Eowyn or Arwen?

[Aragollwen]

Which is your faveorite?

[Durlomiel]

Eowyn. Arwen seems more like the typical princessy woman, "Oh Aragorn, I'll be happy to sit here in Rivendell and sew your standard. Go off to war like a good boy." Eowyn's character has more depth.

[BeardofPants]

Damn, I wish there were more female characters to choose from .... Oh well, if I have to choose between those two, I guess it would be Eowyn... Now where's a stick, so I can beat myself senseless?

[Elf Girl]

Eowyn, she has a little bit of everything. Drama, romance, tragedy...she even dies at one point!

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

Eowyn. Without a dout. Arwen is cool, yea, but I really like basket cases better, they are so much more interesting!

[StrawberryIcecream]

Eowyn. Though I don't like the wayshe falls in love with Faramir so quickly, she seems a girl power kinda girl which though i am not a big fan of that its better than Arwen, who like Duro said, seems to be more of a Dinner'll be on the table when you get home from Helm's Deepd kinda elf.

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Damn, I wish there were more female characters to choose from .... Oh well, if I have to choose between those two, I guess it would be Eowyn... Now where's a stick, so I can beat myself senseless?

My feelings exactly.

[eowyn144]

Eowyn. No questions asked. Just look at my name for example. I think it was the killing of the Nazgul King that clinches it for me.And the rebellious side of her. She wasn't just going to sit around waiting for news of the wars to come back, she was willing to get out there and do something about it.Go Eowyn!

[Radagast The Brown]

I like Arwen more then Eowyn. I guess it's becouse she's elf... but I still like her more then Eowyn.

[Ërendil]

Eowyn. no questions asked. dont like Arwen.

[Comic Book Guy]

dont like Arwen.

If you don't mind me asking, why?

[Khamûl]

Eowyn. Arwen didn't do much, and I like Eowyn's sense of action. I mean, she took down the head Nazgûl for heaven's sakes. And Arwen sewed a banner. Definitely Eowyn.

[Elfhelm]

I like Eowyn. I would let her travel in my company in disguise if necesary.

[Rána Eressëa]

Eowyn. Heh . . . I get the feeling Eowyn is winning. ;)

[Liviaine]

It would be Arwen, because she's an elf, and I love the pairing of Aragorn and Arwen. But Eowyn has so much more depth to her character, and I like what happens to her, especially as Dernhelm. Of all the female characters, my favorite's actually Galadriel.

[Menelvagor]

Well ordinarily I would say Eowyn for all the reasons everyone else has said, but I'm going to say Arwen just to play devil's advocate. And puting aside all anti-livingas sentiment for the movie Arwen, she's ok. The difference between the two is kind of mental vs. physical, Eowyn is a more physical, fighting, butt-kicking type of person (THAT's an understatement :) ) and Arwen helps out on a more spiritual, intellectual, elvish plane. You have to remember that she was not raised, like Eowyn, as a shieldmaiden, and her help was rather is stengthening the will of Aragorn; adding her stength to his and giving him something, hm, more tangable, to work towards. Also, she had to have been pretty strong on an emotional level to give up her imortality.

Also, I really like her in the appendices, they portray her much better. When she goes alone to Lorien *sob* I think it really captures the sadness of the elves.

[Arathorn]

Eowyn. She's closer to my age group (double digits). Heheh.:D

[Aragollwen]

Okay, person who started this thread. Eowyn. Though some very good arguments have been fought in Arwen's favor so far... I tell you, my friend Ivan would really like this!
Eowyn just has so much more character than Arwen.

[Nazgûl Queen]

I love them both in different ways.
Arwens so beautiful and pure and delicate and ELVISH, but Eowyn is so strong and brave and independent.

But I think the thing that makes me choose Eowyn overall is because she's like Eponine - both love someone who loves another and would do anything for them, both put on an outward show of being strong (although I'm sure that Eowyn, like Ponine, is very delicate, lonely and easily hurt on the inside), both are extremely brave, and both would willingly die for the person they love unrequitedly, or out of despair because that love is unreturned.
Except Eponine would never love anyone other than Marius.

(Incase you didn't notice, I'm obsessed with Ponine & les Mis as much as i am with LotR)

[Earniel]

Not an easy choice. Although I would more likely choose Eowyn, I think I don't know enough about Arwen to justify that choice. And I refuse to choose with the movie as reference. I only wish Tolkien had written more about Arwen.

[cassiopeia]

Eowyn is definately better than Arwen. What did Arwen do when the war of the ring was on? Stayed at home. At least Eowyn had the guts to go out and fight against the dark lord. I know that Aragorn and Arwen's family tree makes them the perfect couple and it probably couldn't be any other way, it would have cool it Aragorn and Eowyn got together.

[Ërendil]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy


If you don't mind me asking, why?

She just seems too perfect and delicate and i personally dont like that type of girl. Too stereotypical. Eowyn was much better, with a more in depth character. That is the book reason anyway.

[olsonm]

Arwen wasn't invented until Tolkien was almost done with Lotr and he didn't want to rewrite the book just to fit Arwen in. That's why most of her stuff is in the appends. I don't think we know enough about Arwen to say with certainty what she would have done with a more active role.
I agree that Eowyn outshines Arwen (and lots of others too!) that's why she one of my favs.

[Elvellon]

I too prefer Eowyn. Her character is much more developed.

[RosieCotton]

Eowyn. We known about her more as a person and she is much more developed. She goes out and does things, she kicks butt like the best of them. I wish more was said about Arwen, then I would probably appriciate her much more.
Rosie

[sun-star]

Arwen. She seems girly and weak, but she must have a lot of inner strength to give up immortality and her father to marry Aragorn. Also, it can't be easy to sit at home and do nothing while the man you love is in great danger and the whole world is under threat - just because she doesn't abandon her people and her duty to go and fight doesn't mean she isn't brave. Eowyn annoys me, she's too self-centred, although the killing of the Nazgul King is really cool. :)

[Wulažg]

Arwen definitely, since I like elves more than humans. Beauty should be delicate anyway.

[Aragorns Dimple]

I began a thread around two months ago asking the same question, but more from a "who's the better babe for Aragorn?" point of view. I was puzzled by his choice of Arwen, but I guess their story was never really told in FULL detail. Anyway, there's bunch of other opinions on Arwen and Eowyn there if anyone is interested in investigating further.

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3581

:)

[Beleg Strongbow]

Well, I would have to go with Arwen from the Elves v Humans standpoint. Also Arwen never gets crushes on powerful guys just because.

[Maydall]

I'd prefer Arwen...there wasn't much of her in the books but hey she got Aragorn.....a BIG plus:p

[Radagast The Brown]

I will arrange the thread. til now:

Eowyn: 19
Arwen: 7
and I'm still with Arwen!!!!

[Shadowfax]

Éowyn is definately my favourite. In that scene in the Two Towers when Aragorn is about to go off to the Paths of the Dead and Éowyn wants to go with him, that was when I was like, 'okay this girl is really a great character: brave, passionate, deep. It was when she fell to her knees and pleaded with Aragorn to let her come along: "I beg thee!" she said! That was what hooked me into her character. Wow.

[Handmaiden of Yavanna]

Poor Arwen. It seems a mortal has beat her in likability. Good for her Aragorn didn't think the same way.

By the way, I'm with Eowyn! GO NAZGUL KICKIN CHICKS EVERYWHERE!!!

(No offense Nazgul Queen, when I say nazgul in that term I mean male nazguls.)

[Nazgûl Queen]

None taken.
I also like her for being a human with the courage, skill and faith to defeat one of my brethren.

[Glorfindel]

Eowyn.:) Eowyn's cool!

[crickhollow]

Eowyn didn't have courage, she had a death wish.

Also, don't knock the banner! The standard and the standard bearer are key elements in battle. Theoden didn't go for the standard bearer because there was no one more powerful around at the moment, he knew that once the banner fell, the soldiers would easily scatter. They could be cut off from the main body. The fighting force could be penetrated because the soldiers wouldn't be able to rally together.

