Arwen Expansion

[Film Hobbit]

Well... what do you guys think of the confirmation that Arwen's role will be expanded? At least we know now for sure it will happen.

Now we only are left to wonder how much? I dearly hope that PJ didn't get it into his head to combine her with anothe character as I suspect... please please please NO.

[IronParrot]

Well, she is being "combined" with Glorfindel.

And it was said that all the expansion involving her really stems from Appendix A - probably through more allusions to her past with Aragorn.

I'm fine with that, if it doesn't disturb the flow of the story as presented in the film...

[Gilthalion]

What IP said!

[Film Hobbit]

Hey IP, how do you know for certain she is being combined with Glorfindel? I mean I suspect it myself, but haven't been able to find confirmation on it.

[Leonides]

He doesn't know, because it isn't true. Arwen is at the Fords WITH Glorfindel, she does not take his place. That whole portion of the storyline is the same as the book except Arwen rides with Frodo across the Fords instead of him going alone.

Glorfindel is definetly in though, both at the Fords and the Council of Elrond. There's even a pic of him on the official site seated next to Legolas at the Council.

As for Arwen's expanded role, most of it is just to give her a more visual appearence in the movies, her character really hasn't been changed.

From what we can gather:

FOTR

1. Arwen does the Ford thing I described above
2. She gets a few extra scenes in Rivendel that were not in the book with Aragorn and Elrond, this is to establish her story.
3. She remains out of the picture for the rest of the movie.

TTT

1. Arwen arrives at Helm's Deep with the Grey Company (who will bring Elves with them) carrying Aragorn's banner. She may or may not arrive before the battle. She will not fight, however.
2. Arwen retreats to the caves with the Rohirrim people to remain safe.

ROTK
1. She arrives for Aragorn's coronation (in the books she wasn't there for that)
2. It is rumoured we shall see Aragorn's death (and her's as well) some point in the film. This comes from a line of dialog that we know is spoken that comes directly from the Appendix and refers to Aragorn dying.

[Film Hobbit]

Again, how do you know all this for certain? Some we know, some is rumor and guess.

In a recent interview... ****... I think at IGN.. forgot now, was like 2 weeks ago, Peter Jackson confirmed that Arwen's role HAS been expanded, though from the way he said it, not drastically so.

[Leonides]

Trust me, Film Hobbit. These things are certain. Many have been confirmed and others I simply know. The Glorfindel thing I've reported before at other forums and was recently confirmed at www.theonering.net

I know.

[Elanor and Niphrodel]

*sighs* well thats a load off :) i was thinking "oh man they're gonna screw it up, i know it" but thank Iru! :p

[Film Hobbit]

I love people who come on message boards and expect everyone to believe that somehow they know more about a film than anyone else.

If you want people to believe what you are saying, back it up.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone come on and say, "this is so, trust me I know" and they ended up not having a friggin clue, a very rich Hobbit I would be.

[Michael Martinez]

For those of you who are not aware, Leonides has been answering questions about the movies in another forum. I do not know him personally and cannot vouch for him on that level, but I have found his answers to fan questions to be well-constructed and in line with many things I have heard through other sources, some online and some offline.

The final appearance of the movies is really still up in the air. Peter has cut "The Fellowship of the Ring", and though he expects to have "The Return of the King" finished before "The Two Towers" hits the theaters, I don't believe he has gotten as far as cutting "The Two Towers" yet.

Leonides has offered a few grains of salt with his answers. As far as movie spies/scouts goes, he's as trustworthy as anyone on the Net may independently be deemed, in my opinion. That doesn't mean everything will turn out as he says, but I don't feel he has been trying to deceive people.

[Inoldonil]

thanks alot Leo! I'm very glad to hear that, it's quite the revelation. I trust ya.

[Film Hobbit]

Michael, I could produce just as many net spies saying exactly the OPPOSITE of what Leo says.

Net spies, no matter how well intentioned, are pretty much unreliable... especially when they are unable to or unwilling to back up their claims.

[Michael Martinez]

Yes, but I am pretty sure a lot of what Leo is saying is on the money or close to it. For one thing, most of what he has shared with people has already been confirmed through other sources.

