FanFiction . . .

[Laurelyn]

How do all you guys feel about FanFic? Especially Lord of the Rings fanfic? I'm just curious to see whether people like it, think it's sacrilige, or what. Any strong opinions out there?

Oh, Administrators? If this is in the wrong forum, I'm sorry. I wasn't quite sure where to put it.

[Radagast]

Thats blashempy! Heretic! Burn, burn! ;)

No, I am totally against it! When it comes right down to it, Professor Tolkien was a genius. I don't think anyone else could write a FanFic that does Middle Earth justice.
And if you allow people to, you will get some really, really awful ones and that, for me at least, would be painful to see Middle Earth defiled.
Oh no, I've ranted again...just saying how I feel...
*whispers for firewood and gestures to an open clearing*
:rolleyes:

[Laurelyn]

Yeah, that is pretty much my opinion of the subject as well. About none of it can do Middle-earth justice anyway. Occasionally I will stumble upon someone who can A) Write ok, and B) write something that doesn't interfere with anything and doesn't turn the characters into out-of-character freaks . . . But that happens about as often as I find Gollum stealing my glasses to go look for his precious. And I still don't like those much. No, my precious, not at all, we don't like them, precioussss . . .

[Laurelyn]

Oh and yes, Radagast, Professor Tolkien was indeed a genius.

[FrodoFriend]

I like the idea of fanfiction. True, most fanfics really suck, but there are a few good ones out there.

[Radagast]

I don't recall ever reading a fanfic thats worth the paper its printed on (or virtual paper)
And when we are talking about a work of genius, like Middle Earh NO Fanfic could ever come close to it! I stand by my point!
Don;t forget we are talking about The fanasty novel here!

[Laurelyn]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
I like the idea of fanfiction. True, most fanfics really suck, but there are a few good ones out there.

The key words in there to me are "A few good ones"
When I find good ones, then they are classified as "good ones."
But all the fics where Legolas falls in love with Gimli . . . Those are just total, total, defiling of a sacred subject. I will admit that I browse FanFiction.net in search of good ones, but I haven't yet found much worth my time.
Shortened version of my opinion: Fanfics suck unless they are well written, keep in character and don't disturb the plot. All others are sacrilege.

[Radagast]

Exactly, Laurelyn!
*calls off the burning* ;)
Oh and by the way I've changed my signature...do you like it? Think I should find another?

[Wayfarer]

A heretic! A dissident! Get her! Grab Her! Lock her up! beat her soundly with rubber chickens!

[FrodoFriend]

Actually, in all my searching I have only found one good serious fanfic. One. That's pretty sad. I posted the link on "What Would You Do", but here it is again:

Time Will Tell (http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=450376)

Admittedly, all other serious fanfics I've read are not worth the effort. Romantic fanfics are painful, and the one slash fanfic I read before I knew what it was sent me weeping and screaming away from the website.

However, parodies and humorous fics are cool. And I stand by that!

[Ñólendil]

The only good fan-fiction I've read is that by Robert Gardner (Gilthalion on the Moot). I'm not against fan-fiction at all.

No offense, but usually laugh when I hear people call it blasphemy. I just looked up 'blasphemy' in the Online Merriam-Webster's Dictionary and got this: Main Entry: blas·phe·my
Pronunciation: 'blas-f&-mE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
Date: 13th century
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

I hope when you say it you mean it in the second sense. But even so, I don't see how the Lord of the Rings is inviolable or sacred. It can only be sacred when you use 'sacred' as a synonym for 'inviolable', but what then do you mean by blasphemy? If it's truly inviolable, you can't very well be mad at someone for violating it, or if you think they're merely trying to violate it, why worry when the book is inviolable? But when you say someone is being irreverent you mean they lack the honor and respect you think they should have. But you can't know how much honor or respect they have for something by looking at fan-fiction. It all depends on intention. If the fan-fiction was meant to completely 'bash' and put down the book, yeah, they're irreverent. But if it's just fan-fiction it's just fan-fiction.

Inaccuracy or bad writing skills do not = irreverence. Usually writing a story in someone else's world require one be interested enough in that world to want to write a story about it. Tolkien wanted others to expand upon his world, read some of his letters. It can't be blasphemy if the person in question actually likes the world (modified by his or her own vision) he or she has dared to set foot in.

So I'm pro-fan-fiction, I don't see what's wrong with it.

[FrodoFriend]

Yay! Some one likes fanfiction! See, I sort of write fanfic sometimes, so I was getting a little worried. :)

I don't think fanfiction is blasphemous at all. It doesn't change the book. It is often crappy writing and plot-less, though.

[Menelvagor]

I like fan fiction as long as it doesn't try to change any of the main points or character relationships within the story. I think the best fanfiction is the type done in the style of elaborating on minor characters/events, or portraying things from a different oint of veiw. What I don't like is when, and this happens far to often, people try to change what is already written.

(and don't feel alone FrodoFriend, I write some fanfiction too:) )

[FrodoFriend]

Yeah, I kinda like minor charactes/fill in the blanks too. Or just making up entirely new characters (but no one wants to read those). I like stories that take place before or after the book.

What I can't stand is those frickin' Mary Sues!!! And if I see the words 'Legolas romance fic' one more time I swear I'll scream! (AI! AI!)

[Rána Eressëa]

Ehh...fanfiction. I've always preferred the word fiction.

Well, it depends. Most of the stuff written is just either Mary-Sue's or Slash, and I "hate" (maybe too strong a word, perhaps?) both. Sometimes, however, there comes a person who keeps their originality while still clinging onto the pure-Tolkien feeling. I mean, I've got a little tale I'm writing that interferes with the Fellowship at Emyn Muil, but I don't go and screw over the original characters (or at least I try not to) and I think I'm doing pretty damn good. At least it isn't a romance, thank Eru. It involves a renegade female, but she only befriends one of them. Personally, romances make me cringe. So it's drama/action. Drama beause there's a lot of talking and bickering. Action because of an Orc attack and lots of fighting.

So, you're looking at a fanfiction writer basically, though I tend to frown upon most out there because it's just "pointless" and truly has no meaning. Other than that, there is some I like.

[athelas]

I do read fanfiction sometimes, and they are often crappy and plotless, but there are some good ones out there. I personally don't like slash, and am also getting very sick of Legolas romances, slash or not. (What is so interesting about Legolas and Aragorn slash? I keep seeing those. *pukes*)
And the crazy Orlando Bloom fans keep writing fics about him.:rolleyes:

Mary Sues: Burn them at the stake!!! Burn them all!!!:mad:

[Laurelyn]

DOWN WITH LEGOLAS ROMANCES!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, actually, they're just really repetitive, really pointless and rather out of character. Hence . . . DOWN W/ LEGOLAS ROMANCES!!!! *waves baseball bat over head*

Originally posted by Rogue Elf
Well, it depends. Most of the stuff written is just either Mary-Sue's or Slash, and I "hate" (maybe too strong a word, perhaps?) both.

This is a really good phrase for me. If you guys have noticed from reading my other posts on this thread, I'm sort of agreeing w/ whoever last posted, and changing my opinion around a little. This is not just so I can sound like I agree w/ everybody- it's just that I both hate Fanfic and like it at the same time.

Some parodies are ok, I'll give them that. Some are even funny.