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I like Arwen more then Eowyn. I guess it's becouse she's elf... but I still like her more then Eowyn.

How could you pick arwen over Eowyn?:) She rules!

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by TwirlingString

How could you pick arwen over Eowyn?:) She rules!

I think the question here isn't how, it's why. and the answer is because I liked her more then Eowyn!!!

[TwirlingString]

Sorry, sorry, didn't mean to strick a nerve. (jeez) She is an ok character, but I still like mine more.

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Éowyn is definately my favourite. In that scene in the Two Towers when Aragorn is about to go off to the Paths of the Dead and Éowyn wants to go with him, that was when I was like, 'okay this girl is really a great character: brave, passionate, deep. It was when she fell to her knees and pleaded with Aragorn to let her come along: "I beg thee!" she said! That was what hooked me into her character. Wow.

that was a good scence. I think that's what got me hooked on her too!:D

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
Eowyn is definately better than Arwen. What did Arwen do when the war of the ring was on? Stayed at home. At least Eowyn had the guts to go out and fight against the dark lord. I know that Aragorn and Arwen's family tree makes them the perfect couple and it probably couldn't be any other way, it would have cool it Aragorn and Eowyn got together.

Why do we tend to go for characters like that? I like her too, but she got seriously hurt.

[FrodoFriend]

Eowyn!

Mainly because Arwen had about zero part in the book, so it's hard to like her - not much personality. Plus I sympathize with Eowyn.

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
Eowyn!

Mainly because Arwen had about zero part in the book, so it's hard to like her - not much personality. Plus I sympathize with Eowyn.
You have a point there. She might have been likeable if there ahd been more off her.

[BeardofPants]

*Unleashes some more fire ants*

[TwirlingString]

Why are you following me?

[TinuvielChild]

i would say Eowyn, because of a few things (shieldmaiden factor, sheer "there"-ness, and movie-Arwen), but Arwen is a really cool character. Compared to Arwen, Eowyn hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell. I mean, look at who her ancestors were, just on her father's mother's side! Luthien Tinuviel. Dior, Heir of Thingol. Melian the Maia. and a bloody Noldorian King, Elu Thingol! (previously known as Elwe). i'm not even going to go into the other side of her family (Galadriel, Finarfin..:))!

plus, Arwen is even more beautiful than the Lady Galadriel, and she is sometimes thought to be Luthien Tinuviel, the most beautiful woman ever to walk Arda, returned to life. And she gets to be Queen of Gondor and married to Aragorn. Eowyn? HA! I laugh...mwahahahaha!!!

[FrodoFriend]

Yeah, but . . . I don't know, Arwen's just kind of boring. She has no presence, and no problems. I love Eowyn because she's so desperate and strong-willed. She's human (I mean in spirit, not in race), and so much easier to identify with.

[TinuvielChild]

true FF. but what the heck, Arwen is under-represented on this thread I think. so yeah, Eowyn is cool, fiery slay-Ringwraith-y marry-Farawin-y Xena type gal. Arwen is ELVISH!!!!! mwahahahaha...

[TwirlingString]

Elves are cool. But only when they have some interest factor. If they do nothing (as when They are dreaming- Mercedes Lackey reference) they are extremely boring. Why does everyone love the ears? Or is it just the idea of elves?

[Earniel]

Wait until you read the Disc World variant of elves. Uk, scary.

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Wait until you read the Disc World variant of elves. Uk, scary.

I have, they were. They tried to take over Granny's mind, and used mirror magic. They were beaten up when the queen to be put on the helmet of one of the warror queend

[cassiopeia]

I know Arwen has an awesome ancestory, but doesn't matter to me. I can sympathise with Eowyn cause I would go out to battle like her and I know what it is like to be in love with a guy who doens't want you.:mad:

[TwirlingString]

What does the ancestory have to do with anything, it doesn't say anything about her.

[Wulažg]

It doesn't necessarily tell you anything but combine it with accounts of her and she is really nilda(sorry elvish). Arwen vanimelda Namárië (LoRI 367)

[Bilbo Baggins]

I would personally go for someone like Eowyn. Having said that, i am happy with who I have at the moment. :o

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

Eowyn!!!! Duh. Proof!

Book- 1.Ok well you guys all say arwen was going to give up her immotilty for aragorn. EOWYN WAS GOING TO DIE FOR HIM!!! NOT LIVE FOR ANOTHER 121 YEARS AND THEN DIE. INSTENTLY DIE.
2. Who styed at home wif her daddy? WHO RODE IN BATTLE AGENST THE #2 EVIL GUY, AND ALMOST KILLED HERSELF IN THE PROCESS.

Movie- 1. ARWEN STOLE GLORFINDELS PART!!!!! GO GLORFINDEL!!!
2. WHAT IF ARWEN'S CLUMSY LITTLE HAND HAD SLIPPED AN THAT SWORD HAD KILLED ARAGORN?!! SHE HAS GOT TO BE MORE CAREFUL!!

[Menelvagor]

Originally posted by Aragorn_iz_cool
Eowyn!!!! Duh. Proof!

Book- 1.Ok well you guys all say arwen was going to give up her immotilty for aragorn. EOWYN WAS GOING TO DIE FOR HIM!!! NOT LIVE FOR ANOTHER 121 YEARS AND THEN DIE. INSTENTLY DIE.


Hm, but Eowyn didn't really want to die for Aragorn, to me that always just seemed like an afterthought, a plausible excuse. My perception of it has always been that she just wanted to die in general. I think her main objective was not to be forced into the housewife's role, even if the house was the House of Eorl. Aragorn was just the catalyst.

Hm, I dunno, maybe that's just the way I saw it...

[Menelvagor]

Ah, a quote to back me up...

Aragorn: 'I left her desperate in Dunharrow and rode the Pathes of the Dead; and no fear upon that way was so present as the fear for what might befall her. And yet, Eomer, I say to you that she loves you more truely than me; for you she loves and knows; but in me she loves only a shadow and a thought: a hope of glory and great deeds, in lands far from the feilds of Rohan.'

[TwirlingString]

I don't think anyone ever MEANS to die for someone, it just happens.

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

OK You have a point there. But I bet Arwen only gave up her immortility and married King Elesser so she could be famous for thousands of years to come. And that way more people would admire her "great beuty".

[Menelvagor]

Originally posted by Aragorn_iz_cool
OK You have a point there. But I bet Arwen only gave up her immortility and married King Elesser so she could be famous for thousands of years to come. And that way more people would admire her "great beuty".

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not :rolleyes: .

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by Aragorn_iz_cool
OK You have a point there. But I bet Arwen only gave up her immortility and married King Elesser so she could be famous for thousands of years to come. And that way more people would admire her "great beuty".

i don't think that was the reason (weakly with mild amazement at your cynicism)

[Menelvagor]

I think Eowyn is a really cool character, but up against Arwen she just seems like a child. Arwen had been around for several thousand years and decided to give up literally everything for Aragorn (includeing her life). Eowyn wanted to get out of the house.

Eowyn is much easier to relate to, she is altogether human and her weaknesses are the things that endear her to us, but still, Eowyn vs. Arwen? no chance IMO.

(this is why Liv Tyler is so evil, btw, she's turned Arwen into Eowyn, ugh)

[TwirlingString]

Eowyn does seem like a child, but that just makes her interesting. What does IMO mean? As for giving up everything, of course she did, how could she not?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I'd have to say Eowyn. Both characters have their good points, and although Arwen isn't in the story much, there are other good points to people rather than just battle-readiness. And Arwen is an elf. . .but besides that, I would say Eowyn because. . .well...(I sense Tano laughing madly right now)...I can relate to her character more.

[Blackheart]

Pffft. Arwen. Bah, she gave up immortal life to marry some long legged 'uman out of the woods who was 1/100th her age, and then when he dies, she realizes she did an oopsie.

Nar- gimmie a sheild maiden any day. Eowyn was blonde too- that counts for more than dainty elf feet any day in my book :D

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Pffft. Arwen. Bah, she gave up immortal life to marry some long legged 'uman out of the woods who was 1/100th her age, and then when he dies, she realizes she did an oopsie.

