The ring of Barahir

[Finrod Felagund]

Ok. The ring of Barahir was made in Valinor, given by Finrod to Barahir, saved by Beren, used by Beren to remind Finrod of his oath, was an heirloom of the kings of Numenor and the lords of Adunie and of the north kingdom. It would seem to me that the Ring would be a greater heirloom than the Elendilmir (star of the north which was in place of a crown). Why is so little emhasis placed on it?

[Pailan]

Good question. That this ring lasted for thousands of years, was never lost, and had such a legacy- is amazing. Imagine wearing a ring that was made around the time of the Silmarils, all the great and near great people who had in their possesion. But for all that, it remains just a ring. No special powers so I guess it just remains jewelry and a long lived heirloom.

[markedel]

Because it is obviously just an heirloom. It has power from its ancestry alone, and this is mentioned somewhere in appendice A by Arvedui. The Elendilmir had inherant power in it-its light shone even when isildur wore the ring, and I assume its knockoff (the one Aragorn wore) had some similar light.

Also neither are important in terms of kingship. The symbol of royalty in Arnor was the scepter. (Tolkien had a lower and upper Egypt thing going on with the relams in exile).

Aragron probably never wore the ring (it was stored in Rivendell), and if he did what's more noticeable-shiny fillet or little ring?

[Wayfarer]

The dunedain did pay a fortune to get it back from the lossoth.

[markedel]

It's still a cool heirloom. Just not as important as say-the sceptre as Adunie.

[Snowdog]

The Ring of Barahir always had an intriguing quality to it, as did the Kingdom of Arnor for me. OI wrote a fanfic story about the giving of the ring to the Lossoth by King Arvedui before he boarded the Elven ship, and the return of said ring to the line of Isildur.

Now, about the sceptre, wasn't it one of the Numenorean Kings ??

[Sister Golden Hair]

It amazes me how Tolkien can create such a magnificent character as Finrod, and then have his importance cut down to a simple character. He makes him the youngest of the great lords of the Noldor, but yet the wisest. He makes him fairest of all the princes of the Noldor, yet he seems out done by many of mortal men. Here is a King that ruled the largest Noldorin realm in Beleriand, yet Gondolin and even Doriath are more significant. We have a powerful Elf that is the first of all to meet Men, yet, he takes a back seat to Elves of lesser accomplishments. Now here we are with heirlooms. The Ring of Barahir, not so important, and only an heirloom, yet it possessed jewels of Valinor that you would think would be of central importance, especially in the Third Age. And what of the Nauglamir? Originally it was Thingols, but ended up as the story changed as a gift from the Dwarves to Finrod. I love Tolkien, but I can't figure out this under rated recognition for this character. He giveth, and he taketh away.

[Ñólendil]

Actually as the Nauglamir story from J. R. R. goes, it had little connection with Finrod. The Dwarves made it for Thingol.

[Wayfarer]

It's my opinion that that's what tolkien intended.

Take feanor-he was incredibly gifted, yet he screwed up and everybody hates him.

Now look at finrod-he accomplished quite a bit, but he never did anything spectacular. And yet, and yet... He's the mot loved elf of all time. why is that?

I think that the central aspect of finrod's character is emotional. It's not that he's central, or that he accomplished great feats, but that the reader hurts for him. He's wonderful enough to make you cry.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Actually as the Nauglamir story from J. R. R. goes, it had little connection with Finrod. The Dwarves made it for Thingol. So, what you're saying is that the account in the Silmarillion is a mistake on the part of C.T.?

[Ñólendil]

Yes. We've talked about this before. Christopher Tolkien covers it in War of the Jewels. Almost everything in the Silmarillion about the Fall of Doriath is pretty screwy.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Yes. We've talked about this before. Christopher Tolkien covers it in War of the Jewels. Almost everything in the Silmarillion about the Fall of Doriath is pretty screwy. Thanks Nolendil. I haven't got around to WotJs yet.

[Ñólendil]

Oh you must get it. Especially since you already have Morgoth's Ring.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Oh you must get it. Especially since you already have Morgoth's Ring. Oh I have it, along with the PoMe. I just haven't got to them yet.

