Biggs at the Pelennor Fields

[Fat middle]

In spite of its weird tittle, no, i don´t think this belongs to the SW forum. Don´t take it too serious anyway. Yesterday i was reading the battle of the Pelennor Fields, when i read in the last verses the name of Halbarad. Then i began to think... this Halabarad seems to be an old friend of Aragorn; surely they were great comrades since childs (in The Passing of the Grey Company Aragorn seems to enjoy more the incoming of Halbarad than the rest of the Dunedain or the sons of Elrond); they have been separated by the chances of the war and destiny; and finally, in the hour of the great battle, destiny make ´em join again. But Halabarad dies in the battle :( . And i thought, “i have seen this story in other site. Wait, i´ve got it: Halabarad is the Biggs of the Pelennor Fields”. I´m not saying this is a great archetype, but for me at least, both characters wake the same feelings. But then i couldn´t stop wondering... “and who will be the Wedge of Pelennor?”. I´m one of the thousands fans of Wedge, the hidden hero, the loyal fellow, always in the right place at the right moment to do his “good shot” and vanish again in the namelessness (if that word exists). The parallel is not perfect, but Prince Imrahil is very Wedge-like for me: he isn´t important to the main plot, but his ransom of Faramir and his warning about Eowyn still living were very, very good shots. Yeah, now i´ve got it. The battle of Yavin4 is only a recreation of the Pelennor Fields. I don´t know who is Red Leader (perhaps someone drowned into Anduin, or almost... there), but Han Solo is clearly Aragorn, arriving in the late hour. Luke is Eowyn, because she´s the greatest hero of the battle, and because Artoo is Meriadoc (the very real hero). Wait, i´m forgetting the most impressive character... Who is Porkins? ...processing, processing... please, wait a minute... Eureka, here it is. Porkins is Forlong the Fat. I can hear him “Forlong the Fat standing by...” :)

[Hernalt]

Impressive!.. Most impressive...

[IronParrot]

What Hernalt said.

[Darth Tater]

What they said ;)

[IronParrot]

Wait a minute. Then who would the Star Wars equivalent of the Ringwraith be?

[bmilder]

Geez, is that all that happens around here?? Someone makes a big post, and then we just say "good job" ?? :P

[IronParrot]

The reason why I never posted all that often at the JC was because people did the same thing to me.

[anduin]

"perhaps someone drowned into Anduin, or almost... there" Wait a minute, are you referring to me? Both are sn of mine......

[Fat middle]

you got it! :)

[Elanor]

Yes, very amusing. Then Darth Vader's the Witch King?

[Fat middle]

of course, with the Black Breath and all ;)

[Darth Tater]

NO, we need a dead bad guy. What's his face, Tarkin.

[Eruve]

So the Emperor is Sauron and Vader is what? The Mouth of Sauron?

[galadriel1]

Interesting correlations there, FM. I have never thought of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in regards to SW before..

[galadriel1]

A better analogy would be that the Emperor was Morgoth of old and that Vader is Sauron. Ok, so Morgoth wasn`t at the Pelennnor Fields but this analogy/correlation seems to make sense to me.

[Darth Tater]

Ok, this is getting too complicated! Finally a thread comes along where it doesn't seem like we'll have to think, and look what we do! We should change the name of the board to "Overanylize everything." ;)

[IronParrot]

We're not overanalysing. Everybody else is underanalysing.

[Darth Tater]

Um, ok then ;)

[Elanor]

Actually, we're not analyzing at all. We're just babbling. Don't you dare take us seriously! Wouldn't Frodo be Luke, going into the evil stronghold (and the death star is SO pathetic compared to Mordor) to get rid of the source of the evil? Hm, then who would Sam be?

[Darth Tater]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up Elanor

[IronParrot]

Actually, I say Sam would make an even better Wedge!

[Fat middle]

Underanalysing. That sounds pretty well. Frodo, Sam... but what about Gollum? I say that Gollum is Han. *Gollum bites Frodo´s finger and falls to the abyss yelling: "Yahoo!"*

[Elanor]

lol! But Gollum is so unromantic. You know what I mean? A little too much raw fish when he should have been eating his vegetables. So that would make the Ring Leia? *attempts to imagine Han calling Leia, "my precioussssss" *

[Darth Tater]

But that would mean that Leia died, no good

[IronParrot]

Another LOTR-SW parallel (I thought of this when you mentioned the Ring and how Leia dies)... Can anyone say... pits and chasms? <small>(Or have I been reading too deep into the Ivory Tower thread at the JC?)</small>

[Hernalt]

The Truth Is, IronParrot, that the IvoryTower thread in the JC is just a hint of what's coming. I suggest everyone bone up on refractive matching of Jungian archtypes and Campbellean myth-making. If anyone so much as peeps that they don't see where Star Wars intersects LOTR, I'll... I'll..

I'll LOOK AT THEM FUNNY!

It doesn't matter where the discussion takes place, but here's the floormap of the Smithsonian exhibit for The Magic of Myth: www.nasm.edu/StarWars/galmap.htm (http://www.nasm.edu/StarWars/galmap.htm )Run through the exhibit, get choked up about the grand scope of Star Wars, and just let the LOTR parallels speak to you. (From the Force! hehe) Anyway - the point is that many characters between the two sagas will overlap qualities of the other. Sauron will have aspects of both Palpatine and Vader, while Vader will have aspects of the Witchking and Mouth of Sauron, while the Witchking will have aspects of Darth Vader AND Darth Maul, while Darth Maul will also have characteristics of the Moria Balrog. So have fun with it! And that's just the bad guys. What I'd be happy to hear about from *Anyone is their impression of *Where it is that Tolkien conveys the principle of Redemption - cause I see pressssious little of it.

Back to Pellenor Fields vs. Battle of Yavin: How about "We're going in full throttle!" vs. the Rhoheran cavalry charge with Eomer crying "Death! Death!" Similarities? Differences?

[Elanor]

Here's an interesting way to find parallels which has no relation to the Pelennor fields but just came to my mind so I'm inflicting it upon you:

Everyone in my family has a LotR role. I'm Sam because I'm easygoing, like plants, and always end up carrying my little sister Frodo around. We also have SW roles--I'm Chewbacca because I'm tall and have a lot of hair. :p But actually Sam and Chewy have a lot in common, if you think about it. We do this a lot, and I never realized it was a type of Campbellian analysis until last year. I guess that not only are story archetypes in our blood, but also a subconscious awareness of them.

[Guardian 452]

There's also the fact that Middle Earth is actually called Endor...

[emilsson]

Hernalt´s post got me thinking and so I started thinking about some other parallells. Luke clearly is a lot like Frodo, but also shares many traits with Aragorn. I also think Leia combines aspects of both Arwen and Eowyn.

I remember that I once made a parallell between Yoda ( in ESB and ROTJ ) and Elrond a year ago on the JC. I recall my thinking was something like that both of them had taken on more passive roles, providing wisdom and shelter for some time to the hero/heroes.

There was also something about the similarities between Palpatine and Sauron. Both fooled people, Palpatine the Republic and Sauron tricked the elves so he could make the Ring. That allowed them to gain the power they wanted. In short, they appeared as false Prometheuses, promising freedom but in the end they only brought slavery and suffering.