Some romances, even, are ok. Most are awful, though.

See, some of you guys have made clear to me a point that seems sort of important- I guess I shouldn't judge others by their writing skills alone. Although, if it's fanfic, that's all you have to go on. Rarely have I come across a fanfic writer who really does possess some writing skill, and even more rare is it that I find someone who uses it.

I have tried to appreciate the people who can't write well anyway, and not inform them that their fics are awful. But if they're deliberately screwing everything- the plot, the characters, whatever- up, with little respect to Tolkien, then I gotta say I do get rather mad.

And I'll admit I could be thought of as one of these people. I've joined the bandwagon ~ I write some fanfic, although it usually doesn't go any further than the margins of my papers. I try and elaborate upon minor characters too, and NOT MESS UP THE BOOKS!! unless that is somehow the point of the fic. I've actually,once, believe it or not, read a fic that is actually good (ok) but the whole plot is that the storyline gets messed with. What keeps it likable is that it's not OOC.

But some fanfic . . . *shudders* especially Mary Sues . . . *Shivers* is just awful. And that's the stuff I hate. I guess I don't have a fixed view one way or the other here - I can like it, some, and still loathe the rest.

Originally posted by Menelvagor
I like fan fiction as long as it doesn't try to change any of the main points or character relationships within the story. I think the best fanfiction is the type done in the style of elaborating on minor characters/events, or portraying things from a different oint of veiw. What I don't like is when, and this happens far to often, people try to change what is already written.

[Menelvagor]

Exactly, Laurelyn. :)

[Radagast]

Come good Mooters! Let us clap these blasphemers in irons for daring to support fanfiction of the Master's work!
Like I have said! Lord of the Rings is the fantasy novel! No one could even attempt to do Middle-Earth justice as I have said. I mean in some of them Legolas and Gimli fall in love!? The Witch King waits for Gandalf to get up, summon Aragorn with magic, help him up before riding off! I mean, COME ON!
Firewood!

[Menelvagor]

No one is challenging LotR, Radagast. And yes, some fanfiction is just plain stupid, but you don't have to read it if you don't like it.

[Laurelyn]

Radagast, some people consider fanfiction praise of the original author.
I mean in some of them Legolas and Gimli fall in love!? The Witch King waits for Gandalf to get up, summon Aragorn with magic, help him up before riding off! I mean, COME ON!
Yes, you have a point there, but I have learned something since i posted this thread.
They're not all like that.
However, if you indeed find it nessecary, bring out the firewood. I'm not trying to yell at you to convince you otherwise from your opinion. Although, I must say, mine has changed a good deal. Anyway, I could do with a good burning. . . Bring on that firewood.

"Oh light the sky and hold on tight, the world is burning down . . ." Shawn Colvin, Sunny came home.

Numela menialete rya iole, ceari menialete rya beleoral.

[Laurelyn]

Sorry about double-posting that . . . I'm currently experiencing major technical difficulties and it won't let me edit my post right now. I will edit it as soon as my computer lets me, though.

[Starr Polish]

Okay, I'm going to look like a complete idiot...
What's a Mary-Sue? I have an idea, but...::crawls back into her hole::

Eh, I've never really ventured onto fan sites until I found discovered I liked Tolkien, and have never really been a fan of...slash...::shudder::

I write. I may try my hand at fanfic, but I've never done it, so I'm afraid it be horrible.

[Ñólendil]

Come good Mooters! Let us clap these blasphemers in irons for daring to support fanfiction of the Master's work!

*whacks Radagast over the head with a large stick* Iron that, old man.

[JenniferTook]

I love Fanfiction! I haven't read much Lotr stuff, but I think if you go into it knowing that it isn't going to be anywhere as good as Tolkien, then I think it can be fun. There are A LOT of good Harry Potter fanfic writers and some really excellent stories. I mean, Tolkien is it, complete and total, but I think there could be some interesting "missing scene" fics. All in good fun, you know.

Jennifer

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Okay, I'm going to look like a complete idiot...
What's a Mary-Sue? I have an idea, but...::crawls back into her hole::

Eh, I've never really ventured onto fan sites until I found discovered I liked Tolkien, and have never really been a fan of...slash...::shudder::

I write. I may try my hand at fanfic, but I've never done it, so I'm afraid it be horrible.

A Mary Sue is a particular type of fanfic character. She is usually a girl from our world, beautiful, w/ some sort of magical power, who meets up w/ the Fellowship somewhere and does cool magical stuff. All the guys fall in love with her (notably Legolas) and she bring and aura of cheeziness with her wherever she goes. DIE ALL MARY SUES!!

Speaking of fanfiction, I'm posting my first one on Fanfiction.net today! When it's done I think I'll submit it to Tolkien Trail too. For once I think I've come up with something totally original - at least, I haven't seen a single other fanfic with this idea. It's a story about Tolkien himself and how he found the Red Book of Westmarch when he was a young guy. :) Sound stupid?

[Starr Polish]

That is a good idea, FF! Hah...aw man, I suck ;)

[Laurelyn]

Interesting idea, FrodoFriend. I'm betting that that has not yet been done on FanFiction.net . . .
What's it called? Your story, that is . . . The title . . . Oh baloney, I'm too tired to be posting right now, don't mind me.
*Follows Starr Polish's example and crawls back into her hole, lies down, and starts snoring loudly*

[Rána Eressëa]

Radagast just lacks in "appreciation" of the finer "compliments" certain authors write as "rewards" towards the original author from inspiring such a vivid world that many wish to dwell within and slightly recreate in order to toss in a few more characters (or maybe just one) that have never been previously mentioned as part of "the big picture". It gives certain "fanfiction" authors, such as myself, a feeling as though they've become a part of the epic world. That's all it is. Well...some of the time, at least. Please tell me this makes good sense.

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by Laurelyn
Interesting idea, FrodoFriend. I'm betting that that has not yet been done on FanFiction.net . . .
What's it called? Your story, that is . . . The title . . . Oh baloney, I'm too tired to be posting right now, don't mind me.
*Follows Starr Polish's example and crawls back into her hole, lies down, and starts snoring loudly*

It's called "Post-Modern Periannath."

I don't think it's going to be very popular, especially on Fanfiction.net, where half the people have not even read LotR and don't know what a periannath means. Oh well. At least it's not cheezy, or so I hope . . .

[Rána Eressëa]

Sounds cool to me :)

[sepulchrave]

i thought the same way as radagast, but then I encountered these....not too bad really:

http://www.fingolfin.com/FanFiction/Arien.htm
http://www.fingolfin.com/FanFiction/Darkness.htm
http://www.fingolfin.com/FanFiction/Perceptions.htm

but yes, some of the attempts are embarassingly bad....

[Nonesuch]

I agree that Fanfic is a form of flattery. I also agree that most Fanfic is not worth the time spent reading it. The rare exceptions can be very good, however.

