My latest school assignmnet

[Darth Tater]

I have to write a compare and contrast paper, guess what I'm doing it on?














guess yet?














If you said star wars and lotr you're right!!!! ding ding ding!!!
Anywho, I'm mostly consentrating on the mythological and allegorical aspects of the stories. Any help/ideas/meatloaf would be greatly appreciated

[IronParrot]

Start by drawing parallels between Obi-Wan and Gandalf. That will definitely get you places fast. Other character parallels would be great and effective as well.

Then talk about how in both LOTR and Star Wars, there is not really a definite good or a definite evil, and how everything has to do with corruption - good becoming evil, and in the odd case evil becoming good again.

There's a ton of ideas... wait while I organize my thoughts before I fire some more at you...

[Yazad]

Geesh, I just read this post and I've never seen so much pontification in one place. I apologize. All of the below is just my ill-conceived opinion and bears little meaning other than to throw some ideas out, if you're interested in exploring them. Sorry about going on, but work is boring today!



Regarding allegory, remember that to his dying day, as far as I know, Tolkien denied that Lord of the Rings was allegorical in any way (and, in particular, to WWII, which is often assumed). In his forward to later editions he stated outright that he didn't care much for allegory (which I always thought odd as C. S. Lewis was such a good friend of his). Now all that means is that there were no consciously intended parallels to events on his part; it doesn't mean that they don't exist. I think it might be better to speak of interpretation instead of allegory. Just my thought on that.

As far as evil vs. good goes, I think this would be a great point for a contrast. I think that both Tolkien and Lucas are guilty of having obvious evil and good, black and white. There are, of course, shades here and there, but for the most part if you took a look at Sauron or Vader, you'd know which side he was on. Yet with Star Wars, I think it's made much more simplistic. So many of the things which occur which define you as either "evil" or "good" are little split second decisions that cannot be changed without another such decision. "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." But the fact of the matter, in my opinion at least, is that the moment we are born we have begun the long trek to hell, and it's a perpetual struggle to stay as close to this side of the track as you can. Terry Gilliam discusses the issue well in Brazil (and directly in the movie's commentary) with a dislike for the black and white of the Star Wars films. There we have people just doing their jobs and the thought of being good or evil may not even occur to them. Like Orwell said in 1984, evil will become ever more powerful and ever more subtle, and it's the stuff we deal with day in and day out, not generally some dramatic "Strike me down with your anger and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete". It is a long eroding process which is so slow we may not even notice, yet in the end the vision of the future is "a boot stomping on a human face forever". (Not, of course, that dramatic changes for good or evil can't or don't take place, but rather that situations like that are more often the exception to the general rule). In Lord of the Rings the best example we have of corruption is that of Saruman, I think, and his is a slow "ends justify the means" journey, apparently aided along through his use of the Palantir of Orthanc. This is, of course, similar to Vader, but at the same time quite distinct. I suppose we don't *know* exactly how Vader falls, but from what I understand it will be another quick decision, and perhaps even include him being fooled into joining the Dark Side. With Saruman, though, we see him simply following the goals that he has set himself to for ages. Knowledge, Rule, Order, and as time wears on, the means by which he attains these goals matters less and less, until ultimately he stands almost equal to and on the same side as Sauron, his enemy, yet he may not even see it. Saruman is not dominated by some dark force, he is creating his own future as he sees fit. "White is a good beginning, a while cloth may be died, a white page may be written upon".

Obi-Wan/Gandalf, is also a great subject (as IronParrot said), but don't forget that there are great contrasts to them as well as comparisons. Obi-Wan is guilty, Gandalf is not. Obi-Wan's pride is the direct cause for the apparent (although ultimately redeemed) damnation of a fellow being. Obi-Wan is responsible for Vader becoming evil (until good old Georgie-boy completely de-mystified the entire mythology by having Obi-Wan take the silly death bed oath in the gawd awful prequel), he is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi Knights and bears that stain upon his soul to his dying day. Gandalf, on the other hand, has no such blemish, so far as I know. He is more whole, real, and at the same time more pure. He is wiser (and perhaps thus less human) and knows where he must draw the line ("don't give the ring to me"), and carefully weighs decisions before he makes them. Yet he always chooses the paths which will serve the light, and what is more interesting, is that there are often many paths he could choose, and he doesn't always make the most direct choice, yet always keeps his eye on the pure goal.

OMG, I've certainly rambled far more than is my fair share. Sorry!!!

[IronParrot]

I think that both Tolkien and Lucas are guilty of having obvious evil and good, black and white. There are, of course, shades here and there, but for the most part if you took a look at Sauron or Vader, you'd know which side he was on.
I disagree. I think the beauty of LOTR and Star Wars is that an obvious evil and good, black and white are not absolutely set. Sauron didn't begin as the Dark Lord. Darth Vader didn't begin as evil, and he didn't end as evil either. He was corrupted. Boromir? Gollum? All corrupt. They are at ONE point evil or close to, but NEVER at the absolute extreme. And I think that's really what makes these stories great. It all has to do with starting out good, but being tempted to darkness.

[Darth Tater]

Thanks you both. IronParrot, your first post actually contained a lot of my original ideas. Also, I agree with you, the good and evil part is great and actually one of the less obvious in the genre.

[etherealunicorn]

Without going into a great deal of detail, consider the source of the quest idea, which both LotR and Star Wars use. Stories of Arthur. Consider.
Compare the characters of Luke Skywalker, Aragorn, and Arthur. They all arise to power from hidden places, where they have been kept secret until events require them.
I'm sure you folks have already thought up other similarities.
Best of luck on the paper.

[IronParrot]

Yeah. I think it's important to distinguish between what originated in a past source that LOTR and SW both got ideas from, and what ideas in SW originated in LOTR itself... that would be an interesting case study.

[etherealunicorn]

Just to muddy the waters a bit more, has anyone heard the late Isaac Asimov's opinion concerning the supposed allegory in LotR? I thought that this was an interesting little tidbit.
Anyhoo, Asimov maintains that the one ring, a thing that one feared but perversely wanted; a thing that once one had it could not let it go, symbolizes industrial technology, which uproots the green land and replaces it with ugly structures under a pall of chemical pollution. But technology meant power, and though it destroys the environment and would eventually destroy the earth, no one who had it would dare give it up or even want to.
Admittedly, this may be old news to most of you, but I thought it rather an intriguing notion. There did seem to be some basis for it, despite Tolkien's denial of any conscious allegory.
And now, having delivered my two cents worth,
Have a nice day, folks :)

[The One Ring]

the one ring, a thing that one feared but perversely wanted

Thank you! :D

[etherealunicorn]

err...you are more than welcome, One Ring, but I don't quite follow what you are thanking me for (assuming that your comment was directed at me). :)

[anduin]

I think he is trying to be cute........:p

[The One Ring]

Just a rather silly comment, based of course on the fact that I am both frightening and irresistable.

[etherealunicorn]

Ah! ;0..
:D I get it now. Well, you know how it is....it's been one of those days...just a leetle slow. I thought maybe it was something about the quote itself.
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> .
Hope everyone out there is having a nice day. :)

[Darth Tater]

Well anywho I handed in the paper today and everyone who's read it says I'm gauranteed an A. Thank you all for your help.

[anduin]

I hope you spelled everything correctly. :p

[bmilder]

LOL, he didn't! :lol: He sent me his essay and I found numerous spelling and punctuation errors that apparently his teacher and parents did not catch!