Gandalf's chat with Bombadil

[bmilder]

Near the end of RotK, Gandalf goes to have a "long talk" with Bombadil. What do you think they discussed? At the Council of Elrond I believe they said that he didn't particularly care about the affairs of the outside world, so what would be the point of telling him?

[Darth Tater]

Though Bombadill didnt' really care this was a time of great change in the world and he was, after all, an ancient spirit who obviously knew of the worlds history and was very wise. I think they discussed where the world was heading. I'm sure they both saw the dominion of man on the horizon, and they must have talked about what would happen to other races and how they should guide the human race.

[IronParrot]

And let's not rule out the possibility that the two could just be having a friendly long-time-no-see chat.

[Spock1]

Perhaps to enjoy a chat with one of the eldest before departing Middle Earth. He had already spoken with Treebeard, and Tom certainly fits into that category.

[Michael Martinez]

I think Gandalf's words at Rivendell don't really aim toward what most people perceive. I can't say they are being taken out of context because there is really no context. I mean, there just isn't much said about Bombadil.

Gandalf says Bombadil would be a bad keeper for the Ring, because he wouldn't understand the need for having someone keep it. In one of his letters, Tolkien writes

"The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless. It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war. But the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron."

When the Ring tried to tempt Bombadil it couldn't offer him anything that he wanted. He didn't want to control things, he wanted to understand them, and Bombadil was already comfortable with the corner of the world in which he was living. So the Ring, in Tolkien's words, had no "effect" on Bombadil (meaning, it could not arouse any sense of desire in Bombadil which he thought the Ring might satisfy, either truly or falsely).

Bombadil knew the history of the wars but did he really understand their causes? He understood that Old Man Willow was inimical to things which walked on two legs, but he didn't perceive Willow as a threat. He didn't seem to perceive Sauron or Sauron's servants as a threat. Or, maybe, he understood that one side or the other would have to prevail, and it would better for the world if Sauron didn't prevail, but he didn't want to choose sides. He let the conflict move on out of the bounds of the land over which he was keeping watch.

With Bombadil, therefore, the Ring truly could be lost, because "out of sight, out of mind" would work with him. No one else would be able to forget it, because it would mean too much to them. It would at least be a threat, at most be a means of defeating Sauron. To Bombadil it was neither. It was just something which he had assured himself had no mastery over him. He was done with it after his test. So he would indeed be a truly untrustworthy keeper, even though he could probably be prevailed upon to take it.

[arynetrek]

Michael Martinez, you made me look up the word "inimical" - THANK YOU!

i'd write on this, but i need a few days to think first.

aryne *

[Darth Tater]

MM, good quote as usual.