I know of two Fanfic serials which I consider to be far above most others I have come across. These are a serial called "The Hobbits" and a series of related short stories called "Tales From Tol Eressea". Both can be found here, amidst other worthy and, unfortunately, less worthy efforts. http://www.barrowdowns.com/FanFic.asp?Size=

[Lelondul]

This is a very interesting topic to me as I've done a fair bit of Middle-earth based writing myself. First, what do you all actually classify as fanfiction? I get the idea that many of you mean taking the exact story of LotR and fitting in other characters that interact with the fellowship directly. Or do you mean writing in Tolkien's style - or simply using Middle-earth as a backdrop to an original tale? All of the above?
Funny, I actually do, take the first example as sacrilege, though I find my own writing (which always been in a 4th age context and in free-form RGP forums like the one here), to be little more than an honest tribute to the one who created such a vibrant world (and as a personal creative outlet). P'raps this is hipocritical?

While my original characters do journey to well-known locales in Middle-earth, and refer to the names of notable characters in Middle-earth's history, the people I wrote and write with (where are you Wayfarer? Scar?) conciously avoid when at all possible, including a character who had a speaking part in any of Tolkein's work. This is why only the 4th Age holds any writing interest to me - there are hints on what Tolkien thought of this age, but very little concrete, and most of the charaters of LotR had passed on.

We had a certain person who joined our group once, who not only 'played' a Tolkien character, but one of the most well-known and ancient. It bothered us to no end that he first had the gall to do such a thing, and secondly that he wasn't even close to being convincing. This to me, was sacrilege.

I agree, much fanfic (including my own) can be horrible at times, but I think the volume of Middle-earth material is only evidence of the profound imapct Tolkien's work has on the world.

[allsirgarnet]

I've always thought that fanfic was more about the writer wanting to express "something" on the subject matter for themselves,rather than just for other fans to read it.

You could say they identify so much with the subject matter that they feel they MUST get their feelings on it out in some way.You cant always do this in plain discussion like we have here,rather what they have to say must be "in character" for it to mean what they want it to mean.

If you treat fanfic this way,its a tribute to the original writer that his work inspires others so much.

As for fanfic of JRR's work being blasphemy i just dont agree.I;m sure the man himself would feel quite flattered that so many wanted to emulate him and his work.

A question for you.

Would you consider RPG's the same as fanfic?

Because in a way they are rewriting the original works,introducing new characters and so on.

No one critisises them yet they are doing much the same things.

So remember three things.

1....If you dont like it dont read it.

2....Immitation is the sincerest for of flattery.

3....Most fanfic is only "meant" to be read by the writer.

[Laurelyn]

"Would you consider RPG's the same as fanfic?"
I dunno, allsirgarnet.

[FrodoFriend]

Why would fanfic be "sacrilegous"? It's not like it interferes with or detracts from the original work.

[Laurelyn]

Some does. To me there's a fine line between acceptable and awful.
Oh, and good beginning on Post-Modern Periannath, FrodoFriend.

[FrodoFriend]

Thanks. :) I'm trying to write it without interfering with LotR in anyway.

[Acacia]

I don't have anything against fanfic.. but some of the ones I've *seen*, poking around FF.N.. ~shudders repeatedly~ I saw a summary involving Legolas, Boromir, and bloodplay. Caused mental pictures I will find it hard to get rid of. And if I see ONE more Aragorn/Legolas fic..

The Mary Sues are even worse. I wanted to kick the author of "Rambling Band". In which the MS has come from 21st-century Earth along with her band and is more or less stringing Boromir along while enjoying herself with Legolas. Everyone quite out of character. And with "movieverse" fics.. I have nothing *against* them, but they mean some of these stories are written by people who've never even *read* the books.

But, where you get Mary Sues, you get anti-Mary Sue parody fics, and those are *fun*. "An Orc's Tale" is quite amusing, with Legolas looking for protection from Sauron in total terror of his own fan following ("I lost count when their numbers exceeded five hundred.") I myself cowrote "Protectors of the Plot Continuum", in which my friend and I enter fanfics and shoot the Mary Sue before she can damage the plot *too* much ("Acacia scowled, but muttered assent, took the cards from her gear and, after Jay had left, played Solitaire until she got bored with it and started using the cards for target practice.") And "Nine Men and a Little Lady" is quite funny, following the diaries of the whole Fellowship and a few peripheral characters in one of the fics where Mary Sue joins the Fellowship. Just because I feel like it, here's my favorite bit, from Legolas' diary:

Gimli's been smirking at me all evening.

That does it. First trailbreak we get, I'm flinging myself into Aragorn's arms. Perhaps THAT will keep her at bay...if she returns. Which she will. Of course she will. *shudder* It never ends.

~coughs~ Sorry if that post was rather long..

Anyway, the one I helped write is at http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=576539 and the others can be found at http://www.subreality.com/marysue/metafic.htm#TOLKIEN if you want. Again, sorry about the length..

[galadriel]

I write fan fiction (as you can see from my signature), but I am very picky about what I write and read. I'm probably not saying anything that hasn't already been said, but these are my opinions:

-Accuracy is a must. Whether I'm writing a canon fic (one that follows Tolkien's universe exactly) or an a/u (in which I introduce a new circumstance, variable, etc which makes the history of M-e come out differently) I make sure that it COMPLETELY agrees with Tolkien's ideas. Even if I'm writing a story in which, say, someone dies who didn't die in "real life", I make sure it's plausible, and that everything that happens after that could plausibly happen. I actually do research. Anyone who isn't willing to do this isn't cut out for writing fan fiction based on such a complex world.

-The LOTR section on fanfiction.net (where I post), once a wonderful site, has become a jungle of bad-fics, although there are still quite a few decent authors there, and some that are wonderful. If you go there, I suggest starting with the oldest fics, since a lot of the new stuff is humor or just plain horrible.

-Mary Sues could potentially be okay if the writers really, really knew what they were doing (and thus they would no longer be Mary Sues), but none of them do.

-I am *so* sick of Legolas fan fiction.

-And slash fics. While everyone is entitled to write and read whatever they want, and I can recognize that a lot of slash is at least well-written, there is simply no way that the characters of LOTR would act in the ways portrayed in these stories. (I'm not homophobic. But that doesn't mean that you can convince me that Tolkien intended Frodo and Sam to be anything but incredibly good and loyal friends! You get my point.)

Okay, off of my soap box. Basically, a lot of fanfiction sucks. But not all of it does! Some of it is really excellent. (I'm not shamelessly self-promoting... although I certainly wouldn't mind it if you read my fanfiction.... :p )

[Hapira_Brandybuck]

I just got started with writing LotR fan fics (I previously and still do write N sync fanfics... but anyay)

I love fanfiction I've got one that could qualify as a Mary Sue I guess where the Fellowship ends up in modern Chicago but the whole thing is based on if Middle Earth was simply a lost history of Earth It's up here on Tolkientrail if y'all wanna read it at least the first chapter I sent the next two though It's called "When Worlds Collide"

it's got a serquel that's the other way around and yes ai do mess with the original story line btu I don't care

if all fan fic was mirror images of the original, how could it even be a fan fic? I like humor, I'm reading this great humor one called "Middle-Earth Online at Fanfiction.net and there's this great Drama/action one called "LotR 2 Return of Sauron" that's really awesome It reminds me of the Mtrix in a way JUimmy Baggins.... hee hee hee

I don't write Legolas romance stories if I can help italthough a friend of mine and I have mixed our two favorite things, N Sync and LotR and created our own version of middle earth and instead of the One Ring, it's the One Celebrity CD (the title of their latest CD) currently, I'm in Arwen's character and she's in Frodo's and I'm friends with benefits with Legolas and she jealous but it's al in humor if y'all saw it, you'd want to throw me into Mount Doom but you can't so nyah!

