Reading assignment! PLEASE HELP ME!!

[Elyse610]

For summer reading assignmets we have two projects to do: an essay on how Frodo fits the archetypical pattern of the hero's journey and a chart. In the chart we have to identify different elements of a hero and make different labels on a character (besides Frodo) of how they are a hero. I chose Sam for my character. If anyone could plese help me out with this assignment SOON I would greatly appreciate it. So to sum it up, how does Frodo fit the hero's journey and how was Sam a hero? Thank you!

[IronParrot]

Well... for Frodo, you can say how he starts out uninvolved, then as he gradually gets more involved in the bigger picture, shall we say, evil and darkness tempt and corrupt him increasingly (in the form of the Ring), leading up to a final climax where he must make a choice between succumbing to darkness or resisting it in favor of the quest he was assigned to perform.

As for Sam... I guess his loyalty to Frodo would be a good place to start.

[bmilder]

Wow, a school made you read LotR over the summer? Amazing :) . What grade are you in?

[Elyse610]

I'm going to be a sophomore. I probably would've liked the books better but I couldn't understand them and since it was a school assignment it made it worse. Once I have time I'll probably try to read them again when I'm not all stressed from different things. The reason we're reading them is because we're studying the cycle of the hero's journey.
The Hero's Journey
*Seperation (from the known)*
-The Call
-The Threshold (with guardians, helpers, and mentor)
*Initiation and Transformation*
-The Challenges
-The Abyss
-The Transformation
-The Revelation
-The Atonement
*The Return (to the known world)*
-The Return (with a gift)

[Elyse610]

How sad! I'm the only one posting for my question! I just don't know what happens to Frodo that fits into each one of the steps! It's so confusing and I am so overwhelmed I am on the verge of tears! But thanks to the ones helping me out!

[arynetrek]

you're describing my sophomore year english class very closely, except that we didn't read LotR (but i read it the summer before soph year anyway). by any chance do you live in/around Dallas?

SPOILERS!

Frodo as a hero - personally i think he failed as a hero, because he did succumb to evil in the end (RotK, mt. doom). but then again maybe his part was only to deliver the Ring to mt. doom, & Gollum's to destroy it: "even he may have a part in the end"

Sam - probably the best examles of him as a hero are "shelob's lair" where he has to fight her off; "the choices of master samwise" where sam has to consciously choose to abandon frodo's body & take on the remainder of the Quest alone (& that's really hell for him); all through Return of the King where he (literally in some parts) carries Frodo to mt. doom to finish the job; or the very end where even though all the trouble is over with he still stays faithful to his Master.

of course you can use any of this, email me at arynetrek@yahoo.com if you need help. an i hope you reread LotR, assigning it as homework is a terrible thing to do to any good literature.

you also might be interested in the "tolkien in the classroom" thread - it's around here somewhere

aryne *

[Morkhon]

I'll try to help you out with at least some of the stages. I had to study the Heroes journey in my Myth class the second year of college, I dropped it, but that is because I was taking two classes from the instructor and he was so bad I had to drop one.

*Seperation (from the known)* When Frodo has to leave the Shire, the only place in the world that he knows

-The Call- I'm not to sure here, maybe the Chapter Shadow of the Past

-The Threshold (with guardians, helpers, and mentor)-when Sam, Merry, and Pippin join him, and eventually Strider and the rest of the Fellowship

*Initiation and Transformation* not sure

-The Challenges-maybe, the Black Rider, the Death of Gandalf, Boromir's Betrayal, the Black Marshes, and the journey through Mordor just to name a few

-The Abyss-I'm not ever sure what this is supposed to be, I don't remember this stage from my class.

-The Transformation-Frodo's personality change from the simple Hobbit at the beginning to the person he is at the end, similar to Bilbo's change during The Hobbit.

-The Revelation-maybe when he put on the ring at the end?

-The Atonement- not sure

*The Return (to the known world)*-when he returns to consienceness after the Ring is destroyed, or maybe returning to the shire after the scouring is completed

-The Return (with a gift)-the only gift I can think he got was being allowed to go to Valinor

[dunedain lady]

I don't know the exact definitions of all these terms, so I'm just going by what they sound like. :)

Separation: When Frodo leaves the Shire and everything he knows

The Call: Maybe this happens twice. The first time, when Gandalf tells him that a Ringbearer is needed, and he accepts the task, then it is reinforced at the Council of Elrond

The Threshold: when the Fellowship is formed and the entire back story is told

Initiation and Transformation: hmmm...maybe at the Council he fully takes on the task of Ringbearer, then when Bilbo gives him his weapons and the mithril coat, he sort of symbolically becomes a warrior.