Nar- gimmie a sheild maiden any day. Eowyn was blonde too- that counts for more than dainty elf feet any day in my book :D

Actually, he's more closer to about 1/20th of her age.

But I argree. Give me a shield maiden any day.

[Blackheart]

What? you spectin da ork to do fractions now? :rolleyes:

I use my head to bang on da keyboard and mak wurds!

[Arathorn]

I think you just did use fractions. Sorry for expectin da ork ta use more accurate fractions.:rolleyes:

[Blackheart]

Fractions? that little slashy thingy? Ooooh- My head hurts now....

[azalea]

"Don't pretend that goblins can't count. They can."

[TwirlingString]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Pffft. Arwen. Bah, she gave up immortal life to marry some long legged 'uman out of the woods who was 1/100th her age, and then when he dies, she realizes she did an oopsie.

Nar- gimmie a sheild maiden any day. Eowyn was blonde too- that counts for more than dainty elf feet any day in my book :D

You may be right, oh well, living forever would be boring anyway. Humans always wanna live forever because of avid curiosity, we wanna know what's next. Bt watching history repeat over nd over again would drive everyone crazy

[Wulažg]

Since when did orks care for blond hair? Aren't you more concerned about how many warts they have?

[Blackheart]

Noo- blondes scream in a higher key ;)

[Wulažg]

But there are lots of blondes with deep voices. You would think that shield maidens would be pretty masculine anyway. Arwen would be the most vulnerable by far. Except in the movie, where Eowyn is probably a wuss;)

[Elf Girl]

Galadriel was blonde, but her voice was "deeper than a woman's wont".

[Wulažg]

See? People agree with me.:p

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Wulažg
. Except in the movie, where Eowyn is probably a wuss;)

Should I assume, by that statement, that you have not seen the trailer? She is definitely not a wuss....okay, shutting up now. ;)

[Blackheart]

Your human ears just can't detect the subtle high pitch variations :rolleyes:

[Wulažg]

Hey, hey, none with the insults;)

[Lady of Darkness]

Personally I choose...................a mixture of both. I mean, Arwen's Elfiness and Eowyn's death.

[Blackheart]

Pfft. I called you human, what else could be more insulting? :confused:

[Elf Girl]

I will know insult Blackheart. Blackheart: ELF!!!

[Radagast The Brown]

It's not an insult. I like the elves! they are good!
this is an insult - ork!!!
don't insult, it was an example!

[Elf Girl]

It's an insult to Blackheart, an orc. I like Elves too. :)

[Radagast The Brown]

didn't meant to insult... :(
good. you like the elves. but you don't have to insult with them, don't you!?! :mad:

[Blackheart]

Ahaha - Insult me again!

Agh Bagdug gimbat-ishi ghâsh krimpa ologglob snaga.

Skai-glob!


:mad:

[Wulažg]

What do you mean human, I'm with Ungoliant;)

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
good. you like the elves. but you don't have to insult with them, don't you!?! :mad:

I couldn't think of anything better to insult an Orc with...

Blackheart: ELF!!! ELF!!! ELF!!!

[BeardofPants]

Wrests thread back on topic: So, Arwen, or Eowyn? Most people seem to favour the human, over the elf. Could this be subliminal racism, or am I just making up a pile of guano to justify my posting here?

PS - If you really want to annoy orcs, just withold their killing privileges.

[Elf Girl]

It is not racism, it's just that this particular Elf is rather boring. I like Elves. :)

[Blackheart]

Pffft.

*Kills a small furry animal*

Elves taste like ashes, prance around, and can't go to the bathroom without using sanitary seat covers.

At least 'umans get good and sweaty when you chase 'em.

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Wrests thread back on topic: So, Arwen, or Eowyn? Most people seem to favour the human, over the elf. Could this be subliminal racism, or am I just making up a pile of guano to justify my posting here?


If you changed Arwen to Luthien or Galadriel, I'd probably choose the elf.

[Elf Girl]

Yeah. If any racism is involved, it's against humans.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I'm usually more in favor of elves...not rascism...okay, maybe a little (:D) but in the case of Arwen vs. Eowyn, I say Eowyn because it's a case of individual character, and there are a number of reasons why I like Eowyn's character better. If I were choosing between two different characters, one elf and one human, it might be different.

[Wulažg]

Yeah, so some of us just prefer the character of Arwen, no matter how little she was developed(please no word play)

[Radagast The Brown]

yeah. and in the moovie I'll definetly prefer Arwen. they gave her bigger part. And I didn't really liked Eowyn. She is anoying me!!! I don't know why, but she is...

[Earniel]

It's not racism that's involved here. It's speciesm:D

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Eärniel
It's not racism that's involved here. It's speciesm:D

Inter-speciesism, and I do stand corrected.

[Wulažg]

In the movie at least they got the right person for Arwen, she doesn't look messed up. I've got to see the TT trailer. :rolleyes:

Eowyn for some reason just doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather hhave the elf.

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Blackheart
Pffft.

*Kills a small furry animal*

Oh no! Tell me you haven't just killed Gerbil!!! Gerbil, are you alive??!

[Arwen4ever]

WHO CAN HAT ARWEN????????:confused:

[Elf Girl]

Someone who has seen the movie. "If you want him, come and claim him!" Urgh.

[azalea]

Arwen is fine in the book, her character just isn't developed much. Unlike many people here, I had no problem with her in the movie. I thought her looks (although a little young) were fine and although it was annoying that they changed so many things in the movie, it didn't affect my enjoyment of it. I took it for what it was -- a way to develop her character to highlight the romance between her and Aragorn.
It may not be the way I would have done it, but I didn't mind too much the way it was done.
Eowyn -- remains to be seen.;)

[Wulažg]

It's the principal(with the movie). All the elves were downright mean. Elrond, Haldir(he was supposed to be mean I guess), Galadriel never got to be nice with the gifts, Arwen was "tough", and it shouldn't be like that. It annoys me to no end:mad:

[TwirlingString]

What about, Legolas? But then again, tinuvielChild got the lines for the movie and he had like 13 short ones

[Liviaine]

I agree with you, azalea. I liked Eowyn in the trailer, too.

[TwirlingString]

You write fanfics?

[TinuvielChild]

Originally posted by TwirlingString
What about, Legolas? But then again, tinuvielChild got the lines for the movie and he had like 13 short ones

17, actually. *shrug*. for me, i picked Arwen over Eowyn. it was a tie originally, but then i considered family ties, and ARWEN ALL THE WAY!!! in the movie, she does usurp Glorfindel's role and steal his horse, and she is such a Mary Sue, but she's all right. I reserve judgement on Eowyn in the movie until December. i have seen the trailer, but that's still not enough to judge her by.

besides, i am TinuvielChild. i am related to Arwen. who am i going to pick? DUH, Arwen!!! :)

[TinuvielChild]

Originally posted by crickhollow


Oh no! Tell me you haven't just killed Gerbil!!! Gerbil, are you alive??!

um crickhollow, i think we may be out of luck. tell me, when was the last time you saw Gerbil on the boards? i haven't seen him around in a very long time. i think we may have to hang his homicide on Blackheart. :( :(



;) no seriously, anyone know what became of Gerbil?

[Radagast The Brown]

I didn't see him lots of time... I guess he won't return. He little pet...:(

[Ërendil]

I am confused now
I have seen the trailer and i dont think that Eowyn looks right...i may change my judgement on her after i have seen the second movie. However that doesn't help me like Arwen any better. I prefer elves to humans (or men) but Arwen just annoys me, like Eowyn does to Radagast the brown. She was ok in the book, but very under developed. I think that i dont like her because she is going to be involved too much in the next too films and ruining the story line.

[Wulažg]

You're right. I'm just so mad since they cut out Glorfindel and Bombadil

grrrrrr:mad:

[Wulažg]

But then they butchered ALL of the elves. She was the least uheredof them all in the movie(that's not saying much though). It's just that I know people who are much more elvish than the ones in the movie.:rolleyes:

[Becka]

Hands down , my favorite has to be Eowyn. I think she is a much stronger character then Arwen.
I hope the movie stays true to Eowyn's role in the next film, or at least a little close to it.:rolleyes:

[Arathorn]

Welcome to the moot, Becka!

