounced if Tolkein had been a Southerner. I always wonder about the teachers here trying to teach phonics to their students, for instance a long "i" is pronounced "ah" here! And a short a is "ay", as in ran being pronounced "RAYun". I wonder how Southerners pronounce some of the names in Quenya! I'll bet that would have sounded very strange to Tolkein. (Or those with a Northern accent, for that matter!)

[Earniel]

Oh Wayfarer, is it really? Hadn't noticed.:rolleyes:

[Wayfarer]

:D

In any case, I have no problem pronouncing it. But then, I manage just as well with the different nasals and spirants and miscellaneous bits of speech that seem to be unpopular these days.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I just pronounce it like two words-ent-moot. Like Wayfarer said. I have no problem pronouncing it.

Eowyn I've always said AY-oh-wen.

[Imladris]

I don't understand the problem you have with a two syllable word where the last letter of the first syllable is hard and the first of the last is hard. (That doesn't make it hard) You're ment to say it like it is- ENT-MOOT. Like two words except closer together in time.:) :) :).

[Elf Girl]

I sort of half-way leave out the T. It's hard to explain.

[galadriel88]

I also said Legolas without accenting the LEGOlas. I didn't say it like the building blocks. I guess I'm just weird.

Lego my Eggo! :D :p

I usually say it Ee - owin, Ee - omer, and Thee - oden. But ay is prolly right, oh well...

About Mordor - i usually say Mortar or something like that.

Me too, Elf Girl.

What about Galadriel? Is it GalADriel or GALadriel? I usually say the second one.

[Elf Girl]

I usually accent the AD.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I usually accent the AD.
So do I. And I roll the r. Sort of.

[Menelvagor]

I usually say EE-o-win, THEE-o-den, gal-AD-riel.

What about Legolas? I say leg-o-LAS.

[Ñólendil]

In "Legolas" according to Tolkien's rules the stress falls on the first syllable. If the "o" was long (ó), it would be on the second. Stress on the last syllable would be impossible according to Elvish rules.

You're right on the stress of "Galadriel". I'm not sure about Éowyn or Théoden, those are Old English.

[galadriel88]

I accent the leg part, so I guess I'm right on that one. But I guess I'll have to change my pronunciation of Galadriel...oh well....

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Not that we are required to pronounce things correctly. :)

Thanks for the information, o knowledgable one!

[galadriel88]

Yes, thank you Nolendil. The info was much appreciated.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf Not that we are required to pronounce things correctly.

I know, I do my Cs properly usually, but gave up with the dh in Caradhras.;)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Elf Girl


I know, I do my Cs properly usually, but gave up with the dh in Caradhras.;)

So have I--I never remember about that. . .

[azalea]

That's another one that's challenging to say correctly: ka-RRRAdth-rrras?

[Wayfarer]

The dh is a soft th, I believe.

so Kar-ad-thras. Actually, it would be close to Car-ad-hras. It's sort of hard to spell it out.

[Menelvagor]

If the dh is pronounced 'th' then it wouldn't be kar-ad-thras, it'd be karathras (however the syllyble breakdown goes), wouldn't it?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

:confused:





Is 90 seconds up yet?

[azalea]

I think the dh is supposed to be like a Spanish d or something, where the d is pronounced just slightly, the tongue barely touching the teeth, so the closest thing we'd have in English is a th sound, but it wouldn't be quite that "pronounced" a "th".

[Beleg Strongbow]

I had to change my pronunciation of "Cirdan."
I was saying it "sir-dan"
Who would have thought that it should be said "ki-er-dan"?

[Helix]

Yeah, like pal-in-tire and ke-le-born. kind of a wierd way to spell them.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

It's not that wierd--for the names like Cirdan and Celeborn, well, Tolkien didn't use the letter 'k' except in Dwarvish and the Black Speech. In Latin, 'k' doesn't exist. It makes sense. . .

[Beleg Strongbow]

I suppose it makes sense but those of us who speak english as a first language are more used to starting words with a K sound.