*slams round purple door with knob in the exact middle shut before the tomatoes start flying*

[Laurelyn]

All right. I'm going to go read some of these links you guys have posted in a minute . . .
After much internal debate, I have decided to post a link to my fanfic . . . Actually, it's not all fanfic, I have some originals here too. But anyways, here goes:
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=150725
Hope you like.

[Twilight]

I think that fan fic can be a good thing if it is done right. I think that it is a bad idea to use main characters in fan fic because you don't want to change the plot or anything. Poetic fan fic is perfectly acceptable for main characters. Poetry deals more with emotions and how they were feeling. Poetry can be done without creating a new situation for the main characters.

Fan fic can also bee good in other parts that aren't written much about. If a person is well read in the origional work and doen't write anything that is inconsistant with the origional, then I would support it. Like some tale within the dwarven kingdoms. That could be done in a way that doesn't contradict any origional working, and it would be a positive adition to the Tolkien universe.

By the way, I like your name Laurelyn. I have two good friends that are named Laura and Lauryn. Your name is a good combination of those two.

[Laurelyn]

Originally posted by Twilight
By the way, I like your name Laurelyn. I have two good friends that are named Laura and Lauryn. Your name is a good combination of those two.
Really? Cool!!!

[Laurelyn]

Oy, FrodoFriend, Time Will Tell got updated!

[FrodoFriend]

I know, I know!! :D :D :D I read it! It's really good, although I wouldn't mind if some kind of action started happening.

[Menelvagor]

I just posted my first fanfic on FF.net! I've writen them before, but never done anything with them. Please read it, fellow mooters, and I want some imput so review too please!
Author name: Elenil

[FrodoFriend]

How many people here read/post on FF.net? I do both - under the name Tanaquil-19.

[Menelvagor]

hm, well I'm number 1 I guess.

BTW, FrodoFriend I'm not sure if I told you how much I like your story. I love the idea and your writing is very descriptive.

:)

[FrodoFriend]

Thanks, Menelvagor! I just read your story, and liked it - it's very pretty and sad. Are you planning on writing more like it?

[emplynx]

I wrote this one for Young Writer's Week at school I submited it to Tolkien Trail, but for now you can check it out at http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=611020

[Laurelyn]

Wow, Menelvagor and emplynx, I really like your fics!
DEATH TO MARY-SUES!

[Nibs]

Quite good stuff, fellows... 'specially Menelvagor... I'll consider having a stab at that sort of thing.

[Menelvagor]

Thanks FrodoFriend, Laurelyn, and Nibs. I was happy with that one. FrodoFriend, I'm not sure if I'll write more like that, it just sort of happens (usually when I'm suppose to be doing something else, like a 1000 page essay due tomorrow or something). Glad you like it. Emplynx, I'm going to read yours right now.

:)

[Tanoliel]

YIKES! I just read your PPC story...it's great! Please write more! I try, as a rule, not to read Mary Sue fics...but if I ever find myself entangled in an evil MS snare, I will report her to you...:)
What about other fics? Are you going to PPC those, too? Like slah ones...not that I'm against homosexuality, but Aragorn marries ARWEN, not Legolas...*shudder*
-tano

[Tanoliel]

I read on FF.net..mostly what my friend reccommends (she spends too much time on there for her own good! :) ). I agree, most of the FF.net LotR has become really awful...but there are a few good ones. I'm getting around to reading all you guys' stuff that you've posted about....yargh. No time....!
-tano

[Nibs]

Yes, quite entertaining, Acacia... extremely creative and funny. My favorite line:
"Frodo was looking at the body with malice in his gentle eyes: Sam was already kicking it."

[Wayfarer]

I love fanfic, as long as it adds to, and does not contradict, what The Professor has written.

Fanfic detailing 'the life of young frodo baggins' = good.
Fanfic involving sexual encounters between frodo and sam = Bad.
Fourth age rp involving new characters = good.
First age writing in which the spirit of tolkien is trampled = bad.
Project to create a working darkspeech lexicon = Good
Gaelic-speaking dark-elves = Bad.

and so on.

[Acacia]

Glad to see you people liked it.

We've got several new chapters up just recently.. four different fics total we have fixed.. also, we're getting to see more of Headquarters. We've just now introduced Sean and Luxury, who work in the Department of Bad Slash. (Jay and I, as if you couldn't guess, work in the Department of Mary Sues.) We're also making plans to complain to "Upstairs" about overwork.

And the fanfics are getting worse, too. In Lady of the Fellowship the Mary Sue, Akasha, nearly kills Jay, and Aragorn nearly kills *me*. I don't care HOW much I looked like a wraith at the time, I'm avoiding him for a while.. Also, did you know that Legolas is *older* than Gandalf? *Someone* didn't read the books.. and as for Protector of the Ring Bearer, words cannot DESCRIBE how bad it was. I'm quite sure there were never such things as nymphs in canon..

As for fanfic in general.. well, I'm not a purist. The writers can do whatever they like as long as they can make me believe it. I tend to see LotR as more fun than an object of awe- it's really, really hard to take it *too* seriously when you've rescued the Fellowship from a Mary Sue several times, yelled at your friend until she agreed to leave the scene where she takes nude pictures of Elrond OUT of the finished story (really true), been a pseudo-tourist in Orthanc twice, yelled at your friend for stealing a deck of cards from Saruman, discovered what it takes to cause Legolas to be sick, and so forth.

[Laurelyn]

Hee hee, Acaicia, Protectors of the Plot Continium is hilarious!!!DEATH TO BADLY-WRITTEN MARY SUES!!!!! DIE DIE DIE !

[Occasionally Jay]

People.....real people.......real read the books people like our stories....

(I'm occasionally Jay, Acacia's partner in the Protectors of the Plot Continuum-- just wasn't content with the vicarious praise.)

Besides, I want to meet you all.

[Acacia]

Okay, everyone, new PPC chapter! It's another one with two Mary Sues in it.. *really* bad Mary Sues. Incredibly so. So bad we finally decide to feed them live to the Balrog. They deserve it.. the charge list included stealing Sam's lines. Grr.

[Occasionally Jay]

And massacring the English language. And the Elvish language. And siiiiiiiiinging.....
(make it stop!)

[FrodoFriend]

Wee hee hee! Just posted two new fics! The "Lord of the Rings pickup lines" one is disturbing popular. Hmmmm....... :p

[emplynx]

My FanFic was finally posted on TT!
http://www.tolkientrail.com/rivendell/tanlom.shtml

[Menelvagor]

Congradulations Emplynx! I thought it was great, btw.

[Aragorns Dimple]

Personally I enjoy reading Fanfics of ALL types from parody to Mary-Sue to Slash. Each person's perception of the characters and how they would behave in another situation is entirely different, so condemning people for using their imagination is a tad narrow-minded. Most of the fics I have read at fanfiction.net are most respectful of the original material, they are merely adding their own personal slant to the proceedings. (So what if Legolas is gay, dammit!) Keep scribbling, all you budding writers out there.....