YAy! one more point for Eowyn.:)

[IronParrot]

Eowyn isn't just my favourite of the two, she's probably my favourite character in the entire book. Like Frodo in a sense, she has an air of idealistic adventure about her that leads her to discover the harsh realities of the struggle against evil, and in the end pacifies her and leads her to discover inner peace. And in the process, she learns so much about herself. It's a perhaps understated, certainly underrated heroine's journey that she goes through.

The next film, if the trailer and other news we have heard are any indication, is going to take Eowyn's "offstage" relations with Aragorn and Grima and put them onstage. And I love it.

[Arathorn]

I agree. If there are moments when PJ needs to expand on to what the Prof. wrote, I think this is one of them. Role expansion is one thing, chanign what was explicitly written from the source is another.

[BeardofPants]

I'd forsake either of them in a second, for a good cup of coffee.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I didn't see him lots of time... I guess he won't return. He little pet...:(

No worries, I think I noticed some recent posts of him in another thread. We ain't rid of the little rodent yet! :D

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'd forsake either of them in a second, for a good cup of coffee.

Do sheep even like coffee? I always thought they stuck to grass.;)

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Eärniel

Do sheep even like coffee? I always thought they stuck to grass.;)

Yeah, better stick to pipe weed BoPeep.:rolleyes:

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by Wulažg

You're right. I'm just so mad since they cut out Glorfindel and Bombadil

grrrrrr:mad:
Ha!!! Just because they (the directors) cut the parts of Bombadil and Glorfindel doesn't mean that Arwen isn't a good character in the book.

[JenniferTook]

Which do I like better, Arwen or Eowyn? Well....I know that immediately, but I can see why it would be hard choice.

I think I like Eowyn better because she is easier to identify with. I have experienced unrequited love a lot, but never eternal life....lol. Eowyn goes through very human reactions to her circumstances and yet still shows bravery and loyalty. She was forced to watch her father figure almost waste away and yet she never left until he was better. She had to endure not having what she felt to be the love of her life. You feel her bravery, but when she runs away to the army, hoping for death, you still feel sympathy for her. Who's to say that in her situation, we wouldn't do the same? Arwen seems to unattainable and sometimes I get the feeling that, although she was brave and loyal, it just seems easier for Elves to be like that. This is probably just a silly feeling, but that is how I feel!

That I would rather marry Faramir than Aragorn. :P

Jennifer

[Laredith]

Eowyn definately. She did a lot. Arwen's just kinda...there...(btw, I'm new, so how do I get that pic thing and title next to my name?)

[azalea]

The pic (avatar) you can get by going into "user cp" and fiddling around (don't know exactly, haven't done it myself); the title you must earn. ;)

[Elf Girl]

You earn it by getting 50 posts for Enting, 100 for Elven Warrior, and 500 for Elf Lord.

I think in the book, Arwen is not as interesting as Eowyn, because she never really did anything. She sort of disappeared for TTT, and then reappered and we all said "HUH? Who's SHE?"

[Radagast The Brown]

And you earn to 60000 if you are a moderator.
Elf Girl, I agree with you that Eowyn is more interesting but I still rather Arwen because she's more.... more.... elf.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
but I still rather Arwen because she's more.... more....

:rolleyes: Typical male. Judge her on her looks rather than her merits. Ooh, ooh! Lets go with Arwen cos I'd like to ++++ her.... :rolleyes:

[Comic Book Guy]

Just to reply to the above post by Radagast, you don't become a moderator when you hit 60000 posts, we changed the Entmoot's staff's post count to stop spamming.

It's typical now for males to like Elves BeardOfPants?

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by BeadrofPants
Typical male. Judge her on her looks rather than her merits. Ooh, ooh! Lets go with Arwen cos I'd like to ++++ her....:rolleyes:
You did not understand me. I think Liv Taylor is ugly(!). I just rather Arwen. Why? because I hate Eowyn.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

What?!?!?!? You hate Eowyn? Why? (is this, what, the first thread where we have disagreed on something?)

Why don't you like Eowyn? And who says she isn't stunningly beautiful? She is, it says so! Just not elven beauty. She's one of the few instances where I like a human better than an elf.

[Lizra]

It was kind of creepy the way Eowyn took one look at Aragorn and thought he was her "ticket out of here". Arwen did sew the banner, heehee!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

That is a good point, Lizra. I tend not to look beyond how I can identify with her unrequited love problems, rather than looking at the source/reasons for her love of Aragorn. But, I can also see why she was so desperate to get out of there. She was stuck taking care of her aging uncle, who she cared deeply for, but it was not really her kind of thing. The nasty, vile wormtongue had his eyes on her...another thing I can sort of identify with (only barely, thank Eru)...another reason to want to get out of there as fast as she could. I mean, there are flaws in her reasoning, but you have to see where she's coming from, right?

[Lizra]

I suppose you're right Eruviel, It was just embarassing the way she imposed on Aragorn, a complete stranger. Poor thing, did she need some prozac? I love the way she finally fell in love the correct way and started smiling and growing plants, yea!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

heh. prozac. Yeah, it is kinda embarrasing, with Aragorn, you're right. But I also like her in her desperate warrior-mode. :) When she rides out with the Riders of Rohan and slays the Nazgul. And when she grows plants. I think she's a great character.

[Lizra]

Well, you certainly can't knock slaying a Nazgul! Horray for Eowyn!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Aye, hooray for Eowyn!!! I didn't think they gave her enough credit, either. :rolleyes:

[Radagast The Brown]

amm.... I just don't like her qualaties. I don't know why, and don't ask me why. She is the most good chracter that I don't like in LOTR.

[Ërendil]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf


Why don't you like Eowyn? And who says she isn't stunningly beautiful? She is, it says so! Just not elven beauty. She's one of the few instances where I like a human better than an elf.

Same here! I like elves but Eowyn is really great. Hooray for Eowyn!

[Wulažg]

It's just a matter of style. Girls in general are nicer than guys, and elves ae in general nicer than humans, therefore I'll almost always choose elves over humans, especially female ones. It's just that I prefer nice people to mean/hard people. Eowyn has been through a lot and hardened herself to the world so I wouldn't like her. No offense to you Eowyn lovers:rolleyes:

[Radagast The Brown]

I agree with Wulažg. I just like Arwen. No offence but Eowyn is terribly...ahh ...ahh ... I don't know she's just... I don't like Eowyn!!!

[Lizra]

self centered? (with good reasons of course!)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Wulazg, stop generalizing and stereotyping. Please.
Okay, it's nice to hear other people's opinions. I still like Eowyn better, but reading about your opinions is nice too. I don't think we're about to change anyone's opinions here ;)

[Wulažg]

Hey Eruviel... What is the difference(in your mind) between stereotyping and generalization and simply seeing the patterns? People that act alike look alike. It's like people looking like their pets/spouses. People give up things to match more perfectly the personalities of said entities and therefore tend to obtain the same general "feel"/"look" to them. Quantify that and you have a system for reading wha a peson is like by their appearance/unconcious actions. Any character/character type written about by an author to a sufficient degree will afford the same opportunity to assess the character's personality. For instance, if you know what you are doing, you can figure out Hemingway's "Code Hero" or even more interesting the "nice/kind/friendly/beautiful-hearted"(sorry technical term ast least it wasn't in Quenya as usual) if F. Scott Fitzgerald's works. In the same sense one can analyze Arwen and her template, Luthien Tinuviel, and HER template, Tolkien's wife. Thus one can actually get a pretty good idea as to "who" Arwen really is. I'm a VERY logical person and I did not make a blind generalization or stereotype. I'm apparently also quite vociferous on the subject;)

[Wulažg]