Just using John Forde's E! Online reports as a source, someone could put together a pretty good examination of the movies and provide a lot of clues about what will be in them. The Tolkien movie sites are good about reporting updates at E! Online, but they seldom offer analysis of Forde's revelations.

I used to write some for Xenite.Org but got tired of doing it. And there is more information coming out through other sources now, too.

And I have heard some things privately, or offline. It's not like Leo is guaranteeing anyone that anything in particular will happen. But when he writes with an air of authority, he is doing no differently from any of the rest of us. He just expresses more confidence in what he is saying.

[mercyfish]

While one can debate the veracity of Leonides information, it will really only be proved out with time.

To me a more intersting route for the conversation to take is how people view the changes he outline. I for don't find them top egregious. Though her involvement in the Flight to Ford does make me a little bit queasy.

Bob

[Michael Martinez]

Queasy? Why? Because Arwen reportedly accompanies Glorfindel? I would say that's a stroke of genius, except I got mad about the full plate armor last October and vowed not to defend these movies again. :)

I'm going to watch them in the theaters, love them, and forgive all the departures from Tolkien. Because, quite frankly, there ain't nothing anyone can do about it now nohow.

Darned few of us ever had a shot at getting any input into the movies, and those of us who did have a shot didn't have a chance of getting them to be completely faithful to the books.

At least, I was never asked to make a case for doing so. I really don't understand why people agonize over minor stuff like Arwen when, if they really wanted to rail against the Tolkien departures, they ignore the worst sins.

We all have strange priorities in other people's eyes.

[mercyfish]

Believe me, I am not losing sleep over any of this. A film ain't a book and so forth and so on.

It makes me queasy because that is one of my favorite passages in the book, and I see no clear reason to change it. I don't have any problem playing up the romance, in fact I happen to think it is a good thing. It just might take some convincing for me to accept this one bit. If the movie is good I will certainly be convinced. :)

[Fat middle]

hmmmm, this thread is making me trustful in these movies again...

hmmmm, do not be hasty...

[Leonides]

Good attitude, Mercyfish.

[X Rogue]

I'm just going to sit back and see what happens, myself. I got tired of driving myself crazy with my OWN speculations, never mind everyone else's speculations. I hope they don't go off into changing things just to change them, or just to be politically correct, but I do not think that has happened. So I will now go and distract myself as best I may until December 2001 rolls around. That is all. :)

[Film Hobbit]

I actually agree with Michael :) Having Arwen ACCOMPANY another character to increase her screen time is a WONDERFUL way to make us more attached to her character without materially changing the story in any way.

Certainly I prefer it as is, however I also understand PJ's desire to make a more present female role in the film. We live in times VERY different from that of Tolkien's, and most women expect to see strong female characters in films like this.

[Fat middle]

i agree with you, FilmHobbit but in one thing: the problem is not what women expect to see in a movie nowadays, but what works better in a movie from a comercial point of view: a film with a love story is more comercial than a film merely based on a fight for power or a meditation on death and immortality...

[Film Hobbit]

And its more commercially viable because that's what women want and expect to see. ;)

[The Dagda]

I find myself dreading to see Arwen carrying Frodo upon Asfaloth across the Ford. This is the scene where Frodo stands alone in defiance of the leader of the Nazgul. "Come back, come back, to Mordor we will take you". It is one of the most memorable and frightening scenes from the book; Frodo brandishing his fiery Barrow blade which shatters under the spell of the Witch King as Frodo swoons and falls from the horse, to lie upon the bank and dimly see the dark shapes of his companions and the blazing figure of Glorfindel as they drive the Nazgul into the flood. So Arwen will do this instead, protecting the injured Hobbit? This is one scene that Bakshi got right (with the exception of Glorfindel). Frodo faces the Witch King alone, not with the help of Aragorn's betrothed nor anyone else.

[Film Hobbit]

What you said is not cofirmed Dag... and some indications have said it is not so.

[Inoldonil]

Wow. You've got to have balls to call yourself The Dagda. Or a bulbous head, or both.

[easterlinge]

Dagda is Celtic god/goddess isn't it? Like Danu, or Cernunnos?

Yes, I read "Slaine".

Where was I?

I forget.

