They had better not cut the Scouring of the Shire!

[IronParrot]

Man, they must be tempted to do that. I mean... it's a part of the story that's after the Quest of the Ring. Most first-time readers that aren't big fans of LOTR seem to find this part not a real part of the core story, and too anticlimatic. It's like how in the film version of Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, they cut out everything after the Wizard's departure... except I've gotten used to that when watching the film.

But they had better not cut the Battle of Bywater, and the passing of Saruman, etc. etc. etc.!

[anduin]

My word! I never thought of that......I hope you are wrong. PJ better give the Hobbit's their due!

[IronParrot]

This is a far-fetched fear.

But my, what a fear!

[juntel]

Hadn't thought of that, but I disagree with you: it is NOT far-fetched.
They might even have Saruman killed in the Ent attack...
Or worse, in a "Jedi" duel with Gandalf: battle of the Istari!
What a Hollywood moment, isn't it!?
And as a last scene, Gandalf will marry Galadriel... (she gave him the wedding ring, didn't she?)

[anduin]

Blasphemy!!!

Juntel, that is grounds for banning!



Hehe.......

[juntel]

Hehe...

Well, when I saw the movie Dune, in which Paul was making rain fall on Arakis at the end (!!!), I then learned how corrupted even a great tale can become when put on screen...

So... how do we contact PJ to let him know of our concerns...?


(BTW, one of the first post I made here (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fbenjaminstolkienboardlordoftheringsbooks.showMess age?topicID=35.topic) at Entmoot was about my favorite scene in LofR, and I said it was when Saruman was killed in "The Scouring of the Shire".... so I do want THAT scene to remain!)

[Blazez]

The movie stars, that is. According to various sorces, our man Lee is done filming, and he didn't film for very long. That would indicate that only the Orthanc films were filmed.

Myself, I think not. Like Sean Bean, I believe he'll return to do more scenes such as the parlé and, I hope the shire bits (or at least part of it). And, the fact that the Green Dragon (or whatever it was) set building was burned indicates to me that we will see the Scouring.

Then again, it is very secondary to the story, and is sort of a second cycle of conflict and climax, which can become very confusing to the casual viewer.

[etherealunicorn]

Eek! Blasphemers!
Absolutely the Scouring needs to stay in. It needs to be shown, if for no other reason, because the nonfans need to see that the hobbits as a race are capable of it, and that the courage of the Fellowship hobbits is not just a fluke, so to speak. Also, that is where Sauruman finally gets his comeuppance and he deserves every moment of his punishment for being such a bloated polyp in the colon of ME( no offense intended). I hope PJ doesn't drag Gandalf away from his vacation with Bombadil for some lame ol' Jedi duel sort of thing. Jeez, PJ might, too, now that I think about it, since all the evidence seems to indicate that Tom will be a no-show in this movie.
This might seem like an inappropriate place to mention this, but the thought just occurs to me: do you think they cut Bombadil for fear that some nonfan would think he was doing some heavy drugs back there in the woods or something? I ask because I remember all the fuss made about Jar-Jar being such a poor role model (I still can't get over that-ROTFLMAO). I mean, I can't speak for the moviegoers of other countries, but here in the US they seem to think that every last man, woman and defenseless child will be corrupted by the material seen in some movies. I am sure you all know the sort of outcry so often heard by those who seem more interested in controlling the lives of others than in permitting free will and a little common sense.

[bmilder]

I was just thinking of that this morning! (Great minds think alike :p ) I'm re-reading LotR, and I had just gotten to the part where the Ring is cast into Mount Doom. Then I stopped reading to come online. Of course I've read it many other times, but it almost seemed to me that the story was over, but I knew there were nearly 100 more pages left. I hope PJ doesn't stop the movie there. Nonfans might groan "There's more?" when the movie doesn't end at Mount Doom, but that scene is essential to the story. As mentioned, it shows that the Hobbits are quite capable of acting on their own, and that evil can come even to the Shire.