Trust me this is mild compared to what my English teacher went through when he asked something stupid. I replied with a 10 page dissertation comparing personality sets between Tolkien and Fitzgerald. He has now banned me from writing essays on LotR. This is NOTHING compared to that. I like/prefer nice people and so will always choose them. This isn't the specifics yet but it should be sufficient to explain my statement earlier.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Whoa! Sorry, I went into rabid-feminist mode there for a minute! :) Sometimes I tend to get really annoyed by the stereotyping of women as an attempt to define "feminine" (okay, I admit it, I have been reading Mary Daly. But it's for a class, and I know she's crazy. Anyway.), because I know that I do not fit that stereotype at all. Okay, I'm not even sure what I'm saying here. I get what you mean, about defining characters, and, true, you can lump a bunch of labels, etc. onto a character as a sort of definition of said character, and I know you can do that for about everyone, lumping a bunch of labels together to apply to someone, and that works sometimes, and I think it's the resulting combination that makes someone an individual. Sort of like genetics. I tend object to people making generalizations about people. Dunno why. Anyway, you are welcome to ignore what I just said; it didn't make any sense. :eek:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

It's cool that you are always ready to defend whatever you say--I admire people who can do that! Thanks for the explanation...And I think most people generally like nice people over not-nice people. Eek! I made a generalization! :rolleyes: :D

[Wulažg]

Define over-nice. It seems to be impossible unless you are refferring to insincere nice people. I just don't get it.:confused: :confused:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Did I say 'over-nice' ? *checks posts* I don't think I did. . .:eek: :confused:

[Wulažg]

oops... I must have skipped the "not" in "over not-nice". Sorry:)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

That's alright, my orcish friend! :D

[Christiana]

Arwen.have u Seen the horse chase sene? anyway, shes less whimsy than Eowyn.:rolleyes:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Christiana, have you read the books? No offense or anything, but really, Eowyn is far from whimsy (maybe a bit self-centered and so on. . .) while Arwen simply sits at home and makes flags. Not that there's anything wrong with making banners and staying at home, but Eowyn at least goes out and does something, which is far from whimsy. And the horse chase scene is purely a PJ invention, having nothing to do with the character JRR Tolkien wrote.

[Christiana]

Shut up.:( I'm unhappy all ready.*sob*

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Sorry, didn't mean to make you sad. . .there, there. I just meant, I thought you might not have read them, so your impressions would be different...it would be PJ's interpretations of the characters, not your own. Didn't want to hurt your feelings. . .

[BeardofPants]

Well, this is the books forum! If you want to expound upon the virtues of Movie Arwen, do it in the movie forum.

[Mirahzi]

Eowyn's a tomboy, which is generally a quality I prefer. Not to mention, she kicks butt on the Witchking (Merry helped ;))
On the other hand... Arwen's a sissy... (I am soooo immature).
I guess being a sissy's alright. After all she's an elf and judging from Legolas, elves are supposed to be sissies. :D

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Are you insulting me, Mirahzi? :p :D (in case you didn't know, I am Legolas. Just chose an odd disguise, is all)

Yeah, Eowyn's a tomboy, which is probably one of the reasons I like her better over Arwen...;) :)

[Mirahzi]

You can bet your socks I'm insulting you :) You and your nancing and prancing!! Disgraceful ;)

Dithpicable.

I suppose Arwen and Aragorn are suited for each other, since opposites attract.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

How dare you insult me? I am one of the manliest elves in ME!!! ;)

[Mirahzi]

Oh dear Eru! We're doomed to nance forever and longer!! Ahh! Seriously though, if you're the manliest Elf in Middle Earth... Good grief. Gaaaaaaaaahhhhh ugh ....

Well, you'd better get back to practicing your nancing, eh? Nance away, good "sir" :D

[Christiana]

HeyLegolas is cool:mad:

[Mirahzi]

Hehe, me thinks me found a fangirl :D
Of course he's cool, but I can't help poking fun. I guess it's just my jealousy of his incredible sexiness.
Btw, you should read the secret diaries (or something like that)
That oughta provide some perspective :D

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Mirahzi
Oh dear Eru! We're doomed to nance forever and longer!! Ahh! Seriously though, if you're the manliest Elf in Middle Earth... Good grief. Gaaaaaaaaahhhhh ugh ....

Well, you'd better get back to practicing your nancing, eh? Nance away, good "sir" :D

You don't even know what you are talking about, you fool! (:D)
I do NOT nance!!! Hey, remember the Nazgul's flying steed? Caradhras? Helm's Deep? The Paths of the Dead? Various other battles? *glossing over the bridge of Khazad-dum*

[Mirahzi]

Hah. On Caradhras, you were the nanciest elf that ever nanced :D
Nancing along on the snow. Something about catching the sun.. Silly Elf!

Helm's Deep?
You got beaten by a stumpy dwarf!! (I think, not sure)
Where's your bowmanship, elf!! Knock about 10 arrows and blast away!! Anyway, I admit you didnt nance there, but I bet you were thinkin about it! :D

Legolas Greenleaf
of the Dark wood
Nancing and Prancing
whenever he could.


Hah, Instant Rhymer 2000 :)

[Tar-Elendil]

Éowyn! idhave a better shot at her..;)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Mirahzi
Hehe, me thinks me found a fangirl :D
Of course he's cool, but I can't help poking fun. I guess it's just my jealousy of his incredible sexiness.
Btw, you should read the secret diaries (or something like that)
That oughta provide some perspective :D

Ah, he's jealous. That explains it. :D
(and I am one sexy elf!)


fangirl? :eek: *runs and hides in Greenwood the Great*

[Christiana]

Go Eruviel Greenleaf
(by the way, no offense, but are u a girl?:confused:

[Mirahzi]

Yes, yes run you sissified elf!! Begone if you be not manly! (Taking that frm your quote to spite you :D)

Yes yes, you are one damn sexy elf. But Galadriel is too.. And she's more manly than you are :D

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Christiana
Go Eruviel Greenleaf
(by the way, no offense, but are u a girl?:confused:

Let me explain...I am a reincarnation of Legolas, so yes, I am a girl, but I am still Legolas, and a very sexy, manly elf. Manlier than Galadriel, for sure!!! Though I guess she does beat me for sexiness :rolleyes: :)

*stops running, and comes back to face the most fearful thing in the world: a fangirl.*

[Christiana]

My crush is on Aragorn*blushes*

[Mirahzi]

Yep yep. Fangirls are worse than orcs and trolls and mutated hobbit-like creatures with a taste for Frodo.

I think you're just trying to vainly reassure yourself of your manliness to cover up your true feelings.

Not only does Galadriel beat you in sexiness.. but she beats you in:
Intelligence
Power (by faaaaaaaaaaaaaar)
Age
Character Depth
Cool knick-knacks (Elven-ring, Mirror)
And she's got a real boyfriend, you've just got a stumpy dwarf ;)
Although he's "conviently sized" (Diaries)

[Christiana]

Im going 2 smash u w/ 1extremely large treebranch

[BeardofPants]

Geez, and you wonder why they're threatening to close the GM thread. :rolleyes:

What a bunch of little spammers we all are.

[Mirahzi]

Ok, that might hurt.. But I am a Wizard afterall (Tidbits the Pink), so smash away o fangirl :D
If you kill me, I'll just come back for "unfinished bidness" and blast you away with my pink & purple hearts.
Fear me.
Fear me alot.


:D :D :D :D

[Christiana]

Im going 2 smash u 2:D

[Mirahzi]

Right on! Wait.. you do mean bop, not me, right? :D

[Christiana]

So what, Tiddie Bitties. My dog has breath so bad, you'll b in da western halls of Mandos after 1 wiff.:p :D :D

[Mirahzi]

My dog has equally bad breath, so I've gained an immunity to the stench... so hah! Mandos my butt! :)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I hear a fell voice on the air: an mod. telling us we're spamming and the thread will close. So let's keep on topic as BoP nicely reminded us.

Um. . .Eowyn rocks!!! :D

ps. Mirhazi, I admit Galadriel is superior in all those things, but not by too much--and I can shoot better 'n her!!! :) And I believe you are jealous of my sexy elf-ish-ness, and therefore feel you must insult my masculinity. ;)

[Christiana]

Does your dog eat cat poo,firestarters, & rotten bananas?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

stop spamming! we don't want to be closed down!


