<- It's chibi-Gollum! j/k! K, bout Cirith Ungol...

[Digigirl]

Did anyone else feel this pang of pity for poor Frodo when Sam felt him lying in those rags? In Cirith Ungol?
Wah, poor hobbit!
And I need to get off the Internet now...my parents are getting mad...

[arynetrek]

if you mean the scene where Shelob attacks Sam & Frodo, my feelings are more along the lines of "oh my gods! they're both going to die! damn that sneak Gollum!"

aryne *

[Michael Martinez]

I probably shouldn't say this, but I fell asleep the first time I read that passage. When I woke up, Sam was beating on the door....

[arynetrek]

"Frodo! Mr. Frodo, my dear!"

now someone's uncanny knowledge of middle-earth makes sense...

;)

aryne *

[Digigirl]

Lol...

Gah! I can't get enough of that adorable Gollum icon!

*huggles imaginary Gollum plushie* :D

Heh, sorry. :p

Anyway, we won't even GO to Sam's Frodo quotes. Yick, the first time my friend read LOTR, they asked me-

"Uh, why did Tolkien make Sam gay?"

I stared at her in shock, then asked her to elaborate.

Then I kidnly explained that no, Samwise was NOT gay, but merely displaying a 'brotherly/friendly' affection for his master.

Well, Tina is STILL convinced Sam is one gay little Hobbit. In a happy way thouh, thankfully. *^_^*

[arynetrek]

well, why CAN'T Sam be gay? i admit i didn't think about this until someone in this board brought it up, but it makes sense. He could have fallen in love with Frodo on the journey - shared danger breeds intimacy. of course, he did marry Rose & have THIRTEEN children, so i doubt he was gay. but if Tolkien had written the story's end differently (namely leaving out Sam's marriage & kids), it would make a lot of sense for Sam to be gay.

and if he's not, he loves Frodo & stood by him through all sorts of hell. what does this mean? that sam & frodo were incredibly close & Sam loved Frodo more than he loved his own security. if only all good friends were that caring...

MM - hear anything about this?

aryne *

[Darth Tater]

Brotherly love used to be the way of things. It wasn't long ago that men hugged and kissed each other on the cheak and were considered normal. In this age where everyone who was ever famous is said to have been gay (Michelangelo? Come on, the man was a God-fearing Catholic!) Sam's affection for Frodo is taken to mean more then it does. Or maybe to mean less. A close friendship like they have is very important, and if everyone could be like that this would probably be a much better world. Tolkien wasn't the kinda guy who woulda written a gay character either, and I never even got a sense of this till someone on the net mentioned it. Maybe it's because I've grown up in a more traditional way, since in my religion brotherly love is something we practice.

[arynetrek]

great post!

aryne *

[anduin]

What difference does it make if he was a "God fearing Catholic" or not? You can look at Mic's celibacy two ways.....he was either gay or straight (obviously). Either way I believe he chose celibacy for the same reason a priest or a nun chooses it....and not because it comes with the territory, but because his whole life and love was dedicated to God, not to someone of the flesh, whether it be man or woman. I am bothered by the words "God fearing". Anyone who claims to "so love the world that he gave his only son", does not seem to me to want anyone to fear him, but to love him. Tater, you speak of brotherly love, yet you speak also of fear. I don't see how it can be both ways. If you fear, you can not love....and if you love, you do not fear.

[Darth Tater]

That's a big question. In light that this is about to create another evolution-like conversationg I'll start a thread later in general instead of going into it here