[Inoldonil]

Yep

[captain napalm 77]

I'm not too sure if anyone has posted this yet, but I found it at TORN.

It's a pretty big image, so I won't post it, but here's the link -
www.theonering.net/movie/s****book/large/1075 (http://www.theonering.net/movie/s****book/large/1075)

I assume this is the Fords scene.

[easterlinge]

Does Arwen really look like that? Pointy ears and odd dress?

And that sword!!!! I thought the difference between Elf and human weapons was in its quality and magic, not its outward design and appearance. I always imagined Glamdring, orcrist and sting to be standard looking straight double-edged blades, what people call cruciform swords much used in medieval Europe. Apart from glowing in the dark, they would look like Mannish weapons.

[Michael Martinez]

Does Arwen really look like that? Pointy ears and odd dress?

Peter Jackson's Arwen looks that way.

And that sword!!!! I thought the difference between Elf and human weapons was in its quality and magic, not its outward design and appearance. I always imagined Glamdring, orcrist and sting to be standard looking straight double-edged blades, what people call cruciform swords much used in medieval Europe. Apart from glowing in the dark, they would look like Mannish weapons.

Middle-earth is not based on medieval Europe, however, so there is no need for anyone to limit themselves to medieval-style swords. In fact, the descriptions Tolkien gives of his swords tend to be very generic.

I did some Elvish sword research for an artist at WETA a couple of years ago and I can assure you that there is nothing in the book relating to Elvish weapons which endorses any particular kind of style.

There is a certain elegance to Arwen's sword which, I think, has an Elvish feel to it. It's artistic and expressive, and Tolkien stated more than once that the Elves were artistic.

[easterlinge]

I saw one of the other pictures (Aragorn & Arwen together in Rivendell I think).... I think Aragorn looks a bit like Meat Loaf :lol: !!! Probably the picture was stretched sideways a little...

[Leonides]

The pic you saw (and I saw) was captioned incorrectly. That was Elrond, not Aragorn.

[Film Hobbit]

So Elrond looks like Meatloaf?? Not sure that is really better.

[Leonides]

Haven't you scene pics of Elrond? He doesn't look like meatloaf.

[Film Hobbit]

No no no. not meatloaf... Meatloaf.

[easterlinge]

I've been relying too much on Ted Nasmith's illustrations for what Middle-Earth looked like. Sorry. Guess we all have licence on how to imagine Middle-earth.

Wait a minute... that guy was ELROND, not Aragorn? I know Elrond's supposed to be old, but.... Elrond with stubble? Are you sure that's Elrond?

[Leonides]

Stubble? No stubble!

If you wanna see good pics of the characters, go to the official site!

www.lordoftherings.net (http://www.lordoftherings.net)

[easterlinge]

You're right, that WAS Elrond. :lol:

Aragorn looks a lot better, fortunately. Why did Elrond wear his hair like that? I thought he would be well-groomed.

Hey... Faramir is blond? :lol:

[Inoldonil]

He looks well groomed to me.

[easterlinge]

I meant in the picture of Arwen and Elrond together. I didn't really think Elrond had shoulder length hair, but it looks untidy.

[anduin]

This is from E! Online: ......it's likely that Gladdy (Galadriel) will appear in Film One, when she meets the Fellowship, and at the end of Film Three, for Aragorn (Viggo Mortensen) and Arwen's (Liv Tyler) coronation and the Grey Havens scenes.

Aragorn and Arwen's coronation?? Does this seem strange to anyone else? Could they be getting married before he is crowned?? Even Elrond says to Aragorn: "Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor." Maybe the reporter meant to say wedding. Besides, Galadriel wasn't at his coronation. Have I missed something about how they are handling the wedding and/or coronation in the movie?

[Darth Tater]

I think you've missed something about how they're handling the movie and the respect (ha!) for Tolkien that they obviously have

[Inoldonil]

It might just be a mistake on the part of E! Online's 'expert'. He makes some mistakes. If that is the same one who mentioned Gandalf's white shining palantir at the end of his staff a while ago.

[easterlinge]

"Gandalf's white shining palantir at the end of his staff a while ago. "

:lol: That's supposed to be Raistlin majere right? He's getting the wizards mixed up.