[Elfmaster XK]

I read fanfic sometimes and i think they're okay when they're funny. I think the point of most fanfic is to take the p*** and so i like it if its fun.hOWEVER i am a writer.
However, don't get started on the whole Romance thing. I agree completely, DOWN WITH ROMANCE... (Begins to sharpen points on arrows.)
If i see many more then people may die.#
But people, keep writing funny ones, i need a laugh after 2 hours of physics!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I will try to do this without contradicting myself too much. . .

~Mary Sues: Sacrilege. Need I say more?
~Anti-Mary Sues: good (I must read some of the PPC stuff sometime!)
~Slash: I'm sure there must be at least one decent story out there, but anything involving stuff like Aragorn/Legolas or Legolas/Gimli or Sam/Frodo, or messes with plot is, well, see my opinion on Mary Sues. Also, The Professor did not intend for any of his characters to be gay. I think. . .
~Parody/Humor: we all need to laugh sometimes. . .yeah, it's good.
~Romance, esp. Legolas romance: evil. die. (I wonder if anyone will ever write a Gimli romance. . .)
~Fanfic in general: I would initially be inclined to be against fanfic, as Tolkien is genius and nothing can compare to his writing, and ME is special, and LotR is THE fantasy book, but if I think about it, I have written fanfic from other books (harry potter. cough. cough.) and ME is such a great and complete world with many characters that are basically background but very cool, I figure as long as one does not mess with the plot in any way, it is alright. Besides, I was thinking about writing one about Elledan and Elrohir myself. . .:)

That was long. . .

[Menelvagor]

Gimli romances

Gimli: Oh, Khulian, your beard is so long and curly, I love you....!

Now that is just scary! :D

[Tanoliel]

Originally posted by Menelvagor
Gimli romances

Gimli: Oh, Khulian, your beard is so long and curly, I love you....!

Now that is just scary! :D
Yes...but it could be very funny, too...*plot* Heh. No...I'm not very good at writing romances. But I saw a really funny parody where Gimli ended up with Arwen, though I can't remember why...I sat there laughing and thinking, oh, poor Gimli...:)
-tano

[Acacia]

Well, I shall jump up and down on the bandwagon and say what I think of all the different kinds!

Mary Sues: Must die. (I just recently saw one who's the daughter of Gandalf and Galadriel. BAD mental picture. Will ask Jay if she wants to kill that one next. AND Aragorn's disgustingly far out of character.. AND the author KNOWS she's made him into "a sniveling coward"- her exact words- AND IS STILL DOING IT.. need I go on?) Sometimes, though, the story can still be salvaged. If it is, it stops being a Mary Sue and becomes an Original Character, which is a good thing.
Anti-Mary Sues: I write the stuff. Do you *need* to ask?
Slash: Okay, hit me with sharp things if you like, but I think Sam/Frodo is cute. I actually rather like slash, pity so much of it is OOC plotless tripe. This is a reflection on my attitude toward *all* fanfic: Do whatever you like, as long as you can make me believe it. I don't really mind that Tolkien never intended it, I look to see not that I can believe Tolkien might write it, but that I can believe the characters might do it. Maybe I'm just odd. Make me believe it- if you're slashing a taken character with anyone, make *damn* certain to explain what about their established interest. (I thought that A/A scene in the movie was overly sappy, but apparently some people *still* don't get the point..) If it's too hard to slash major characters without getting OOC, *don't do it*- there's plenty of minor characters to go around.
Parody/Humor: Fun! Funfunfun..
Romance: I am one of the least romantic people you will ever meet. I'd shy away from romance in general even if so many of them *weren't* cliched "Legolas-falls-in-love-with-a-real-world-ditz-and-acts-possessed" ones.

Tanoliel, you may be thinking of Cassandra Claire's Very Secret Diaries of Gimli son of Gloin and Arwen Undomiel. I *love* the VSDs. Particularly Saruman's. And Gollum's. And Ringwraith No. 5's. And Arwen's. Oh look, a break from the string of evil people's Diaries, though some plot-impaired Aragorn-lustbunnies may disagree. But who cares what they think?

I'm babbling, aren't I?

I'll stop now, before I make myself look like a *complete* idiot.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Wow, Acacia! A totally new, refreshing view on slash! I merely pointed out Tolkien not inteding it in terms of main (i.e. Fellowship) characters.

I've got to go read the rest of those Very Secret Diaries. . .

[Varda-Me]

Legoalas falling in love with Gimli? If someone wrote about that, they should have their head examined. Wait a minute - maybe there are things we don't know about the classics! Rhett falls in love with Ashley! Ishmael falls in love with Queegueg! Professor Snape falls in love with Hagrid! Okay, you get the point. Yuck.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Oh, I always thought it would be Professor Snape and Sirius. . .

:cool:

[Acacia]

Okay, Varda-Me, I have not yet found a good- or even half-decent- Legolas/Gimli one, but I firmly maintain that a good enough fanfic writer would be able to do *anything*.

This leaves, of course, only the problem of *finding* a good enough fanfic writer.

Although I've found a rather good Smeagol/Deagol one. Quite sad. "He was taking such a very long time to die.." see, I *like* that kind of thing..

Oh, and as for Gimli romances, I found one that made me giggle hysterically. Pippin, Legolas, and Gimli decide to have a kissing contest. Gimli wins. Definitely comes under the heading of sillyslash.

On an only slightly related note, who wants to make a list of How To Find Good Fics? My first few are:

-Avoid any fic in which even the summary is misspelled. I cannot stress this enough. The same goes for summaries/titles done all in lowercase with no capitalization at all- or, worse, ALL IN CAPS.
-Read the reviews first- but don't assume that good reviews mean a good fic. Actually *read* the reviews; if they go into detail about exactly what they liked, the story has a good chance of being good, but if there are only sentence-long reviews, or a surprisingly small amount of reviews for how long the fic has been up, they're probably just saying that. Many reviewers are spineless.
-If "Legolas romance" or similar words appear *anywhere* in the summary- or, worse, the title- RUN. Same goes for anything that in any way implies that anyone from the real world gets to Middle-Earth in any way, shape, or form *what*soever. I cannot stress this enough.
-If you want slash, look for uncommon pairings. The most common ones are more frequently sappy/smutty cliches and not worth the paper they're printed on. The fact that this is the Net and they aren't printed at all does not invalidate my point.
-If somewhere it is mentioned- in the summary, a review, an Author's Note at the beginning- that the author used a betareader, this is a GOOD THING. The story has a much better chance of being good. If you write, use a betareader as well. Betareaders are your friends.

Anyone else have ideas? This may very well be the first constructive thing I've done all week..

(Oh, and another thing for Varda-Me: Snape and Hagrid? Well, it's better than the utterly horrible unslashy pairing I've only heard of: Snape/Hermione! ~shudders repeatedly~ Eeeeew.. eeeeew.. eeeeew.. eeeeew..)

[Earniel]

Maybe we should put up a review-group here on the entmoot. We could make sound rules for decent Tolkien-fanfiction. Fanfictionwriters can send us their material, we'll view it for accurancy, continuality, and such and such. And if we approve their story receives the highly-esteemed entmoot-label which only fanfiction that wouldn't make the professor turn in his grave can get.

Alright, that is in a alternative reality....But it was fun thinking it out..:)

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Thank you, Acacia, for you wonderful, detailed guide to finding good fanfiction.