Would they be tempted to cut the Grey Havens too? That would be a more definite ending, showing a ship with the Ringbearers, Gandalf, and the Elves go across the ocean, if they don't stop at Mount Doom.

[etherealunicorn]

the grey havens would be a nice end point, even though the books allow Sam to return to Bag End before closing. The image of a small ship sailing into the sunset(with accompanying musical score), cutting back to the faces of those left behind in ME, would close the movie quite nicely. I guess great minds really DO think alike :)

[IronParrot]

Well... so much time passes between Bywater and the Grey Havens... it's a long, long transition described in only a few words, like between the first two chapters in Book I.

Now... after a third reading of LOTR I finally realized the full scope of the importance of the scouring to the story. Think about it. The first time around, I didn't realize the significance of Elrond wanting to send a messenger back to the Shire... (Merry or Pippin I don't remember) Then there's Sam seeing the Party Tree destroyed through the Mirror of Galadriel... and of course, the presence of a pipeweed import at Isengard. In other words, if people pick up those details, they would KNOW that the story doesn't end at Mount Doom.

[etherealunicorn]

Right you are. Plus, aren't there several incidences of brief visions on Frodo's part, which could be viewed as referring to the Havens and such?

[bmilder]

Yeah, but if they cut out the Scouring, they'd probably cut out all the clues too ;) . For the sake of drama, do you think that Sam should be on the ship with Frodo? I know he goes later, but that's not a part of the actual story and is buried in the Appendices somewhere, along with the fact that Legolas and Gimli also go. Hmm... your last post has given me ideas about new topics... :)

[IronParrot]

Such as how much of the appendices are included?

[bmilder]

No, but I'll do that one now ;)

[etherealunicorn]

Actually, for the sake of the good ol' Hollywood-style drama that we've come to know and love, I think that Sam should stay behind when Frodo leaves. I mean, can't you just see it now? The tearful farewell as Sam begs his master not to leave, etc.

[IronParrot]

I have personally always thought that "Well, I'm back" was the perfect last line of dialogue...

[etherealunicorn]

In written form I agree with you wholeheartedly, IP. Great ending. I just meant my suggestion for the movie, if one wanted to pack a real emotional wallop. It would be more in keeping with all of this business of punching up the emotional content for the masses(as if it needed any help!) ;) :) ;) :) ;0:)

[bmilder]

Yeah, for a book it's good, but no director would end his movie that way ;)

[Darth Tater]

I'm almost certain we won't see the scouring of the Shire and I doubt we'll see the departure to the grey havens. Excuse me while I go into the corner and cry.

[bmilder]

Well where would they end it? Aragorn's coronation, like the big celebration at the end of Star Wars movies?

[IronParrot]

That's the most likely spot, yes.

[bmilder]

Well speaking of the coronation, I think they should merge it with the wedding to Arwen so there aren't two big celebrations ;)

[andustar]

could make sense. THEY HAD BETTER NOT cut out the last few chapters!!!

[etherealunicorn]

I agree, bmilder. Actually, it probably wouldn't even hurt if the celebration at the Field of Cormallen were moved back to Gondor and merged with the coronation and the wedding. As I recall, there is nothing about the scene that makes it critical to be a field celebration.
I really think that it will hurt the movie if the Scouring is cut out, though. It ties up the remaining loose ends of the story and sets the stage for the finale.

[Eruve]

I saw a rumour today, which, if it turns out to be true, would indicate that The Scouring of the Shire is out. I saw on a mailing list that apparently Arwen kills Grima. Now, Arwen is already Queen and living in Minas Tirith by the time Grima dies in the book. Nowhere near the Shire to be around to finish Wormtongue off. I hope it's just a rumour...

[etherealunicorn]

Amen to that Eruve! Jeez, if there will be that much alteration in the final cut of the movies, I can hear the howls of the outraged fans now. In fact, I will probably be one of them. I hope that one does turn out to be rumor. Otherwise, it is just stupid!