Challenges: Black Riders, Marshes, Smeágol, Mordor, Boromir, various orcs and other nasties, Shelob, the last battle with Gollum at Mount Doom, the Scouring of the Shire, hunger, thirst, other lacks of physical needs

The Abyss: Dunno what that's supposed to mean, maybe in Mordor, in the Tower, when he thinks he has lost everything, including the Ring

The Transformation: what Morkhon said

The Revelation: Maybe when he learns that Aragorn is the true King.

The Atonement: The Scouring of the Shire?

The Return: Scouring of the Shire; he must return home again, and wipe out the evil that has set in while he was gone; he must win back his peaceful homeland.

The Return (with a gift): Not sure for Frodo, but SAM brings back the mallorn seed he was given by Galadriel, which he uses to rejuvinate Hobbiton.

That's all for Frodo, but for Sam, I can think of some more stuff. I'm going on what I learned about heroes when we read the Odyssey. I'll do both Sam+Frodo for the characteristics of a hero we were told.
Frodo: of noble birth (sorta; he is Bilbo's heir); possesses great strength of will, he survives the knife and bears the Ring; courageous; honorable; rises from a simple hobbit to a true hero; possesses the Ring, which could be seen as his one major fault
Sam: intensely loyal to Frodo; tames Smeágol, showing strength and courage; caring; overcomes the pull of the Ring; almost carries Frodo up Mount Doom; loves his home, and is enraged when he sees the scene in the Mirror of Galadriel; goes home and marries his girlfriend

That's all I can think of. Good luck on your project!

[Eruve]

Here's my take:
*Separation (from the known)*
-The Call: I'd say it was when Gandalf presented the problem in Chapt. 2 and frodo agreed to bear the Ring "for awhile" at least. The Call is then re-affirmed at the Council of Elrond where Frodo agrees to take the Ring all the way to the Cracks of Doom.

-The Threshold (with guardians, helpers, and mentor): The guardians I would say are Gandalf and Sam, the helpers Merry and Pippin and the rest of the Fellowship, the mentor, Aragorn, perhaps Gandalf as well.
*Initiation and Transformation*
-The Challenges: there are many challenges beginning with the Old Forest, the Barrow, Weathertop, the confrontation at the Ford of Bruinen, later at Caradhras, Moria, The Breaking of the Fellowship, Shelob,...
-The Abyss
-The Transformation
-The Revelation
-The Atonement
*The Return (to the known world)*
-The Return (with a gift)

I'm not sure I know what's entailed in some of these others. How is the "Abyss" defined for example? Also the "transformation" and "revelation" stages? I know there was a book written on the Hero's Journey, but I haven't read it. In any case, think of how all the stages of the journey are defined, and then try to think of events from the story that fit the stages.

[Gilthalion]

(The old hobbit clucks his teeth disapprovingly, but cannot endure a cry for distress...)

The Hero's Journey
*Seperation (from the known)*
-The Call
-The Threshold (with guardians, helpers, and mentor)
*Initiation and Transformation*
-The Challenges
-The Abyss
-The Transformation
-The Revelation
-The Atonement
*The Return (to the known world)*
-The Return (with a gift)

I personally always thought it was the Hobbits together that should be considered the Hero. But let's take Sam, since this is your assignment, and not mine. (Thankfully! Now remember, these are my own interpretations and may be held as incorrect by many. Next time, young lady, start earlier and work harder! ;) )

Does this really have to be in order?

EDIT AFTER THE POST:
WAIT, I JUST REALIZED YOU'RE DOING THIS FOR FRODO NOT SAM! WELL, THIS MAY HELP WITH YOUR CHART! A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SAM IS THE REAL HERO, ANYWAY! I JUST SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THIS AND ANSWERED THE WRONG QUESTION!


The Hero's Journey
*Separation (from the known)*
For Sam, this would be his journey from a young hobbit who loved stories of Elves and magic, into a conspirator, spying out a living story great as any he had heard. This separation of Sam from the rest of the Hobbits of the Shire, for example the ones who laughed at/with him in Green Dragon, is not revealed in full until later in the story.

FOR FRODO, THIS WOULD BE HIS GRADUAL CHANGE FROM CONTENTMENT WITH THE SHIRE TO HIS DESIRE TO PRESERVE IT FOR OTHERS EVEN IF HE LOSES IT HIMSELF.


The Call
The call is answered by Sam, standing before Gandalf, caught in the act of eavesdropping on perhaps the most important conversation the wizard has ever held in the Shire. He knows that Frodo must go and so he answers the call out of loyalty and friendship. He never turns back.

THIS CALL IS ISSUED BY GANDALF, WHEN HE TELLS FRODO THE HISTORY OF THE RING AND HIS ROLE IN IT.


-The Threshold (with guardians, helpers, and mentor)
*Initiation and Transformation*
This, I think, is the flight to Rivendell. Sam first begins to cross this threshold of initiation and transformation when the hobbits encounter Galdor and his Elves in the Shire itself. Later, Farmer Maggot counsels them with news and his shrewd guesss and helps get them safely to the ferry. Tom Bombadil is a tremendous help, bringing them out of the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs.