-says the hopeless spammer

[Mirahzi]

Yeah!! Go Eowyn! Kick some Nazgul hiney!

I thought I admitted I was jealous( who wouldnt be?).
She is marginally better in all those categories except the significant other category...
Celeborn is sooooo much cooler than Stumpy.. err Gimli. ;)
Oh and... Insult your masculanity?
Not much to insult, eh? :D

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Celeborn may appear to be cooler, but Gimli is an axe-swinging Dwarf for Aule's sake!!! :D

And as for insulting my masculinity, I speak as Legolas. :D

[Christiana]

Is this a sexiest contest, or an Arwen/Eowyn poll?:confused:

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by Mirahzi
Oh and... Insult your masculanity?
Not much to insult, eh? :D

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
And as for insulting my masculinity, I speak as Legolas.


As I was saying... :D :D :D

Gimli's too impatient... that scene in the movie where he tries to slice the Ring in half really reflects his ingenious. Boy that was hilarious :D

Dwarf Farf.. I've seen more ferocious smurfs :D

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by Christiana
Is this a sexiest contest, or an Arwen/Eowyn poll?:confused:

Well, we could mesh the two topics....

Haven't seen Eowyn in the movie, so I can't compare her to Liv Tyler/Arwen...
But, from her type of character, I'd say Arwen was sexier cause elves are just so darn sexy (i.e. Galadriel and Legolas). Mortals just can't compare.

[BeardofPants]

Where's Emplynx and his silly padlock when you need him? :rolleyes:

I suggest you stop spamming if you want this thread to stay open.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Mirahzi


As I was saying... :D :D :D

Gimli's too impatient... that scene in the movie where he tries to slice the Ring in half really reflects his ingenious. Boy that was hilarious :D

Dwarf Farf.. I've seen more ferocious smurfs :D

Well, I never said Gimli was brilliant or anything. . .but he's a ferocious, axe-swinging dwarf who at times can be well-spoken and eloquent. :D

As you were saying. . .I find not point in this argument with a jealous kid who doesn't understand how manly I am (speaking as my former self again). :D

Oh, and from seeing the trailer, I say Eowyn beats even the elf for sexiness ;)

[Christiana]

I agree w/ bop

[Christiana]

Eruviel,STOP SPAMMING!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mirahzi]

Hehe, Christiana, you traitor! ;)

Anyway, I can't wait until I see the movie or atleast see the trailor.

Stupid Faramir (Character, not mooter).. he got the warrior AND the beauty. :mad: :D

Btw. we're still talkin about Eowyn/Arwen so we're not spamming... HAH!

[Christiana]

Go to LOTRs official website.

[Mirahzi]

Right, thanks.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Christiana
Eruviel,STOP SPAMMING!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

How, in the name of Eru, was I spamming? I do believe it is you who are spamming now.

Yep, lucky Faramir. . .I think Legolas and Eowyn would have made a good couple :D (ignoring the fact that she is human. . .:rolleyes: )

[Mirahzi]

Aye, but that'd be another cross-gender marriage.. more spoiling of the elven blood!!

Perhaps Arwen and Legolas should married.. then they could nance throughout the halls of Mirkwood and Rivendell together...

That would leave Aragorn and Eowyn.. and Faramir...

Aragorn and Faramir could fight to the death!!

Of course Aragorn would win, because of his anger (and thus passion) at his rejection by Arwen. His anger would be furthermore increased, because he was beaten by a nancing, prancing sissy-elf. :D

[Christiana]

Listen, im tired, my bro's nagging me, and my dog ran away yesterday.




p.s.Call me Christa

[Mirahzi]

See, Christa, your dog wouldn't be able to kill Tidbits the Pink w/ his breath anyways..

That may seem insensitive.. and if it is, sorry.
But, I believe that the best way to overcome sorrow is to laugh.. or get really really drunk. The former comes w/o the hangover :D

[Christiana]

I FOUND MY DOG!!!!!!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Mirahzi

Perhaps Arwen and Legolas should married.. then they could nance throughout the halls of Mirkwood and Rivendell together...

That would leave Aragorn and Eowyn.. and Faramir...

Aragorn and Faramir could fight to the death!!

Of course Aragorn would win, because of his anger (and thus passion) at his rejection by Arwen. His anger would be furthermore increased, because he was beaten by a nancing, prancing sissy-elf. :D

No, Legolas definitely needs to marry Eowyn. THey'd get along great :D :D

[Mirahzi]

That's great Christa! Now go lose him again, so that you can be elated once more when you find him :D

Sorry Eruviel, but I don't think Eowyn's much of a nancer :D

Curse this 90 second to the bloody bowels of hell!!

[Christiana]

how do i get an avatar:confused:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Seeing as Legolas isn't much of a nancer either, they'd get along fine. So there.

The 90 second rule is to cut down on spamming. . .:rolleyes: :mad:

[Christiana]

Whats the 90 sec. rule?

[Mirahzi]

You have to wait 90 seconds in between posts...
Really annoying when you're thread-hopping.
I guess it's supposed to prevent spams (as in quickly repeated empty posts), but 30 seconds would be enough


Ack, just got hit with it!!

Btw, what kind of dog do you have?

[Christiana]

HOW DO I GET AN AVATAR???!!!!

[Christiana]

i HAVE A SIBERIAN hUSKY, & A LAB-BEAGLE MIx(sorry about the CL

[Mirahzi]

Wow, a husky.. Here in Seattle, we've got the UW Huskies :)

Anyway, to get an avatar, you first need to find an image on the internet or on your computer. Then, you need to resize it in photoshop/paint/anything else to 60pixels x 60pixels. Then go to user cp and click on edit options. At the bottom there should be a section on avatars and its pretty self-explanatory from there.

[Christiana]

Hey EG, are we& M the only ones on the moot right now?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Christiana
HOW DO I GET AN AVATAR???!!!!

Talk about spamming. . .*shakes head* There is an FAQ, you know. Do calm down.

And no, we aren't the only ones here. THere's others.

[afro-elf]

People that act alike look alike. It's like people looking like their pets/spouses. People give up things to match more perfectly the personalities of said entities and therefore tend to obtain the same general "feel"/"look" to them.


It is not necessary OR suffucient that people who look alike will act alike. I myself am a counter example

to EG and MZ there is in Tolkiens writings maybe the in UFT that said Galadriel was an athlete in her young and was equal to ( maybe greater in some wasy than feanor) the parenthesis because i dont recall for sure

she is a calaquendi of great power and was tutored ( i believe) by melian

basically she would whoop legolas's A$$


but i still think he is cool

[Christiana]

hey,hi again:)

[Wulažg]

I'm not necessarily saying that people who look alike will act alike, I'm just saying that people with certain traits will gain certain physical characteristics, or rather at least their actions (subconcious) will be revealed in a general "feel" of a person which at least in my case is reflected on their appearance. It's not as bad as my friend who thinks in colors;)

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by afro-elf

basically she would whoop legolas's A$$


Obviously you've got a well supported opinion there, which I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with :D

[afro-elf]

I'm just saying that people with certain traits will gain certain physical characteristics,

Can you give some concrete examples?

what you said of is shy people will gain certain physical characteristics

I can subsistute shy with gay, lazy, ambitious, stupid, nice etc.

do all this people has a look that you can readily indentify?


I wanna add that because this is written there is no antagonism

just asking for clarity

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by afro-elf


she is a calaquendi of great power and was tutored ( i believe) by melian

basically she would whoop legolas's A$$


but i still think he is cool

Okay, I'll agree to that. Especially the last part :)

[Willow Oran]

I think both Eowyn and Arwen are really cool, but I'm going to say I like Arwen better at the moment because she is a good character and she really did love Aragorn and she must of put a ton of work into the banner and I think that if left to her own devices she probably would have followed Aragorn into battle. However you have to take into account the little fact that Elrond, her father, was not exactly happy about the prospect of his daughter marrieing a mortal. Now imagine how he would feel about Arwen going off into battle, fighting Nazgul and orcs and who knows what else for that same mortal. Knowing Elrond He's be likely to follow Thingols example and lock her up somewhere. I personally I think that waiting for news of someone you love who has gone off into battle takes more strength of character than following someone you have a crush on into battle because you have a death wish does. So That's why I like Arwen better. No offense to those of you who chose Eowyn, I still think she's really cool too.