I still maintain that Snape and Sirius Black will fall in love one day. . .:rolleyes:

[Brimvalir]

As long as the person writing is skilled, fan fiction is great even for Lord of the Rings.

[Acacia]

In which the Department of Bad Slash appears in more than one scene, the assassins meet their first Marty Sam (who's slashed with Legolas.. ack), Acacia gets all possessive (because the Mary Sue gets Boromir- hands OFF!), and an unprecedented recruitment is made.

Go read it!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

And where is this to be found, Acacia? Sounds amusing. . .:)

[Tanoliel]

First: Acacia, if at all possible, can you post what the ff.net author names are? I know Cassie Claire (though not personally, unfortuntely, she's a great writer), but some of those others sound hysterical....authors, titles, links, whatever can get me there! :) Thankee...I shall go read the updated PPC soon, I promise.
FrodoFriend: did you post your fanfics on FF.net? What name did you post under? I wanna read 'em...
okay, that was more than two....anyway...
if sirius got together with snape, maggie would be severly disappointed, Eruviel, din'cha know? ;)
-tano

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Tanoliel
if sirius got together with snape, maggie would be severly disappointed, Eruviel, din'cha know? ;)
-tano

Oh, I forgot about that. All the more reason for them to do so! ;) Hmm, I think I'll write a story about that, just to drive her crazy! :)

And I want to read the PPC stuff!

[emplynx]

Originally posted by Menelvagor
Congradulations Emplynx! I thought it was great, btw.
Thanks! (I'm not a writer though!)

[BeardofPants]

Oh the sacriledge! Anyone who tried to emulate the One True Genious deserves to be locked in a room with Smeagol, with no fisssshesss... No! It's just completely wrong!

[BeardofPants]

Having never read fan-fic (what a name?!) - praise Eru! - I have no idea what Slash or Mary sue refers to... Now I read somewhere here, that a mary sue means a character from our world? Right, and she meets up with the fellowship? So what is a slash?

And, I'm PROUD of the fact that I'm ignorant of fanfic colloquialisms! :p

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend


Speaking of fanfiction, I'm posting my first one on Fanfiction.net today! When it's done I think I'll submit it to Tolkien Trail too. For once I think I've come up with something totally original - at least, I haven't seen a single other fanfic with this idea. It's a story about Tolkien himself and how he found the Red Book of Westmarch when he was a young guy. :) Sound stupid?

No, Frodofriend, I have heard this before. There are many people that say that JRRT found a sort of Red Book of Westmarch, and based his stories around it. Interesting theory. So, when are you going to post this story?

[Occasionally Jay]

Hoa, people...all the PPC stuff is under the author name Harpwire...


The URL is http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=576539

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Laurelyn
How do all you guys feel about FanFic? Especially Lord of the Rings fanfic? I'm just curious to see whether people like it, think it's sacrilige, or what. Any strong opinions out there?

Sorry if this has already been said, but I try to look at fanfiction from this perspective: most of it is silly fantasizing, but some people use it to improve their writing. You can work on plot development, and introduce one or two new characters without having to deal with the enormous task of developing a whole cast of characters. If that's your reason for writing, you might end up with something good on your hands. otherwise, have fun but don't expect us to enjoy reading it. :p

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Having never read fan-fic (what a name?!) - praise Eru! - I have no idea what Slash or Mary sue refers to... Now I read somewhere here, that a mary sue means a character from our world? Right, and she meets up with the fellowship? So what is a slash?

Mary Sue is basically when the main character is a girl who has the man/men of her dreams falling all over in love with her, and she can also be capable of continually saving the day.

Slash means homosexual relationships (two guys). Need I say more?

[BeardofPants]

Ugh. No, I've had my fill of that at the www.allscifi.com site, "Are Frodo & Sam gay/ Legolas & Gimli?" Bleh.

[Acacia]

You've already had my take on slash: It can be cute, sweet, thoughtful and quite good, but the execution is frequently lacking; that is, however, the fault of slash writers and not anything inherently bad about slash. It all depends on the writer. A good enough writer could *even* make an OC falling in love with Legolas seem uncliche. *How*, I am not sure.

And *whatever* you intend, if you have your (male) characters think things like "But I love him, whether or no," you are *GOING* to get slashfic. As night follows day. It will happen. 'Tis inevitable.

And if you want it, the S/D fic I mentioned is titled Birthday Present, you can just run a title search. I love it. It starts out so *sweet*.. then turns very *un*sweet in a big hurry..

Also, slash is not neccesarily two guys. It can be two girls, too. Given the relative lack of female characters in LotR, I was morbidly curious and went out specifically looking for such femslash pairings. I found bizarrity. Arwen/Eowyn. Do they ever actually *meet*, anywhere in the canon? Galadriel/Luthien. Despite the fact they- and in fact every female canon character I remember- got married. Very, *very* strange. I've sworn off femslash until these people come to their senses.

I'll go out looking for the strangest slash pairings I can find, if you're curious.

[Acacia]

Oh, and Tanoliel, the link to the Gimli-wins-a-kissing-contest one is this (http://fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=660473). Is a very *strange* fic.

[Starr Polish]

I found a Frodo romance, and it ISN'T slash...whoa :D. The story's...okay. It could use some editing. I think Pebber is a funny name.

The best part is probably when Frodo drops the jam jar...dunno why...just funny.

Ah..I have this idea for a Legolas (pre the war of the ring) fic...but I never get around to writing it. It'll be interesting, since not a lot is known about him. Lots of stuff to go off of, like how old he is...

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by BeardofPants


No, Frodofriend, I have heard this before. There are many people that say that JRRT found a sort of Red Book of Westmarch, and based his stories around it. Interesting theory. So, when are you going to post this story?

Cool, I didn't know there were other stories about it. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open. :) My story's posted now at Tolkien Trail and on fanfiction.net.

The problem with fanfic for me is, I don't like stories about the original characters. No matter how hard you try, they're never like they are in the book. Plus they're stories have already been told. So I like to invent new characters; unfortunately, most people don't like to read that kind of fanfic. :(

[Earniel]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend
The problem with fanfic for me is, I don't like stories about the original characters. No matter how hard you try, they're never like they are in the book. Plus they're stories have already been told. So I like to invent new characters; unfortunately, most people don't like to read that kind of fanfic. :(

It's vey difficult to include original characters. So new characters are the best solution, and so far I found that those stories are often better than fanfiction with original characters. The point is that you often have to include at least some of the original ones to give the fanfiction a little more connection with Middle Earth.

[TinuvielChild]

ok, the Gimli-wins-a-kissing-contest fic is definitely a very *strange* fic....yeah. right. uh huh. *shakes head violently to get the images out of her mind*. k.

the fics i like to read (usually either extremely sweet or extremely, extremely funny - meaning howls of laughter) are the ones about the actors - namely Orli or 'Lij. there are some good ones on FF.net.

some of the ones people posted are really cool! i loved the Mary Sues, they're awesome! (ok, i just have extremely strange taste in fanfiction. so Sue me *winces in anticipation of the smacks she will receive for that bad, bad pun* :D)

[Occasionally Jay]

I always thought Real People fic were creepy. I mean, how would you feel if people wrote stuff like that about you?

