The TRUE meaning of Bilbo

[Treebeard's apprentice]

While searching through the dictionary today, i happened to glance at two entries for bilbo. Here they are:

bilbo(1)- usu. bilboes. A long iron bar fastened at one end by a lock, with sliding shackles. Bilboes were formerly used to confine the ankles of prisoners.

bilbo (2)- Archaic a slender sword or rapier noted for the temper of its blade.

The dictionary also said the words probably came from Bilbao, a city in Spain famous for its steel. I thought this was interesting and wanted to share it with the online community.

[Wayfarer]

Wow! That's really neat!

Now do you want to tell us the meaning of the word Orc?

[markedel]

Of course what is Bibo's name in Westron?

[FrodoFriend]

That is interesting. Neither of those definitions really makes me think of Bilbo though . . . I wonder if Tolkien knew?

[markedel]

Bilbo's name is meaningless check appendix F

[Wayfarer]

Yes. Bilbo, Frodo, Peregrin,a nd most other hobbit names were all fairly meaningless.

[Ñólendil]

Sarcastic and mean as ever Shannon, I congratulate you.

The archaic sense of Bilbo seems to fit, it reminds me of Sting. Though Wayfarer may find your information obvious, it was new at least to me.

"Bilbo"'s not exactly "meaningless", which I suppose is what Shannon (Wayfarer) the Insufferable was getting at. It is an anglicisation of a Westron word of forgotton meaning. Bilbo Baggins's genuine Hobbitish name was Bilba Labingi. In Westron "a" was masculine and "o" and "e" were feminine, so Tolkien took the name of forgotton meaning (Bilba), and merely changed the ending letter. That's Tolkien's explanation anyway.

I bet originally he simply chose Bilbo for a name because of the meaning set out by Treebeard's apprentice above.

[FrodoFriend]

That makes sense to me. And actually, Wayfarer, the hobbits' names weren't meaningless. They were all anglicized; in each case, the original Westron name had some meaning that Tolkien preserved when he translated the names into Old English equivalents. So if you spoke Old English, I guess the names would mean something to you.

These are what the names mean, as far as I can recall:

Frodo = Maura = "wise from experience"
Samwise = Banazir = "dim, halfwitted"
Pippin = Razarnur (?) = something to do with apples
Meriadoc = Kalimac = and Kali, his nickname, means "merry, happy"

Peregrin actually means wanderer, I think (as in peregrine falcon).

[markedel]

Kalimac itself is meaningless just like Meriadoc is modern English, its derivative happens to mean Merry.

[Wayfarer]

They don't mean much of anything in modern english.
And any homonym's are strictly coincidental.

Tolkien took word-forms that appealed to him and joined them with relevant translations. So 'maura', etc. Then he took words with similar meanings in older languages and altered them.

[Comic Book Guy]

Orc is an actual word, it's a kind of Dolphin.

[Wayfarer]

I know. I Know. That's why I used it.

The word Orc in english and Orcs in tolkien are completely unrelated.

Tolkein commented on it himself.

[Ñólendil]

Here's a quote from Tolkien found in Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed:

Orcs
This spelling was taken from Old English. The word seemed, in itself, very suitable to the creatures that I had in mind. But the Old English orc in meaning -- so far as that is known -- is not suitable. Also the spelling of what, in the later more organized linguistic sitation, must have been a Common Speech form of a word or group of similar words should be ork. If only because of spelling difficulties in modern English: an adjective orc + ish becomes necessary, and orcish will not do.[note 8] In any fture publication I shall use ork.

Note 8: 'orcish will not do': because it would be pronounced 'orsish'. The Orkish language was so spelt in The Lord of the Rings from the First Edition

One section of the Annals of Aman (with Ælfwine's observation in parenthesis) saysThen Morgoth being freed gathered again all his servants that he could find, and he delved anew his vast vaults and his dungeons in that place which the Noldor after called Angband, and above them he reared th reeking towers of Thangorodrim. There countless became the hosts of his beasts and his demons: and thence there now came forth in hosts beyond count the fell race of the Orkor, that had grown and multiplied in the bowels of the earth like a plague. These creatures Morgoth bred in envy and mockery of the Eldar. In form they were like unto the Children of Ilúvatar, yet foul to look upon; for they were bred in hatred, and with hatred they were filed; and he loathed the things that he had wrought, and with loathing they served him. Their voices were as the clashing of stones, and they laughed not save only at torment and cruel deeds. The Glamhoth, host of tumult, the Noldor called them. (Orcs we name them; for in days of old they were strong and fell as demons. Yet they were not of demon kind, but children of earth corrupted by Morgoth, and they could be slain or destroyed by the valiant with weapons of war. ... )

[Bilbo]

I Like This Thread, its all about ME

I never realised the potential in my steelistic name. (no, I don't understand myself either).
I also agree that my name is meaningless, but then again my creator never knew that I meant something in another language.

By the way, won't it be weird when I become an elven warrior? I'll stop existing as a hobbit

[Wayfarer]

So that's waht happened to bilbo in Aman!