DITTO FRODO.


-The Challenges
Sam's challenge is to stick to the job and see that it gets done. He must choose to stay with his master, daring to eavesdrop yet again on Elvish councils, losing Bill the pony at Moria, staying with Frodo when he has seen his Gaffer made homeless, abandoning the Company with Frodo, taking up the Quest himself when he thought Frodo dead, and through sheer indomitable will dragging himself and Frodo to Mount Doom. He also in the end must meet the challenge of Pity for Gollum.

FRODO MUST RESIST THE EVIL OF RING AT EVERY STAGE. EVEN WHEN HE PUTS ON THE RING AT WEATHERTOP, HE STILL RESISTS ITS EVIL AND CHOOSES TO FIGHT. AFTERWARDS, HE MUST HOLD ON AND BRING THE RING TO RIVENDELL, THOUGH HE IS FADING INTO THE SHADOW WORLD.


-The Abyss
This yawns before Sam when he places The Ring on his finger. He must not fall into the delusion that he can become Samwise, Hero of the Age, and claim The One Ring for his own purposes, for though they may start well, they would turn to selfishness and evil. This is foreshadowed by Sam's decision at Galadriel's Mirror.

(You can listen to an excerpt from THE MIRROR OF GALADRIEL on my website at www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000/gilthalion.html (http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000/gilthalion.html))

AT GALADRIEL'S MIRROR, FRODO SEES FOR THE FIRST TIME THE BLACK PIT OF EVIL THAT IS THE SOUL OF SAURON AND HE MUST NOT FALL INTO IT. IT IS GALADRIEL WHO PULLS HIM BACK, FORESHADOWING THAT IT WAS TOO POWERFUL FOR HIM ALONE.


-The Transformation
It is Sam's defense of Frodo against Shelob that begins his transformation from stout friend and helper of his master, to Hero in his own right. He takes up the challenge of the Quest when he thinks Frodo dead. He rescues Frodo from the Orcs. It is his determination that takes them to Mt. Doom.

IT SEEMS TO BE THE DEATH OF GANDALF AND THE TIME IN LOTHLORIEN THAT TRANSFORM FRODO. HE LEARNS THE EXTENT OF WHAT THEY ARE UP AGAINST, AND THE CONSEQUENCES TO THE ELVES WHETHER HE SUCEEDS OR FAILS.


-The Revelation
I would hazard a guess that the great revelation to Sam is Pity. The pity he finally feels and understands for Gollum. This is pity for those who have fallen into evil. In the final analysis, pity is why Gandalf came to help Middle-earth. Pity for everyone who would fall under the Shadow, if anyone were to take the Ring. Pity, as much as anything, is the reason for the Quest. If the Ringbearer, and those tempted, such as Galadriel, Gandalf, and Aragorn, did not pity the fate of those they would rule more than they desired the power to rule, then there would have been a Dark Lord one way or another.

FOR FRODO, THE REVELATION COMES WITH THE FALL OF BOROMIR TO THE TEMPTATION OF THE RING. HE REALIZES THAT THIS QUEST IS A DANGER TO OTHERS AND HE CAN PROTECT THE OTHERS BEST BY TAKING THE ENTIRE QUEST ON HIMSELF.


-The Atonement
*The Return (to the known world)*
For all his talk of killing Gollum, Sam releases him at the last. If he had not felt Pity, and atoned for his lack of it, by not only sparing Gollum, but by also releasing him, the entire Quest might have failed. For it was Gollum who was able to do what Sam could never have done, taking the Ring by force from Frodo at the last, when Frodo succumbed to the Ring's power on Mt. Doom.

IT IS PRIDE, PERHAPS TWISTED BY THE RING, THAT LEADS FRODO TO BELIEVE THAT HE ALONE MUST PERFORM THE QUEST. BUT EVEN SO, HE FINDS THAT HE MUST RELY ON SAM FOR THE FINAL STAGE OF THE JOURNEY. IN THE END, HE LOSES A FINGER TO GOLLUM, FOR HE CANNOT EXERT HIS BROKEN WILL AGAINST THE RING AT THE HEART OF ITS POWER AT THE CRACKS OF DOOM. HE HAS LOST MORE THAN A FINGER. THIS SYMBOLIZES THAT HE IS NO LONGER WHOLE AND A PART OF HIM HAS BEEN SACRIFICED FOR THE GOOD OF ALL.


-The Return (with a gift)
Sam returns to the Shire with the magic dust of Galadriel's gardens and the seed of the Mallorn tree. He finds his beloved home, transformed as he feared. He labors long to share his gift with the entire Shire, and so the land is restored, and is better than restored, from the touch of the Shadow that it felt. He, and the Shire he loves, live happily ever after.