[Menelvagor]

Originally posted by TinuvielChild
ok, the Gimli-wins-a-kissing-contest fic is definitely a very *strange* fic....yeah. right. uh huh. *shakes head violently to get the images out of her mind*. k.

the fics i like to read (usually either extremely sweet or extremely, extremely funny - meaning howls of laughter) are the ones about the actors - namely Orli or 'Lij. there are some good ones on FF.net.

some of the ones people posted are really cool! i loved the Mary Sues, they're awesome! (ok, i just have extremely strange taste in fanfiction. so Sue me *winces in anticipation of the smacks she will receive for that bad, bad pun* :D)

Ok, you asked for it *smack*! :D

Did you see the new announcement tha ff.net put up? Their not allowing actor fics any more, it remains to be seen how well that will be enforced...

[Occasionally Jay]

So I heard. *cheer!*

Unfortunately, they're also banning MST's.....Is PPC next? *worried look*

[Menelvagor]

Yeah, MST's, Lists, and actor fics.

Actor fics I never really liked (expects staffbap from TC), but lists and MSTs can be darn funny!

I don't think you have to worry about the PPC much, what they said was that they were getting rid of MSTs because they had too much of other peoples work in them.

[Acacia]

There's a new PPC chapter up. Jay and I on vacation. Chaos ensues.

[Menelvagor]

Great PPC chapter! btw, Acacia I love your sig!

[TinuvielChild]

's ok, Menelvagor, i think it's fine if other people don't like the same stuff as i do, i got enough of people shoving stuff down my throat that i decided never to do that to other people. did that make sense? :)

[Menelvagor]

Heh heh. I just read the OFUM fanfic. Certainly... enlightening. :D

TC: look at my avatar, now I am a cat!

[Occasionally Jay]

Doesn't Cammy rock?


We got our first flames for PPC today! Milestone! *breaks out champaign*

[Menelvagor]

Hey, flames. Isn't it nice to know people care?

:D

At least now you can heat up those eggrolls.

[Occasionally Jay]

Eggrolls! Toasted Eggrolls! Onna stick!

[Menelvagor]

And now for something almost completely irrelevant ;) :

*Eggrolls roasting on an open fire, Mary Sues biteing at your nose...*

[TinuvielChild]

hey cool Menelvagor! Occasionally Jay, is this just my Discworld-encumbered mind, or was that actually a play on Terry Pratchett's CMOT Dibbler?

[TinuvielChild]

ooh, Menelvagor, today i walked around barefoot almost all day! go me! on rocks too and stuff! not glass tho. :)

[Menelvagor]

Ah, little one, you learn well. (That was odd...)

I'm happy 'cause I got to sit in my tree. :)

[Tanoliel]

No...I believe that WAS a T Pratchett refrence. btw, PPC folks, I really enjoy the Discworld bits you throw in...it's great! I have yet to post a review for you on FF.net...*smack* I will ASAP, I promise. What did the flames say? Anything of use? (Flame usually don't...:))
-tano

[Acacia]

Hey! My stick! ~is Acacia Onna Stik in several places, why do you ask?~

~thinks of uses for flames~ Who wants us to cremate a Sue with them?

[Menelvagor]

heh. heh. heh. Poetic justice....

*satanic (hm, I guess not satanic, melkoric?) laughter*

[Acacia]

No, the flames were true flames and said nothing useful. I replied with a near-essay..

[Occasionally Jay]

My browser decided not to alert me to all this discussion. I feel cheated.

*frowns*

And all these lovely discussions of those useful flames, too.

[Menelvagor]

What's up with the PPC? FF.net says your 'not an active user' anymore. :confused:

[Wayfarer]

People should go ahead and write fanfic-as long as they don't pretend that it's canon, and get defensive about it. If it sucks, it sucks, and it's better to burn it yourself than have somebody else burn it-and you.

But do you think the reason that fanfics suck is because the better writers are dissuaded by... well, people like some of the ones in this thread? I've done quite a bit of middle earth roleplaying, and I've both dished out and take correction. But as long as the people involved are willing to admit thier mistakes, there shouldn't be a problem.

But when people don't own up, and insist that the crappy stuff they add in is somehow justified, I say burn 'em.

[Occasionally Jay]

... PPC got kicked, along with my account...

It's hosted at www.misssandman.com under the lotr section...

[Menelvagor]

I see, said the blind man...

[Claenoic]

I go on fanfiction.net myself, and I say you guys have a few things right and a few things wrong.

The things that you have gotten right: Mary-Sue should rot where angels roast their marshmallows, Slash is evil, there is no such thing as a good LOTR fic.

The things that you've gotten wrong: Mary-Sues CAN BE PULLED OFF GRACEFULLY. I mean for me anyway. A LOT of character developement is required though. Humor is good (hence the story in my sig- READ IT!) as long as they don't go too far (as in over slashiness). Hikaness's The Pencil Show is one of my personal favorites. The bloopers you find aren't half bad either. Yes, THERE ARE fairly decent (and dare I say it? Good) LOTR authors out there, namely Jocelyn, littlefish, and the forever reigning Thundera Tiger. I recommend ALL of them.

All in all, there are good writers, bad writers, and writers who try (namely me.)

[Occasionally Jay]

Slash is evil? Only implausible slash. Aragorn/Legolas is implausible. It's just eye-candy.

Gimli/Legolas is plausible. There's half a precedent for it. It can be done REALLY well.


Sure, a self-insertion can be pulled of gracefully--but then it's not a Sue. By definition, a Sue is overly perfect and illogical.

[Claenoic]

Thundera Tiger is the BEST! Go READ hers already if you haven't. I stand corrected. Thanks Jay :).

[Lady Midnight]

Originally posted by FrodoFriend


A Mary Sue is a particular type of fanfic character. She is usually a girl from our world, beautiful, w/ some sort of magical power, who meets up w/ the Fellowship somewhere and does cool magical stuff. All the guys fall in love with her (notably Legolas) and she bring and aura of cheeziness with her wherever she goes. DIE ALL MARY SUES!!



So how would you feel about a variation on a Mary-Sue? Sort of a Mary-Sue gone wrong so to speak? ;)

Personally I see nothing wrong with Fanfic. It's good practice. Of course no-one could ever be as good as Tolkien but I'm fairly certain there are some half decent writers out there and fanfic is a good way to start off.

[Occasionally Jay]

I actually don't mind Sues. After all, they 're easy to spot, and then I don't read them.

My problem with them is the sheer volume that hit ff.net per day--burying the decent stuff. It's horrific. And many of them were never spellchecked, or even read over. (Forget research, at least SPELLCHECK....)

Then you get ff.net cliques. It's unfun.

[Lady Midnight]

Originally posted by Occasionally Jay
I actually don't mind Sues. After all, they 're easy to spot, and then I don't read them.

My problem with them is the sheer volume that hit ff.net per day--burying the decent stuff. It's horrific. And many of them were never spellchecked, or even read over. (Forget research, at least SPELLCHECK....)

Then you get ff.net cliques. It's unfun.