[Wulažg]

It will be hard to clarify this. I do have concrete examples but they are only people at my school. Poeple who have the same thoughts in their subconcious mind have the same subconcious actions. These can be very subtle and most people even I can't read. I have specialized being able to ascertain what certain "physical" characteristics(a general "look"; or "feel" caused by their subconcious actions) do to a person's personalities, or rather how they reflect on their personalities. I'm really good but just mainly with .1% of the population, actually much less than that. As one gets further from the area in which one has specialized in, one gets more and more generalized. It is merely a quantified and concious version of people getting to know someone very well. If you find a similar person you will be able to tell what they arthnking too, since you know their basic personality as well. The hard part is figuring out how they are similar. This is usually accomplished by a vague feeling of recognition but if your sense of intuition is really good you can finetune that sense.

See, I'm REALLY good at defending myself. I hope I am, since I wrote a LOT about it(150 pages, condensed into about 10 pages for my English teacher who I think didn't bother to read it:mad: :mad: :mad: )

[afro-elf]

Sorry kid but you are talking from subjective perpectives

what kinda of at least SEMI- empiracal data can you put forrth

[Christiana]

I agree w/ WO

[Wulažg]

I have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it;) . I know that sounds pretty bad but it is hard enough trying to show it to someone when I can point out examples, but it's almost impossible to explain like this. Plus I don't have my 150 page dissertation and my English teacher still has my 10-page essay which I never typed up since it used a lot of elvish i it and I didn't have a Tengwar font at the time. Sorry:(

[afro-elf]

In that case i don't think you'll mind if i stay doubtful


actually i don't think i'd like either one. they are two VERY high maintence women.

and they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME


if they were the same personally but low maintence i'd be torn

eowyn would be cool cause she'd be up for adventure however she is bit of an ice maiden and i don't think a sensitive male would be suffered by her. ( maybe she softened up in the houses of the healing)


arwen is stunning but a house body but also willing to sacrifice all for love ( immortality for mortality) one could find comfort in her arms

at this point in my life i would choose low maintaince arwen ( i still like the character of eowyn better

[Christiana]

Whooo......
Anti feminest, arnt U?:mad: :p

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by afro-elf
they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME


Aragorn is definetely the most powerful, but Faramir has got some competition for 2nd most noble/powerful.. Eomer's easily got a shot at 2nd..

Also... Eowyn an ice maiden? She was pretty hot for Aragorn.. And, she warmed up to Faramir..

I think I've wandered astray..

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Christiana
Whooo......
Anti feminest, arnt U?:mad: :p

I don't think that's quite what he meant.

[Radagast The Brown]

Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer.

[afro-elf]

Anti feminest, arnt U?

Me? If so please explain your reasoning


Aragorn is definetely the most powerful, but Faramir has got some competition for 2nd most noble/powerful.. Eomer's easily got a shot at 2nd..


Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer.


AS FOR FARAMIR

1) eowyn notes that NO man in her country could match him in arms
2) eomer is a middle man. The blood of Numenor is strong within Faramir giving him greater powers of mind and flesh
3) third powerful is not relagated soley to physical might. He is the steward of the reunited kingdom. aragorn's #1 man.

You also for get that the blood of elves and numenor flow through the lords of dol amorth
faramirs mom was imrahil's sister so faramir has CLOSER elven blood in his veins than even Aragorn. ( imrazor the numenorean and mithrellas)

i like eomer however he is not faramir's match in arms, mind, or nobility

eowyn says so herself



Also... Eowyn an ice maiden? She was pretty hot for Aragorn.. And, she warmed up to Faramir..


it is not a necessary or sufficent link that because she likes aragorn that she i not an ice maiden. I don't think someone would would describe her as a person who is full of warmth, tenderness and compassion. who gushes over sappy stuff.

the same with faramir being attracted to someone does not mean that they still not reserved emotionally.

as a bad example margarent thatcher was married but i don't think you call her anything but an ice maiden

[Wulažg]

Now who's on the defenssive?

Anyway, you are correct in that Faramir could probably whoop Eomer.

Now we need another thing to argue about...
Eowyn being an ice maiden?
of course I don't really care since I am an Arwen fan...

[afro-elf]

wula g

I am still quite unconvinced about your ideas

have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it . I know that sounds pretty bad


yes it does sound pretty bad :p



Now we need another thing to argue about Eowyn being an ice maiden


others have stated their points so what are yours

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I would agree that Eowyn would be an ice maiden; and partly because her main reason for liking Aragorn is an escape. . .not that I blame her!

[Wulažg]

Eowyn has hardened herself to teh world and so I guess that is your definition of an "ice maiden"

How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around...

[afro-elf]

How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around...


you can describe in detail

even though it will only be hearsay it will at least clarify

[Snowdog]

There is lots of deep discussion here on the two ladies of the Lord of the Rings. Being that this is the Books Forum, I would give Eowyn the credit for being determined and of having a deathwish of sorts. her infatuation with Aragorn at the Paths of the Dead was that she saw a way out of her life at home. For Theoden gave rule to her of the people left at home, and she shunned the responsibility to go off and fight. She may have had an infatuation for Aragorn, but it was Faramir who touched her heart in the end.

Is there really any discussion from the books the actual story of Arwen? If you include the Appendix telling of their betrothal, then yes, and at the time of Aragorn's meeting of Eowyn, he was in his honor already a married man. Who knows, being a mortal man, seeing Eowyn itn the sun he may have had a passing thought of 'what if...'

[Wulažg]

there waqs some implicit characterization of Arwen and of the relationship between her and Aragorn at Lothlorien, where Aragorn has a flashback and says "Arwen vanimelda, Namarie" and it actually says his feelings too.

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Mmmm...Eowyn, definitley. So many good arguments have already been made, all of them I can empathize with...
1) Eowyn didn't just sit around, waiting for a messenger to come back and say, "Oh, by the way, your uncle's been killed, he says bye." "Good boy, here's a quarter, well, I'm off to start digging his funeral mound."
2) Her story is beautiful, and easier to empathize with that the 'We're-holier-than-thou-we-were-born-first-you-are-all-scum-the-Valar-like-us-best-we-live-forever-our-ears-are-cooler-than-yours-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha' Elves: Her parents die, then her uncle is weakned by someone who lusts after her, and then, spurned on by unrequited love and the thought of her object of affection dying pointlessly, she takes it upon herself to abandon all rationality and die gloriously (if I remember correctly, one of her greatest fears was that she would fade to nothingness, which, sadly enough, she did in the end anyway).
Though I must say, I do beleive she and Faramir could have taken it a bit more slowly. And I HATED how she gave up her sword to become a healer...and Tolkien could at LEAST have graced us with the date of her death.
Arwen...we never hear anything about her life, or are given any really good reason to empathize with her 'situation'. How can I empathize with someone I know nothing about? Ok, granted the part where she goes off to Lorien to die alone is beautifully sad, but that's about all.
As for Eowyn being an 'ice maiden'? Aragorn himself talks about her being a lily touched by frost. So, I suppose she did have to harden herself to the world around her, and the world didn't exactly help her: as Gandalf said, to her, her place in the world seemed to be growing less and less each day. I know I would become pretty frosty, to hide my depression that I had no purpose, if nothing else.

[Olegson]

That's OK .
Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings.
You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul)



:rolleyes:

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by Olegson
That's OK .
Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings.
You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul)

How is she weak of soul?

[BeardofPants]

I'm thinking her death wish here for some reason. :rolleyes:

[Mirahzi]

Many of the greatest warriors were a bit crazed and/or suicidal(i.e. Turin Turambar) .. but they weren't considered weak of soul..