[Elf Girl]

A bilbo is a traditional Coloniel toy which has a little wooden cup or pedestal on the end of a stick, and a ball on a string attached to the stick, you try to land the ball in the cup by tossing it in the air. (the ball, not the toy)

[Treebeard's apprentice]

A bilbo is a traditional Coloniel toy which has a little wooden cup or pedestal on the end of a stick, and a ball on a string attached to the stick, you try to land the ball in the cup by tossing it in the air. (the ball, not the toy)

So that's what it's called. I always just called it a ball-and-cup thingie.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Yes. Bilbo, Frodo, Peregrin,a nd most other hobbit names were all fairly meaningless.

So speaketh the guy who has a girly name... :D

[Michelle The Fair]

I once saw Bilbo on a web page for unusal baby names .

[Agburanar]

In the glossary of my 'complete works of Shakespeare' book it give 'Bilbo' as:
A kind of sword with a long reach. (The Merry Wives of Windsor)
Do you suppose this was intentional? I'm always naming characters in my stories by using foreign words to reveal their characters, did Tolkien do the same? Is there evidence that other characters have meanings behind their names? Will we ever know if the Balrog had wings? What am I having for lunch?...

Okay, not the last two perhaps!:confused:

[Duddun]

hmmmm...Interesting point. I don't think he did but he might of. Maybe for The Hobbit he did, and then for LotR he didn't. I don't know.

[Utúllelyo]

I believe in a way Tolkien did do these things on purpose. At least some of them anyway. Im not sure about Bilbo, but i believe Frodo means "Wise through experience" and if thats coincidental than im a toad.

[Duddun]

I don't think your a toad cause I understood you.:D Too bad tho. I always wanted to be a toad. It probably wasn't coincidental.

[SamwiseGamgeeOTS]

i've read a lotta Shakespear and never picked up on that....wow.

[Ma Uai: Ua Nemti]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that many authors get inspirations for character names from their friends or from things they've read. I also remeber reading that Tolkien was very much inspired by Norse mythology. Call me crazy...........no really.........call me crazy.;)

[L@ur@y Elven Warrior]

Thats a cool meaning of a name.

[WallRocker]

Originally posted by Wayfarer

Now do you want to tell us the meaning of the word Orc? You were being sarcastic, right? doesn't Orc mean 'demon' and Tolkien wanted it to be change to 'Ork'?

[Eothain]

wow

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
So speaketh the guy who has a girly name... :D

I once lived near a chick who had the same first and last names as me. Getting her mail was pretty annoying.

Actually, my name is anything but meaningless. It's a derivation of the celtic Seanan (Seanen is the spelling which I prefer) the short definition of which is 'wise one'. ]: ) In sindarin I would be Ersaeliphant.

And my siblings are Swift Wind, On Edge, and Listens Well.

The thing is, while most names are rich in meaning, you have to dig a little. The names give for hobbits are even more so than usual.

Samwise, for example comes from the westron name meaning 'half wise'-which is similar to what samwise means.
Frodo/maura likewise.

Perhaps the most interesting hobbit name is merry, who in westron was called 'kali'-which means 'merry' in westron but something entirely different in hindi.

[Rían]

** hey Wayfarer, could you please clean out your PM mailbox - I wanted to PM you something :) **

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
It's a derivation of the celtic Seanan (Seanen is the spelling which I prefer) the short definition of which is 'wise one'. ]: )

'Wise-ass' is more appropriate. :p

[Agburanar]

"Can you tell us the meaning of 'orc'?"

Orcs were originally a type of daemon, Swedish I believe. Tolkien was originally going to call them goblins but changed the name to orcs because it sounded less comic and more evil.

[Wayfarer]

I know, Aganburur, :) I was trying to make a point. ]: )

When I was very young, I made the mistake of assuming that the dictionary definition was the same as the tolkien definition, and got into an argument about it. Allow me to subtly hint that we should all be careful where we get our information. :)

[Pimpernel]

I haven't read much Shakespeare or any other big old important book things (well I am trying to read The Brothers Karamozov but I don't think that counts here), that makes sense. The whole thing about Frodo's name is cool. Has anyone read Norse mythology? I'm interested in all mythology but never read Norse. I did know that Tolkien based a lot of the stuff in his books on it. And that he wanted to write a myth for England (seeing as Norse peoples are kind of from around England, that would make much sense). Though its sad because LotR isn't really England's myth, its like the fantasy book of the world. Its sort of England's myth though, because I think Tolkien when I hear "England" (well, I think Tolkien or LotR when I hear anything but that is NOT the point I'm trying to make). It looks kind of like I'm rambling now, Maybe I shoulf stop. I will stop. Now. I will stop now!
(disregard those last few sentences please)

[Wayfarer]

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3899

[azalea]

Ha ha, I just merged the threads, so now your post makes no sense!:D *dances w/ glee at rendering something nonsensical*

(I hope no one minds that I did that. Just flexing the new mod muscles:cool: )

[Wayfarer]

*/staffbaps Azalea.

[azalea]

Hey!
:p

[Agburanar]

Did you know there was a mythical beast called a Valgrob or something? A beast of fire no less... But this one was supposed to guard against evil spirits.