Not......................spellchecked?????? :eek:

*shudder*

[Tanoliel]

uh-huh. it be bad. I realize that spell-checks on computers don't catch lotr names...they just think they're all spelled wrong! :D But really...thats' why you have a beta-reader. Of course...all those misspelled names...Miss Cam should be happy. :D
btw, Jay and Acacia, I just caught up on all thirteen chapters of PPC, and it's absolutely BRILLIANT! I really love it. I can't wait to see where you're going from here.
-tano

[Willow Oran]

I finally found where PPC had got to!:) I came home sick from school today and spent a good part of the morning reading OFUM and PPC.
Personally I like fanfic. I'm addicted to LotR and fanfics are a way for me to pass the time while waiting for the next movie. (apart from re-reading the books over and over again, I do that too.) There are good fanfics out there. None of them are exactly canon but that's to be expected. I can't stand slash fics or Mary Sues though. I can read just about everything else but I avoid those two genres at all costs.

[Occasionally Jay]

I'll still defend slashfic. It can be a wonderful genre.

[Claenoic]

You do whatever you like. I'm still against slash and *shudder* graphic scenes... *takes all sick twelve year olds away from computer*

[Nienna Grey]

Firstly, I do not believe Tolkien would object to fanfic being written. He set out to create an entire mythology, remember, so IMHO he would quite like the idea of it filling people's minds and inspiring them to write their own stories based upon the characters and locations he created.

I personally love writing fanfic. I've taken part in continuing story threads on other message boads and written stories myself. It's just another way of immersing yourself in the world of Middle-earth.

Secondly, I cannot agree with the person who said "most fanfic sucks". Although the standard does vary, I have read some excellent and very well-written fiction. Of course it does not come up to Tolkien's standard but what does?

Fanfic writers get pleasure from writing, it does no harm and many enjoy reading it.

[Comic Book Guy]

Firstly, I do not believe Tolkien would object to fanfic being written. He set out to create an entire mythology, remember, so IMHO he would quite like the idea of it filling people's minds and inspiring them to write their own stories based upon the characters and locations he created

Tolkien exploded when someone merely drew a cover for the Hobbit, and it didn't represent the story. Who knows what he would do if someone wrote a story not representing his works properly and badly.

[Nienna Grey]

Hi CBG, I take on board what you say but I'm afraid it doesn't persuade me to change my opinion.

It's well-known that Tolkien was critical about how his works were represented but I believe there is a difference between how he would react to fanfic and how he would react to a cover which was to go on one of his books.

I am not suggesting that he would *like* the fanfic; I am merely suggesting that he would not disapprove of it. Imitation is said to be the sincerest form of flattery and, let's face it, fanfic could be said to be imitation, right? Of course, none of us have Tolkien's writing skills (if only!) but I cannot see that he would be angry if his creation inspired people to write stories of their own.

Maybe we'll have to agree to differ on this one!

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Well, being a fanfic writer myself *dodges broken bottles* I will defend my position, and exaimine both sides of the issue:

Pro:
1) Fanfics inspire young authors who may want to further their skills. By publishing these works (on the Net), they are able to dip their toes into the water, without having to go through the troublemsome (and, if they are newbies, potentially disastorous) process of creating characters with well-defined personalities, settings, a history, languages, etc...this point is the one I identify the most with.
2) Fanfics are forms of entertainment. Some are (much) less flattering than others(I should know; I've read some pretty bad fics in my time), but it is all meant in good fun.
3) Fanfics are a form of artistic expression, and (If you beleive in such things) are permitted through the basic human right of Freedom of Expression.

Con:
1) Fanfics do not, and can never, do justice to the author's pure work.
2) Fanfics can be...how can I say this...degrading to the author's original characters (Such as slash lemon...if you don't know what that is, please don't ask...).
3) Fanfics can be plain old silly or stupid, just excuses for an author to indulge in her (because, as far as I've seen, LOTR fics are usually authored by women) fantasies with the LOTR boys.

My Position:
Fanfics cannot be stopped, but I won't go into politics. It is highly unlikely that any induvidual can read a story and SINCERLEY think, "Wow, that was great, there is absolutley NOTHING that can be changed to make that story more interesting". And, with such a phenomenon as LOTR, so many people with so many different veiws read it, and express their veiws on it through fanfics. I encourge the writing of fanfics, but discourge the publishing of ones that do not contain even a shred of canon. If you're going to write something, write it well.

~*VALETE!*~

[Claenoic]

Has anyone noticed that FF.net has been hard, most times impossible to get to?

[Occasionally Jay]

FF.net was just moved to a new server: maybe the problems will stop?

(If anyone was looking for PPC, it's now on www.misssandman.com)

Slashfic, if done RIGHT, can be an extension of the feelings of two same-sex characters for eachother.

LotR lends itself to this because of the deep friendships that existed in a purely male environment. While they're fabulous examples of plain, simple platonic love, adding a physical element doesn't necessarily cheapen them.

My favorite pairing is Legolas/Gimli; they had a wonderful inter-racial friendship, and they're an adorable couple. Try Nimue's take on them, or Miss Cam's..

[markedel]

Acutally Middle Earth would be good fanfic territory...with the caveat the Tolkien spent 60 years trying to write good ME fiction and only published 3 books out of it. hose are big shoes to fill. Especially considering how good the "rejections" are . Instead of reading fanfic buy the history of middle earth. Read the lays of beleriand, read aldariona dn erendis. Read the people of middle earth. Read everything else Tolkien ever wrote on the subject. The fragments are probably better then the majority of fanfic.

[Tanoliel]

I have been talking to some of my friends (namely, Willow Oran) about fanfic and have come to the conclusion that while I like Harry Potter fanfic (in just about any form, excluding Mary Sues), I am extremely picky about LotR fanfiction. Things like the PPC or OFUM, which don't seem to take themselves quite seriously, I enjoy very much, but it's difficult to find good serious LotR fanfics. I agree that done well, it can be quite good, but I have yet to find more than a few that I really liked and could read without thinking, "but that's not RIGHT!" :)

Anyhow. Just my newest thoughts.
-tano

[Earniel]

Things like the PPC or OFUM, which don't seem to take themselves quite seriously, I enjoy very much, but it's difficult to find good serious LotR fanfics.

What exactly do PPC and OFUM mean?:confused:

[markedel]

I don' know what those mean, but lord of the ring satire, if well done, is great. Someone go read "Lord of the Whatever" and see what I mean.

[Tanoliel]

Er..sorry. :)
"PPC" stands for "Protectors of the Plot Continuum"...it's a story where, basically, two agents (I think that's the right word) have to go into fanfics and get rid of the Mary Sues, etc, and return the plot to normal.
OFUM is the Official Fanfic University of Middle Earth, where aspiring fanfic authors have to go to get certified. You get taught by all the characters. It's quite funny.
Both of them can be found on www.misssandman.com

-tano

[Earniel]

Thanks! :)

Mmmm, I think I'm going to check those stories out one of these days.

[Erawyn]

As a rule i really dislike fanfiction of any kind, including parodies, the thing is i did make up a character in my head, and it totally interferes with the plot. But i didn't do it on purpose and i would never actually write it down and put it online in hopes that well i dunno, whatever people hope to achieve by posting fanfiction...

[Claenoic]

I still can't get on FF.net. Nooooo!!!! I really need to delete a fic that was going to the Mary-sue side.

[Celebrian]

I am definitley against fan fiction on lord of the rings. Tolkien wrote these amazing books, and for someone to come along and try to add to what he did! Yuck!:)