[Helix]

I guess.

[Arathorn]

I learned my english from school an Sesame Street. I can still remember when I was a kid asking why do 'C' had to sound like 's' sometimes.

In my native language, there are no 'C's by the way, only 'K's.

[Elf Girl]

Must be even harder for you then... *sigh* All in the name of Tolkien...*goes back to studying pronunciation*

[Arathorn]

Yeah, it took a while in college to "unlearn" some things but it's a good thing that you have to first identify that it's a Tolkien or Celtic word/name before using the 'C' as in Celeborn, Cirdan, Celebrimbor, etc.

[Earniel]

My language has both 'C's and 'K's. And the 'K' will always sound as 'K' but the 'C' can sound like 'K' but also like 'S'. It depends on the word.

However I always pronounced the 'C' in Tolkien's work as an 'S' untill one blessed morn (well actually it was a night) I came upon the pronounciation list in my copy of the Silmarillion.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I have read the pronunciation guide in the appendices quite a few times, which causes me to go around correcting people when they mispronounce things, and wince anytime I hear people say 'sele-born.' Which is stupid, because before I read the enlightening pronunciation guide, I did say it that way. That's the problem with knowledge. . .:)

[Arathorn]

Just don't go around asking people who their favorite kelebrity is or what kity they belong to or if they have a kellphone, etc.

[Beleg Strongbow]

Please, let's try to keep this a pun free environment.
Puns kan be toxik to Entmooters.

[Arathorn]

My apolojis. Dhey kan be pun prom thyme to thyme, dhow.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Oh, don't make the puns stop :)

My room has a really low keiling!

[Radagast The Brown]

My language has both 'C's and 'K's. And the 'K' will always sound as 'K' but the 'C' can sound like 'K' but also like 'S'. It depends on the word.

However I always pronounced the 'C' in Tolkien's work as an 'S' untill one blessed morn (well actually it was a night) I came upon the pronounciation list in my copy of the Silmarillion.
I'm from Israel and I don't know what is the different between C and K.:confused:

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I'm from Israel and I don't know what is the different between C and K.:confused:

It depends on your language. Some languages use no K, some use both etc.... My language uses both but gives them often - depending on the nature of the word - a different sound.

[azalea]

That is how it is in English. "Celery" is said with the "soft" c sound (in other words, it sounds like an s as in soft); "car" is pronounced with a "hard" c sound, in which case it sounds like a k (as in kitchen).
And then there's "ch" that can have a "k" sound, as in character; or it can be a digraph, as in cheese.

[Faramir]

I don't think Entmoot is hard to say.;)

[Rána Eressëa]

Entmoot . . . that is a vocal challenge to say.

[katya]

i also find entmoot hard to say. i usually say sort of an en (stop air) moo (stop air). if that makes any sense. not like enmoo though. someone mentioned mordor in the movie earlier. thats really weird. they say like, moherdorh. something i got wrong for a while was sauron i said it like sore-on but its really supposed to be sour-on. oh well. i think i say isildur wrong too. i say it like ISelder. whatever.

[johnnyrod]

I'm with Faramir, I don't have any trouble with "entmoot." As for the others Katya brought up, ther might be a hint of Spanish in there. Spanish pronounciation means every single letter (generally) as Katya described, rather than the English/French letter groupings. The other reason this popped into me head is that when the two groups of Orcs meet just after Frodo is bitten by Shelob, they greet each other with "Hola!" whih is also Spanish. This could all be a coincidence of course.

[Menelvagor]

The orcs greet eachother with 'hola'? *looks it up* Huh, whaddaya know, they do. :rolleyes: It doesn't seem like they'd be pronouncing it like in Spanish, though, I think they would voice the 'h'. That's interesting though, good call. :)

[Nurvingiel]

It's an Entish word, so don't be hasty. If you say it slowly it's easy! :D

[Khadrane]

Actually, it's not and Entish word- it's an English word. But it is easy to say if you say it slowly.:)