THE GIFT THAT FRODO RETURNS HOME WITH IS PEACE AND CONTENTMENT FOR THE HOBBITS OF THE SHIRE. BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF. HE TEACHES THEM RESTRAINT AND PITY AND HAS SAVED THEM FROM POWER AND GREED. BUT HE HAS GIVEN HIMSELF TO DO IT.


(And with that, the little hobbit began lecturing and scolding the young lady for not applying herself more diligently to her studies! :mad: Why, back in his day you would get this kind of assignment as a pop quiz! He reminices about how he had to walk to school barefoot in the snow. On icy hills he had to wrap barbed wire around his furry feet just to get traction! Back then they had discipline!)

[Shanamir Duntak]

Wow Gil, you were on fire!

[RovingTurtle]

Hi all first time on the boards id comliment u and such but im sure u gey enough of that anyway... If Frodo is a failure as a hero (as some have said) wouldnt the transformation go from being the hobbit with little confidence yet conviction to his cause that keeps him going to the hobbit possesed by the power of the ring, being corrupted nearly totally by it (maybe not being fully corrupted was victory enough...) that he cant even destroy it of his own will.

[anduin]

Hullo Roving Turtle! Welcome to Entmoot. Nice to meet you and enjoy your stay. :D

[Shanamir Duntak]

Welcome RovingTurtle!
Damn Anduin beat me!

[RovingTurtle]

Wow you guys are quick, /me feels wanted :)

[arynetrek]

from RovingTurtle...
"If Frodo is a failure as a hero (as some have said) wouldnt the transformation go from being the hobbit with little confidence yet conviction to his cause that keeps him going to the hobbit possesed by the power of the ring, being corrupted nearly totally by it (maybe not being fully corrupted was victory enough...) that he cant even destroy it of his own will. "

this is my opinion -

he didn't destroy the Ring of his own free will - Gollum tore it off him & Gollum's greed destroyed him. and after the Shelob/Mordor/Mt. Doom incident, Frodo remained sickly & weary until he left Middle-Earth.

i'm beginning to think that Frodo's quest wasn't to destroy the Ring, but only to deliver it to Mt. Doom - as someone in the board pointed out, poor Frodo was shocked when Gandalf threw the Ring into the fire in "Shadow of the Past" & that was before he'd been severely exposed to it. so i think the Ring (that chooses its own keepers, remember) stayed with Frodo because he couldn't get rid of it. in the destroying of the Ring, he did fail, & when he finally tried to grab its power he not only managed to scare Sauron himself, but give Gollum the agitation & threat (?) needed for Gollum to strike out at him, grab his Precious, & fall into the Crack. but in the delivering, he succeeded (with much of Sam's help, of course)

Frodo paid for his grab for power - his exposure to teh Ring had worn him much more than it did Bilbo, & although he returned to the Shire, both he & the land had changed irreparably - neither were as isolated as they once were. but Frodo got a great reward for his success (or part in a greater success): he went to Valinor (a great reward if there ever was one)

Elyse - sorry i didn't answer the email, i just got it about 10 minutes ago. but the people here have written stuff that's probably better than i could, so maybe that helps. & i hope you reread LotR when it's not a homework assignment - it's too good a book to be ruined.

aryne *

[Darth Tater]

Dunno if you care any more, but I wrote a report last year comparing and contrasting LOTR and SW. I don't have it on this comp, only on a comp that's no longer linked to the net, but I sent it to a few Entmooters who may still have it, or I can probably dig up a copy somewhere. Anyways, it consentrated on the allegorical and mythological aspects of LOTR and SW, as well as the role of the hero in both. Let me know if you're intersted in reading it and I'll try to find a copy.

[Shanamir Duntak]

Send it to me please!

[Darth Tater]

Hrrmm (my wise old ent sound). Dunno where I have an udated copy, Noldo had one and if worse comes to worst I can just scan in the one I turned in. My teacher wrote all over it, but mostly nice stuff :)

[WHITEWIZZARD]

ONE THINGS FOR SURE FRODO WAS ONE BRAVE HOBBIT! FIRST OF ALL HE WAS A HERO JUST FOR GOING ON THE JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE KNEW WHAT HE HAD TO DO AND HE DID IT, LIKE A REAL HERO. EVEN AS THE WEIGHT CAME POUNDING DOWN ON HIM THE CLOSER HE GOT TO SAURONS TOWER HE NEVER GAVE UP. BUT OVERALL I THINK SAM WAS THE BIGGEST HERO. MAINLY BECAUSE WHEN FRODO WAS PARALYZED BY SHELOB SAM RESCUED HIM. SAM ALSO PLAYED A BIG PART IN THE SCOURING OF THE SHIRE. HE ALSO DID ANYTHING TO SERVE HIS MASTER.