[Christiana]

Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me.:eek:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Christiana
Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me.:eek:

That's the annoying part.

I wouldn't say she is weak of soul for being suicidal...see Mirahzi's post.

[Mirahzi]

On a similar note.. it would've been more cowardly if she [Eowyn] had stayed at home to await death.. rather than riding forth to meet it. Theoden also had a similar mindset.. and he was commended for his bravery.

[Christiana]

EG,whats w/ the new avatar?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

It's pretty cute, no?
Nobody seemed to like the other one, and Earniel made this for me. Far better than Orlando Bloom, it is. But really, I'd prefer not to go off topic like this...if you have questions about changes to my avatar, my sig, or anything else, please PM me from now on, kay?

[Olegson]

Hello! I really think Eowyn's weak-souled.
The first time she falls in love (which I doubt) with a handsome, noble man - and she's rady to comite ( sorry for this word) a suicide just because he loves another wonan. But what's the point I wonder.
Moreover, I'd say, Faramir's much more attractive Fellow, isn't he???

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Olegson
Hello! I really think Eowyn's weak-souled.
The first time she falls in love (which I doubt) with a handsome, noble man - and she's rady to comite ( sorry for this word) a suicide just because he loves another wonan. But what's the point I wonder.
Moreover, I'd say, Faramir's much more attractive Fellow, isn't he???

I would have to disagree with this. First, when she 'falls in love' with Aragorn, I believe she does not so much love him as see him as a way out of her current situation. Where she is at that point, this slimey guy is trying to get her, she's stuck inside with her ageing uncle, whom she loves, but she obviously does not wish to stay there taking care of him constantly--what kind of life is that? So when Aragorn comes along, she sees him as a way out, not to mention pretty handsome to, eh? And wouldn't you want to be queen of Gondor? But besides that. . .her readiness to die is indeed suicidal, but it seems that just becuase she is a woman she is looked down on for this, unlike the many other characters in Tolkien's writing that go into battle ready to die. It seemed to her at that point that there was nothing left, and indeed this was almost true. Her 'love' had rejected her, and it definitely looked like the end of the world at that point. If your world is going to be taken over by an evil Dark Lord, and someone is telling you to sit at home and wait it out, would you listen to them? I certainly wouldn't! And also, it turned out to be best that she did go into battle, ready to die, because how would the Witch King have been killed then, eh?

And as for Faramir being better looking, well...I won't get into that, eh? :D

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Well, if you think Eowyn's weak-souled simply because she went off to die, I'd have to disagree. I think it would have been weak of her to HARBOR this wish and do nothing about it, besides let it stew and then still be stuck with it, and whatever petty task Eomer came back with for her to perform after the war. That wuld have shown that she didn't have the gall to take her life into her own hands; instead letting other people run her life for her. I admire anyone who takes their fate into their own hands, man or woman. And that is why I admire Eowyn.

I fully agree with Eruviel Greenleaf's post. Eowyn saw Aragorn more as a way out of her current situation (and he confirms this in the Houses of Healing) than as a love interest. I think of their *cough* 'relationship', as admiration (by Eowyn for Aragorn) rather than love, a chance to do greater things and be remembered for it on Eowyn's part. And her wish for death wasn't really that he loved another (after all, he only infers to her of Arwen), but that he was going to perform (what she thought was) a fatal task and waste his life. I think this drove her over the edge, rather than Arwen.

But with her hastiness in marriage to Faramir, there I'm leaning towards weak-souled. It seems like they were both despairing and thinking something along the lines of 'Well, we're just going to die anyway pretty soon, so why not?' I do not beleive that meaningful love can be acheived in a week (give or take).

And as for her death wish being weak-souled...I think it was more along the lines of desperation rather than suicide (although I won't deny that she obviously wanted to die). She took her fate into her own hands instead of waiting for a Higher Power to throw her a bone. That should be commended and recognized in both men and women. And so, I shall also honor:
MERRY!
For not just sticking around a stupid stronghold, simply because he was told to do so. He also plucked up his courage and determination, and found a way to acheive what he wanted.

But I digress...

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Stalker in the Starlight

But with her hastiness in marriage to Faramir, there I'm leaning towards weak-souled. It seems like they were both despairing and thinking something along the lines of 'Well, we're just going to die anyway pretty soon, so why not?' I do not beleive that meaningful love can be acheived in a week (give or take).


That I agree to also. Of course, their wedding did not take place for a while after, but still, that is definitely not enough time there. I would even venture to say that she did not truly love Faramir, either...*ducks rotten begetables being thrown at her* and perhaps this was another form of 'escape' that she saw in a man. But anyway. . .

[Olegson]

Well, you're right, but there are a lot of ways to solve such problems. I may be wrong, but if I were Eowyn I'd at first murder Grima. OK/ I really think it would help a lot. After that I'd take a steed and move to Minas Tirith. But before that I'd had made a track to some river so that others'd think I'd comeeted a suicide at last.
Sorry for the rudeness, but Eowyn needs 1 thing to be a perfect woman…………..- Brains!
As for Faramir – it's very simple – he's only 38 & Aragorn is 81…. Would you like a mummy to merry you? I'm sure not. & besides . Faramir is more fine person to deal with..

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Well, you're right, but there are a lot of ways to solve such problems. I may be wrong, but if I were Eowyn I'd at first murder Grima. OK/ I really think it would help a lot. After that I'd take a steed and move to Minas Tirith. But before that I'd had made a track to some river so that others'd think I'd comeeted a suicide at last.

Umm...a few tiny little problems with that plan:
1) At the time when Grima was at the height of his malice, he was also under Theoden's protection. If Eowyn had killed him, Theoden most likely would have locked her up or worse. Yes, I'm sure it really would have helped everyone a lot to have Grima dead, but let's not forget what Theoden, under Grima's influence, did to Eomer when Eomer threatened Grima with death in the halls of Edoras: Theoden had Eomer locked up. And let's face it: that's just not how the story goes, and its not in Eowyn's character to be a senseless killer (And let's not start with the Witch-king, b/c then we'll all have to get into a long boring discussion of whether or not the Nazgul were really alive...). She's not a heartless witch. She's just stern and resolute.
2) Eowyn wasn't after death alone. She wanted REKNOWN more than anything else. She wanted to be known and remembered POSITIVLEY for her actions, which is why she rode to battle, rather than right-out killing herself (Also, maybe she really didn't have the courage to take her own life...but we'll never know for sure).

Sorry for the rudeness, but Eowyn needs 1 thing to be a perfect woman…………..- Brains!

There are no perfect women, just like there are no perfect men. Eowyn was not perfect, and that's what makes her character great. If she was perfect, she'd be a Mary-Sue, and trust me: NO ONE wants that. It's Eowyn's imperfections (like her falling for Aragorn) that make her so much more memorable.

As for Faramir – it's very simple – he's only 38 & Aragorn is 81…. Would you like a mummy to merry you? I'm sure not. & besides . Faramir is more fine person to deal with..

Faramir offered Eowyn more than Aragorn could, besides being younger: he understood her on a higher level: he realized the feelings of bitterness she was harboring, what with not acheiving her goals and her future as another shadow in the court of her brother. He listened to her, he understood her better, he didn't give her the sympathy and pity that she didn't want. And he says so, in 'The Steward and the King':

...but when he gave you only understanding and pity, then you desired to have nothing, unless a brave death in battle....

Aragorn gave her only pity and understanding (besides being already taken). These things she did not want, above all else, for she was proud and hated pity (if we all remember our global history correctly, we know that the Rohirrim are parellel to the barbarian tribes of Europe in the Middle-Ages, who were also proud. Tolkien no doubt played on that). Faramir, while being able to offer her less in power, offered her more in stature. He felt empathy for her, but was able to analyze her situation and come to a conclusion as to her feelings. And, while I still hold with my previous claim that meaningful love cannot be acheived in a week, I beleive that its foundations can be laid out for the future. My only regret for Faramir and Eowyn is that Tolkien never elaborated upon their life in Ithilien after the War.
Drat.