Orc Breeds.

[Roland]

Here's all the Orc breeds (or perhaps some of them are actually tribes,it's not always easy to tell) I can think of, apart from the unnamed "smaller breeds" mentioned in chapter two of book six.

Uruk-hai. Also called Uruks and black orcs.

Orcs of the Mountains. Also called Northerners.

Orcs of Mordor. Also called Orcs of The Eye.

Morgul Orcs. I don't think these guys were much different to the Orcs of Mordor, although they did have better gear.

Trackers.

Can anyone think of any others? One of the things I like most about LoTR is the way Tolkien characterised the Orcs. They are both amusing and brutal at the same time.

[Eruve]

I don't think the Morgul Orcs and the Mordor Orcs were different breeds. They were just stationed in different places.

[Shanamir Duntak]

That's exactly what he said Eruve! (Read more carefully! :D )

[Xivigg]

0] tut tut tut unless you go search in book not written by Tolkien i don't think you'll find that much breed of orcs

[Finduilas]

There are obviously more than 2 or 3 breeds of orcs in JRRT. There is a reference to this in the RK.
"They were a gang of the smaller breeds being driven unwilling to their Dark Lord's wars; all they cared for was to get the march over and escape the whip." RK page 208

[Xivigg]

0] Yep but their is no particular name
if you want name you have to look in other book not written by Tolkien
that's what i mean

[Roland]

There would be many unnamed breeds and tribes of orcs.
I was only listing the ones that I could find named in the books.
There's also Saruman's half orcs, although I'm not sure if they really count.

[Fat middle]

what about Hobgoblins? they're mentined in The Hobbit.

[Celeborn]

you forgot Olog-hai
can't remember where they from, but they're there

[Eruve]

Olog-hai are trolls.

[Celeborn]

so they are.......

[Grand Admiral Reese]

The Goblins of the Misty Mountains are the small Orcs.

And Olog Hai are definatly trolls. Trolls that can go out in sunlight, no less.

I belive there was a reference to hobgoblins in The Hobbit. If they're of Orc-kind, they'd probably count as another breed(assuming they're not the Northerners).

[Shanamir Duntak]

I'd guess that whoever refered to them as Hobgoblins did because he didnt really know to call them orcs... And orc are a kind of hobgoblins...

[SarahStar]

I seem to recall Tolkien using both goblin and hobgoblin instead of orc in The Hobbit. (Although the word "orc" does show up once or twice if I remember properly.) The distinction---if one is truly meant to be made---is very uncertain.

Hmm...it would be interesting to know if this confusion made it into any of the translations. (Doesn't the word "gnome" pop up a few times in The Hobbit, as well? Or am I thinking of something else?)

[bmilder]

If you read the preface to the Hobbit you'll see the explanation about Goblin and Hobgoblin.

In the original version of TH, "Gnome" was used, but I believe it was changed to "Elves" in the later edition after LotR. Tolkien said that he originally called the Noldor "Gnomes" but changed the name to avoid confusion with actual gnomes.

[Shanamir Duntak]

Good idea.... Gnomes are somehow.... ridiculous!

[SarahStar]

Preface? To The Hobbit?!? Where? What version?

My copy is supposed to be the revised edition! And you tell me I'm missing something? That's not fair. ::sullks::

Hey...maybe that means mine is almost antique. :lol:

[Roland]

I found the reference Bmilder was talking about. Here's the quote:
"Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)."
That, as Bmilder said is from Tolkien's preface to The Hobbit. Thanks Bmilder, I'd completely forgotten about that reference. :)
Perhaps hobgoblins are actually the Uruk-hai?

[SarahStar]

I know I've read that but it doesn't seem to be in my version. :p

[WHITEWIZZARD]

DUDE! ALL THE ONES YOU JUST NAMED WERE TRIBES NOT BREEDS. EXEPT FOR THE MOUNTAIN ORCS.

[Roland]

Perhaps the orcs originating from Mordor (those that Sauron didn't recruit from other parts of Middle Earth) would be better described as a tribe, although I beleive places like Mordor and the Misty Mountains would have been the home of many different orc tribes.
However,the Uruk-hai and the Trackers are definetly different breeds, having unique characteristics not seen in most orcs.
I think that in the case of Mordor and the mountains the particular circumstances of those regions have shaped different breeds. The mountain orcs were, for a long time free of Sauron and able to raid and pillage as they pleased.
The orcs originating from Mordor, which were a bit tougher than their mountain cousins (Grishnakh and the other Mordor orcs were able to keep pace with the Uruks) would have almost always been enslaved and had to worry about the Ring Wraiths and other such dangers of living in Sauron's home. This, in my opinion, would have made for a harder, more warlike life and thus a breed tougher than the orcs of the mountains.

[Celeborn]

I'll look this up but I think that the orcs were made for specific purposes. The example of trakers and uruk-hai is a good example.

also, orcs originated from mordor (Angband more accurately) as they were made by Sauron's master. I believe it says this in the Silmarilliuon but I'll check.
Bye for now
~celeborn

[Roland]

It is widely believed that Melkor bred the orcs in the pits of Utumno (early in the First Age) by corrupting elves that he had captured. These unfortunate creatures had their forms twisted into what we now recognise as orcs. Tolkien says this of orc tribes:
"and many indeed of the older tribes, such as those that still lingered in the North and in the Misty Mountains,"
-from Appendix F of LotR
This suggests that the orcs first made their homes to the north rather than in Mordor and this explains why the Mordor orcs would be a younger breed. Orcs probably didn't appear in Mordor until Sauron settled there in about SA 1000.
Sauron probably did breed the Uruks and Trackers for specific purposes, but I doubt that all breeds developed in this way. Perhaps Sauron was able to breed the orcs of Mordor to be tougher than the more typical orcs of the North, although I think it far more likely that he exposed them to hardships and relentless drilling by the Uruks to acheive this. Of course we'll never know for sure. :)

[SarahStar]

That makes sense, since Angband was in the north! (And so was Utumno.) Melkor's original orcs would most likely have been bred for the northern climate.

[Michael Martinez]

Tolkien specifically names only one "breed" of Orcs: the Uruks, which were bred in Mordor in the late Third Age and were used to colonize and control other areas, including the Misty Mountains.

[Roland]

Tolkien also mentions "smaller breeds" in chapter two of book six, and it's not unreasonable to assume that the Northerners described in chapter three of book three also fall into this category.
Beyond that though no other breeds are specifically named as such. However this doesn't mean that there weren't many other breeds of orcs in Middle Earth. The fact that there is more than one smaller breed of orcs supports this. Also, the way Grishnakh's Mordor orcs are described in book three chapter three certainly suggests that they are something different to the Northerners and the Uruks.