[Eldanuumea]

Finrod is like Sam, in a way......one of those characters who don't get the "press" other, flashier characters get but who really bears the burden of the tale. I must say, I just finished another Sil reading, and I love Sir Felagund more with each reading.:cool:

BTW, Everyone notice I now have an avatar! Many thanks to the friend who set me up!;)

[barrelrider110]

And a very entertaining avatar it is.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
It amazes me how Tolkien can create such a magnificent character as Finrod, and then have his importance cut down to a simple character. He makes him the youngest of the great lords of the Noldor, but yet the wisest. He makes him fairest of all the princes of the Noldor, yet he seems out done by many of mortal men. Here is a King that ruled the largest Noldorin realm in Beleriand, yet Gondolin and even Doriath are more significant. We have a powerful Elf that is the first of all to meet Men, yet, he takes a back seat to Elves of lesser accomplishments. Now here we are with heirlooms. The Ring of Barahir, not so important, and only an heirloom, yet it possessed jewels of Valinor that you would think would be of central importance, especially in the Third Age. And what of the Nauglamir? Originally it was Thingols, but ended up as the story changed as a gift from the Dwarves to Finrod. I love Tolkien, but I can't figure out this under rated recognition for this character. He giveth, and he taketh away.

I agree with you and I do not, Sister Golden Hair. :)

Did Tolkien really make Finrod such a second rate character? Look at the list you yourself compiled... Pretty impressive, huh? And there is more...

And still despite it all, he is rather played down in a way. And yet his role alone in robbing Morgoth of one Silmaril assured his eternal fame, no?

I wonder what it would have been like had JRRT, not CT, really come up with a finished version of The Sil?

[Eldanuumea]

I tend to think Kirinki has something there....who knows how more developed a role Finrod, as well as possibly other characters, might have had if Tolkien himself had put the finishing touches on the Sil?

[Beruthiel]

Hmmm.... I was always one to point out that Barahir's Ring was still around, and that Aragorn wore it as a token and badge of his lineage. I also feared greatly for him. It occured to me that if he bumped into some of the older servants of Sauron that he might have a problem if they recognised it. Sometimes I think that Aragorn DID have a few scuffles with some of these shady characters, but did away with them before they could deliver the news back to the big guy.:eek:

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Aragorn gave it to Arwen when they became engaged. Fittingly romantic, after the way Beren had used it before Thingol when Luthien brought him into Menegroth.

I remember Beren used it later to gain safe passage on his way to Nargothrond, so he didn't give it to Luthien, at least not then. Did he ever? What happened to it from that time in Nargothrond until the Dunedain redeemed it from the snow-dwellers of Forochel?

[Rían]

Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
Aragorn gave it to Arwen when they became engaged.

He did?? I remember Elrond gave it to Aragorn, but can't remember Aragorn giving it to Arwen. (I love that line when Aragorn meets Arwen for the first time and says (basically) "I haven't seen YOU before, has your dad kept you locked up in his hoard?)

I agree about the ring, though - what a marvelous heirloom!

[The Lady of Ithilien]

I love this board -- there are always excuses to go back into the books :)

That was a good line of Aragorn's, wasn't it. The note on Aragorn giving the ring of Barahir to Arwen was obscure -- it's in Appendix B, year 2980 of the Third Age. Somehow it didn't get into the part of the tale of Aragorn and Arwen that's in Appendix A.

I just saw that there are numerous references to the ring of Barahir in The Silmarillion but haven't the energy to go in and look them up just now to see if my question is answered there.

[Rían]

Thanks for the reference, Lady of Ithilien :) Sure enough, he did! What a neat gift - I enjoy things that I have from my great grandmother, and that's only a short time compared to how old that ring is.

[Lefty Scaevola]

The ring of barahir was not used as a sybol of royalty in Numenor (and in fact was passed to a junior line of of the royal family), nor was it so used in Arnor or Athedain. it appears to have been a perosnal heirloom of the family, rather that a royal heirloom. Note however that is is always used as a symbol of faithfullness, fidelity. Every time it is mentioned it is in connection with the making or keeping of a pedge.

[markedel]

And elendil being the faithful it is fitting, as with the northern line which maintained its blood tie to elendil.

[Dain]

An Elven ring, made by the Noldor in Valinor and given by Finrod to Barahir during Dagor Bragollach as a pledge of his aid to Barahir and his kin. When Barahir was slain in Dorthonion, his hand, bearing the Ring, was cut off for proof of his death, but Beren recovered both hand and ring, at great peril to himself. He brought the ring to Nargothrond during the Quest of the Silmarils, and Finrod fulfilled his pledge, giving his life to save Beren in the dungeons of Minas Tirith.
The ring was somehow preserved through the rest of the First Age and passed into the hands of the Faithful Numenor in the Second Age. In the Third Age it was one of the Heirlooms of the North-Kingdom; at the fall of Arthedain Arvedui gave it to the chief of the Lossoth, from whom it was afterwards ransomed. Thereafter it was kept at Rivendell.
The ring was in the fashion of two serpents with emerald eyes, one devouring and the other supporting a crown of golden flowers. Also called the ring of Felagund

[Rían]

It's interesting to picture Beren walking through the Guarded Plain, holding up the ring to keep himself from getting shot by the hidden archers of Nargothrond.