[Darth Tater]

That's the wrost rumor I've hear yet!!! It's a bad Arwen rumor and a bad Scouring fo the Shire rumor all mixed into one!!!

[Fat middle]

ditto! :D

[IronParrot]

Ugh. I don't want to think about that.

[IronParrot]

Since Tater brought this up again in the other thread about what we all want to see the most... I thought I might bring this back up to the top.

Things appear to be looking better... somewhere there were some pictures from the Shire sets, and the captions mentioned something about it appearing in both the first and third movies. Don't remember where I saw this though. We should probably still ask PJ through the official site for confirmation though... I'd really like to lay this to rest in a comfortable manner.

[Fat middle]

cross fingers ;)

[IronParrot]

Oh no.

That wheel pic is bad, bad news.

[Film Hobbit]

What Wheel pic?

[IronParrot]

This wheel pic.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/common/imageViewer/0,1050,6150,FF.jpg

[Film Hobbit]

Yeah, guess I should have read the other thread first! hehe. Thanks.

[IronParrot]

Hey, I was thinking about this whole issue again the other day... I was wondering if anyone had any new information pertaining to it? I haven't really been following the reports.

[Film Hobbit]

You talking about the wizard and the wheel or the scouring of the shire?

[Perisil]

Heres a link to some of the rumours that are going around it contains all the changes that will be made in the movie and i believe it talks about the scouring of the shire and some stuff on the deaths of grima and sauruman somewhere in there, but a brief warning it contains "MASSIVE SPOILERS" so EVEN if they are mostly rumours if you do dont your couage man go no further for dissapointment awaits with big sharp nasty pointy teeth!

Changes in the Movie (http://www2.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=51)

[IronParrot]

Ah, cripes, they are cutting it!

Oh well. Thanks for pointing me out to that page - I'd rather be disappointed now than later, because by then I'll be used to the idea.

[Darth Tater]

That page is not totally accurate. Chances are we will see at least some of the scouring

[IronParrot]

Yeah, but they DID at least form a workable hypothesis from the evidence available...

There's nothing to disprove that idea.

Oh well, at least I'm sure PJ will keep the departure to the Grey Havens intact, since he's said in interviews that it's his favorite segment of the novel...

[Film Hobbit]

If they don't keep the scouring, the departure from Grey Havens will be ruined. If you leave out the scouring, to my mind you should end the film with Aragorn's wedding. Anything else will be totally disjointed and anti-climactic...

And since I doubt PJ would do this, I'm betting we'll see something of the scouring.

[Samwise of the shire]

TAKE A BREAK!!!!!!You cant expect PJ to follow every single bleepin detail,it will be a pity if he cut the Scouring Of The Shire and The Grey Havens,but I bet that Frodo and Gandalf will somhow be on there way you know why? I saw a picture of Sam coming home to Bag End and greeting Elanor so that means that he must've gone somewhere.Did anyone notice this was the FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING not the Return Of The King he was talking about?So I guess that puts a little time between the next idiotic finicky post about LOTR(but I really think it'd be cool having Frodo saying that thing at the beggining and I think that the other junk that guy put in there-like Frodo reading the book and all three hobbits being caught by Gandalf-was just idiotic detail orentated syndrome;) )dont worry about it peoples
Sam

[Inoldonil]

Film Hobbit (if that is specifically who you were talking to) did not suppose they were cutting out the Grey Havens, but stated he thought cutting out the Scouring would ruin the Grey Havens scenes. But regardless of what anyone said, try to be nice :) If you by chance know more about 'the movies' than someone else on a point, point out where you saw it, in a polite way if you please, help them. I think it goes over much better.

[Darth Tater]

Oh! It appears us admins are totally unnecesary! The Huorns are running everything fine! Maybe us old ents should grow roots somewhere ;)

[IronParrot]

Yes. Okay, now let's go back to the admin forum and have another party.

[Inoldonil]

:lol:

You know it's a funny thing about that Moderator's Forum, you kinda need a password to get in ... and seeing as I don't have one .. it appears I'm not invited. Curious. :mad: