a Silmarillion movie?

[Elvellon]

I’m certain that this was already asked, but whit the FOTR movie and with many new members this question becomes again relevant:

Could a movie be done from any of the Silmarillion tales?
What tale would you like to see in a movie?

[ragamuffin92]

Whew!! You scared me for a second there, Elvellon. I thought you were proposing that someone should make a movie of the WHOLE Silmarillion.
IMHO, the story that would translate best to the big screen would be the tale of Beren, Luthien and the Silmaril. It's got romance, adventure, suspense, spirituality, and lots of action.
For people who like moodier, Hamlet-esque tragedies, the story of Túrin (The Black Sword) Turambar might win something at the Cannes Film Festival. :)

[Elvellon]

I agree with you ragamuffin92, but what can be done with “ The Fall of Gondolin”? Perhaps a war movie?

[markedel]

The Quenta Silmarillion is doable as a series of short films. The idea of the Valaquenta as a fantasia sequence would be cool.

[noldorlord]

Markedel you've hit it bang on the nail. The silmarrillion is too vivid in my opinion to be done in one live action movie. It would be better to do it in a series of animations, perhaps one for each chapter or tale. The valaquenta would be amazing in a Fantasia style. It would still be hard to make though because to a lot of people it is the hardest of Tolkien's books to read, therefore the hardest to translate to film.

[markedel]

The hardest reading is the book of lost tales. I'll have to try that again...that was extremely perplexing.

[MasterMothra]

i would like to see the beginnings of me. maybe the wars of the valar against melkor. that would be cool.

[FrodoFriend]

I could definitely go for Turin on screen. I think a Silmarillion mini-series would be absolutely faaaaaaaaabulous! But who would make it? You'd have to be a very dedicated Tolkien fan and have lots of money.

[ragamuffin92]

Re: You'd have to be a very dedicated Tolkien fan and have lots of money.
Well, one of of two ain't bad...:D

[Mithrandir]

If there was a movie for the Silmarillion, it would be great if they included the music of the Ainur and the creation of the world of Arda. The music would definitely be very powerful and I'm sure the soundtrack would have to be well made.

[fungilorde]

I think akallabeth would be a great film, the reshaping of a world is usually a big hit.

[CardenIAntauraNauco]

The problem with a mini-series would be the small cash of most TV networks. The CGI would be horrible and you would need alot of it for any one of the battles/creatures/palaces/valar/etc..
a tv show couldn't cover that.

I'd say Beren and Luthien are your best bet. Turin is a wonderful part of the book, but I don't think modern audiences will watch somthing sad for the sake of drama. I guess it's a little to emotionaly realistic for movies. The good guy has to many bad characteristics.

[Renille]

Yeah...probably Beren and Luthien. It's the most like traditional "fairy tales." Though the fantasia Valaquenta idea is wonderful, too. But I don't know if I'd even watch a Silm. movie. The stories are too sophistacated and ethereal too be adequately portrayed on the television. ( Wait, who am I kidding??? I'd see it 10 times!)

[noldorlord]

Of course, with that sort of budget cgi would be poor. That is why I think that animation (ie cartoon) would be better. Then you could get more styliesed imagery and get the ethos across. I think people could attempt to get the whole book down in several short 15 min cartoons.

[Tuor]

am working on script ideas at the moment -
Trying to work out what would be feasible and what works best.

I think the only way any part of the sillmarillion could be translated to the cinema would be to concentrate on one of the longer. more complete stories. Even then there is very little dialoge in the treatments -

What would make a good film?

Tale of Beren and Luthien?
The fall of Gondolin ( Of tour and his coming to Gondolin)?
Tale of the children of Hurin?

These really are the only close to full narratives that tolkein completed - and of those I lean toward the tale of Beren and Luthien. It has adventure, danger, battle scenes and a love story...elements which make it easier to pitch to a studio producer...

Both Gondolin and the Narn i chin Hurin, end in utter defeat - Gondlin only works if you take the tale on to êarendil, Elwing and the War of Wrath. Even ending with Tuor's voyage to Valinor is difficult to explain unless you have the whole magnificent history....

What do you think? -

The Tale of Luthien is the greatest of the first age in terms of its significance in the recovery of of the silmaril...it also encompasses many of the core elements of the Sillmarillion. In effect the film would become an independent prequel with characters that the larger public of the LOTR are aquainted. But it would also give us insigt into the Tolkeins greatest love - the heroic saga of the Elves' war against evil in middleearth in the first age.

I mean:

1 Doriath, seat of the Beleriandic Sindarin culture. We get to see apart from Beren and Luthien - Menegroth in its "noontide", a look into the Sindarin world which shaped Middle earth for thousands of years. We meet Thingol, Melian (of the race of the Ainur..!) Galadriel - even Celeborn(?)

2 Nargothrond - One of the greatest Noldorian kingdoms in the first age - Finrod, Orodreth, the sons of Feanor and Huan the hound of Valinor.

3 Sauron - in the beginning.
Beren and Finrods capture by Sauron and Luthiens defeat of him at Tol Sirion
matches maiar henchman of Melkor against duaghter of Melian the maiar. The greater public knows Sauron from TLOTR trilogy.

4 Morgoth - we enter his throne room, watch as Luthien enchants them to sleep and as Beren wrests a silmaril!

5 The nature of Elven immortality ( serial longevity) and human "death".

6 The founding of the bloodline of Elrond ( and Aragorn) through the first bonding of Men, Elf, Maiar - that changed the course of history...

Its all there but...

Studio execs needs one liners. The Tale of Beren and Luthien could be described as Hero meets girl - loses girl - gets girl---
heroic triumph against good and evil......Tale of love over "racial/class" boundaries...It a complicatedinterplay of elements and with the proper screenplay need not be dumbed down for the cinema - in fact the sence of history and culture only auguments the "action" of the main storyline.

It works..I think . let me know what you think

Next BIG question...Who has the film rights?

[azalea]

I think if treated as an epic film, using a narrator to tie it together, it could be done. I am reading it now and I see it as a series of interlocking stories within the main story of the birth of a world and the struggles of the early dwellers there against evil, and the struggles that develop among the dwellers as a result of the evil. There have been movies done that encompass such a scope, focusing on a few different stories within the main story frame, using those to tie it together. A narrator would inform the viewer what happens from one storyline to the next. It could be the "elf" who actually writes The Silmarillion as that peoples' history. Marketed well, it could draw a lot of people, and if the movie is done very well, I think it would be fabulous. It could really be done as a movie series, but that might be a harder sell.

[Cirdan]

The difficulty with many of the Silmarillion tales as movies is that they are tragic. LotR has the big happy ending that most americans expect from a film. I agree with most of the previous posts as to which tales are the most marketable. The difficulty is the amount of backround information that is the common thread throughout the book as a whole. The rise and fall of the Numenoreans might be reworkable as a tie-in to the LotR and the rise of Gondor as a sort of "prequel". It would be critical to make the tie-in for the requisite financial aspect to be fulfilled.

[Nienna Grey]

I'd quite like to see it done as a series of movies, I don't think it would work if the entire thing was put together at once.

If each section was done separately many of them would be long enough to create a whole full-length film and full justice could be done to them all.

I wonder what Peter Jackson's doing after he finishes all his work on the LOTR movies in a couple of years .....

[noldorlord]

I still believe that animation (digital or drawn) would be the only way to do a series of silmarilion films because of the infinite possibilities. Especially doing the creation et al

[Samwise Gamgee]

Cirdan! No! LoTR, a 'big, happy ending'. Did you read the same LoTR as me? It's a tragedy! Seriously. Everytime I get to the end I shed a tear. Not just because I got to the end, but because of how heart-rending the ending is. The Shire, desecrated and destroyed by evil. It will never return to the way it was that fateful day Gandalf turned up at Bag-End. The Shire is at the end of the book a different Shire than the one we first meet in The Hobbit. It has grown and learned that the tales of dragons, warriors and goblins aren't just myths-they can affect the hobbits. But with their knowledge it changes The Shire, you could say like Aragorn & Gandalf are changed by the weight of the knowledge of the danger they face.
And then Sam. Dear, beloved Sam. Seperated from his beloved master as he sails West. I know it's for the best, but the beautiful poignency of 'Well, I'm home.' will, for me, always be a bittersweet line. Sam has lost perhaps the biggest part of his life in Frodo.
So, the end of LoTR is sad not only because with it comes the knowledge it's all over, but also because we see the change and repercussions evil has had.
PS-I no this is more LoTR than Silamrillion, bt had 2 b sed. Ne thoughts?
________
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[Elvellon]

I still believe that the tale of Beren and Luthien, and the tale of Tuor would do great movies, including the happy ending, which can easily be implied in the movies. (Tuor sails with Idhril and Voronwe to the West according to the legend of men and elves, and the tale of Luthien and Beren can easily end with them living happily to the end of their lives in the forests of Ossiriand).
On the other hand the tale of Hurin and his children is undoubtly the most developed, but also represents the most difficult to be successfully adapted to cinema.

[Tar-Elendil]

i know this is irrelevant, but the dude that played Elrond in FoTR would make a greatw Eol :)

[Jador]

After the success of FOTR,and the equal(or greater)success of the next two films-which is bound to come.Surely someone will come up with the money to produce another epic.
Any film of lesser scale than FOTR could not possibly do justice to The Silmarillion.
What to include?From the landing of the Noldor to the war of wrath,of course.It could be done in two films,maybe..
It has got to be done.I dont care if it takes a five years,infact the sfx will be better by then.

Could we pertition P.Jackson?:)

[Ñólendil]

But no one has the license to make movies based on the Silmarillion. The Tolkien Estate holds that license.

And if Peter Jackson gets it I will have to barf. He made a great movie and I'm sure the other will be great too, I just don't think I'd be able to take his vision of the Elder Days. After Return of the King, I don't think I'll want to see another one of his unremarkable depressing Elves again.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, I would be afraid for a movie of the Silmarillion to be made by anyone. I am not sure that it would live up to my expectations and that would make it a big disappointment for me. I prefer the movie of the Silmarillion to stay right where it is. In my mind.

[Tar-Elendil]

i agree with SGH.
neways..itd just turn out extremely cheezy and give the book a bad name :P

[Jador]

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
i agree with SGH.
neways..itd just turn out extremely cheezy and give the book a bad name :P

Sorry,but how do you reckon it would be cheezy?

It is bound to have less cheesy than FotR.

[Tar-Elendil]

just look at some of the parts in the Sil like when Turin held up his sword and "flames ran up the blade." they would show it and it end up looking cheesy. there are so many parts that they would massacre i would have a hard time reading a silmarillion again. a silmarillion movie i think could never live up to any tolkien fans view of the book. Its better just not being done.

[Jador]

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
just look at some of the parts in the Sil like when Turin held up his sword and "flames ran up the blade." they would show it and it end up looking cheesy. there are so many parts that they would massacre i would have a hard time reading a silmarillion again. a silmarillion movie i think could never live up to any tolkien fans view of the book. Its better just not being done.
Well o.k. Ill give you that,maybe some part's could look cheezy (more Dairylee than Galadriel in Fotr though?),but some bit's i.e. all of 'of Beren and Luthien'plus all the battles could be awesome.
Alright,some of it might not work but wouldn't you rather some one have a go,than never no if it could be pulled off or not? If it turned out rubbish,I wouldn't watch it either,but so what? Il would rather some one have a go.

[barrelrider110]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Well, I would be afraid for a movie of the Silmarillion to be made by anyone. I am not sure that it would live up to my expectations and that would make it a big disappointment for me. I prefer the movie of the Silmarillion to stay right where it is. In my mind.

I agree completely with SGH. There are too many names in the Sil to be exposed, so the story would have to be drastically reduced. If you selected one of the tales, Beren and Luthien for instance, a great deal of dialogue would have to be written. It would be extremely disappointing.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by barrelrider110


If you selected one of the tales, Beren and Luthien for instance, a great deal of dialogue would have to be written. It would be extremely disappointing.

Not necessarily, it all depends of who and how it would be done. I’ve still not seen the FotR, so I can’t say if Peter Jackson could do it, but I do believe a good director (with power enough to stand his ground) could do it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Elvellon


Not necessarily, it all depends of who and how it would be done. I’ve still not seen the FotR, so I can’t say if Peter Jackson could do it, but I do believe a good director (with power enough to stand his ground) could do it. Not sure about that. Although the LotRs movie was good and done well, and it's appeal seems to reach just about everyone, I am not sure that this could be accomplished with the Silmarillion. It is a far more complex piece of work then LotRs.

[Elvellon]

It certainly would never be wholly satisfying; reality (even that “reality” of movies) is never as perfect or powerful as one’s dreams. Yet, I for one would like to see some of the tales of the Silmarillion came to live on the silver screen, as long as if it was done by a good director with a love for Tolkien’s universe, and with the proper means to do it.

[elendili]

The film would be good if it was done realisticly and they didn't cut it too badly I'd love to see the spcial effects when the valar are fighting Morgoroth with the Dunedain.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I see this two ways. First, a well done (okay, perfectly done) movie of one of the tales from the Silmarillion, or a series of movies of the whole book, would be amazing, and I think especially the story of Beren and Luthien would be great. But I don't think it could work. To understand Beren and Luthien, you need to know all the history behind it. To do that, you would have to start at the beginning, which would take more than one film. And really, nothing is perfect, and certainly not a movie based on a book of such scale that the Silmarillion is. Though I'd love a visual representation of certain parts of the book, I don't think it could be done properly. I don't think film is at all a good media to portray a book like the Silmarillion. If someone tried to do it, they would be sure to do something wrong, or just not be able to portray it properly. And lack of a movie is perfectly fine with me; I would prefer my mental images of the book not to be ruined by a movie the way LotR was for me, as much as I liked the movie. And I would definitely not want PJ to direct a Silmarillion movie.

[elendili]

Yes i agree it would probably be confusing if you hadn't read the book but the special effects would be brilliant if done with no expense spared

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by elendili
Yes i agree it would probably be confusing if you hadn't read the book but the special effects would be brilliant if done with no expense spared

True, it could be, visually, spectacular. The special effects, anyway.

[Elvellon]

It probably wouldn’t be so confusing as it may seem at first sight. The number of facts that are absolutely necessary for the telling of the Tale of Beren and Luthien is not so big as to encompass all the Silmarillion. The film could start with an epic prelude (as I’ve heard P. Jackson did) to fill in the basics (probably limiting the time span portrayed to the near past of the tale), but making a few deliberate allusions to the larger story. This could actually be a good thing; it would tantalize the audience, making them want to know more (and opening the possibility for more films) but it wouldn’t distract them of the main topic of the film.

[elendili]

They could do several films from the book I'd especially like to see a film of Westernesse from the Akallabeth and the tale from Numeneor from the Unfinished tales

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by elendili
They could do several films from the book I'd especially like to see a film of Westernesse from the Akallabeth and the tale from Numeneor from the Unfinished tales

Akallabeth could be really interesting for a movie...it would be great to see the fall of Numenore and so on.

But still, NO MOVIE er, *cough*

[nami-chan]

God forbid anyone from making a Silmarillion movie. That book touched me so deeply that I don't think I could stand seeing a movie of it. Some things should just be left alone.

[elendili]

D-Sen agrees I don't

The Silmarillion movie would be really interesting it would be like the introduction to the LotR you would be able to have the entire history of ME on DVD, think lof the possibilities :D

[entss89]

WOW DO YOU KNOW HOW LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG THAT WOULD TAKE?:cool:

[BeardofPants]

Geez. What's with the bleeping caps lock
!??

God forbid anyone from making a Silmarillion movie. That book touched me so deeply that I don't think I could stand seeing a movie of it. Some things should just be left alone.

What he said.

I think I would seriously go loco if PJ touched it. Honestly. Can you imagine? It'd be fulled with crappy hollywood battles, and one particular heroic character would take over all the fighting scenes. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by BeardofPants

What he said.

I think I would seriously go loco if PJ touched it. Honestly. Can you imagine? It'd be fulled with crappy hollywood battles, and one particular heroic character would take over all the fighting scenes. :eek: :rolleyes:

I would die. Actually, I would probably just not see it. And write letters complaining. And all that. I mean, waste of a decent life to die over it, but still. . .

I really like the Lord of the Rings movies (mostly) but there's a lot of it I don't like, and I think I would go crazy if PJ were doing part of the Sil.

[Shadowfax]

Oh my goodness! I agree with you guys - BoP and EG! I love the book so much, and yes, I think it would be awful if anyone attempted to put parts of it into a movie!

[Beruthiel]

AUUUGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! I'm so taken by some of the artwork out there of the Sil, imagine what a freak I'd turn into if they made a movie?! I'd be a raging lunatic! (Prolly have to see it a million times and own it, but then, would they mangle it? YEP.)

:mad:

[Oivalar]

For one who has read LOTR several times. I am just getting into the Silmarillion. Actually, I believe that I could possibly be done as a series but there would be no mini prefix to it. However I believe that someone mentioned that they could pull a tale or two from the book. Beren and Lúthien (IMHO) would be one of the best ones to do.

[DraztiK]

But no one has the license to make movies based on the Silmarillion. The Tolkien Estate holds that license.
Actually New Line Cimema bought the filming rights to The Hobbit and The Silmarillion together with those to LOTR.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by DraztiK
Actually New Line Cimema bought the filming rights to The Hobbit and The Silmarillion together with those to LOTR.

I don't think they did...as I recall they were strictly forbidden to use any information from any books other than LotR and the Hobbit. So definitely not the Sil.

[UnStashable]

Well In the Movie Sarumen eluded to something (orogin of orcs)from the Sil so they may not have the rights to makes the Silm movie, but they could use information from the Silm.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by UnStashable
Well In the Movie Sarumen eluded to something (orogin of orcs)from the Sil so they may not have the rights to makes the Silm movie, but they could use information from the Silm.

I think there's something in LotR about orcs' origins. Anyone here know the answer...? 'Cause I have the feeling the movie would have been quite different had they used info from the Sil. Balrogs, for example :rolleyes:

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
I don't think they did...as I recall they were strictly forbidden to use any information from any books other than LotR and the Hobbit. So definitely not the Sil.

Yes, I recall reading this as well. As far as I am aware, Tolkien estate still holds the rights to the Sil.... which is why some of the appearances of the characters is not accurate in the movie.

Regarding the origin of orks... well, they certainly didn't come out of pods in the ground. It's pretty safe to say that that was a PJ innovation, not Sil inspired! ;) And yes, there is something in the book... Treebeard mentions the perversion of elves doesn't he?

[Elvellon]

Tolkien speculated about that a lot. Elves, Men, soulless creations without a will of their own, animated by Morgoths malice; in the end I think he never found an answer that he considered satisfactory.

[Rhûnboy]

Maybe as a Newbie, I shouldn't risk the wrath of those who know better, but I'd be really excited by a movie about all or part of the Silmarillion.

I will say I liked the first LotR movie, a lot. At the same time I have 2 or 3 dozen objections, but ultimately when I come to something like that, I can take it or leave it. I won't affect the book for me. It's just another way to sense or experience a book that I love.

Especially given the nature of narration in the Sil, I think there would be great potential to demonstrate (or really botch) characters that are really thinly sketched in this book. And don't read this as a criticism of Tokien... it's not. It's a different medium. An actor has a whole physical presence that can give expression... so I would like to see, for example, the look on Luthien's face when she first confronts Beren in Neldoreth, or Morgoth's expression when his foot's all hacked up. Hell, I'd be interested in seeing Morgoth, period.

I can't say that the LotR movie's Warrior Sauron matched what I saw in my mind's eye, but it was still neat to see.

And I think a big part of my point-of-view on this is that the movie at no point becomes a substitute for the read.

Anyway, just my 2 cents!

:)

~ Connor

[Maren]

I read that Peter Jackson actually has the rights to make the Silmarillion into a movie too. Since it is such an epic scale, I doubt he will, at least not in the near future. But he does have the rights, and he said it might be made into a movie someday, so that's encouraging. I'd just be afraid (even more than for the LotR) that he'd get it wrong, but I guess I have more faith in him now that I've seen the Fellowship.

Namarie,
Maren

[Sister Golden Hair]

Welcome to Entmoot Maren.:)

[LadyMelia]

I'm pretty sure PJ won't take on the task of creating the Silmarillion movie, although they already own the rights to it and also the Hobbit. I heard him say that the LotR movies were the biggest project he has and ever will take on, and I think that converting the Silmarillion into a movie would be a even more daunting task that LotR was. Maybe someone else will eventually buy the rights though, but I don't think it will be for a while. I personally am hesitant to believe that anyone can do it well, though it would be interesting to find out, wouldn't it?


Well, anyway. If they do, I want to be an elf extra this time! :) :D

[Sister Golden Hair]

Welcome to you also LadyMelia.
:)

[Cirdan]

I think I'll do it. A production of the tale of Beren and Luthien with an all "little people" cast and Shaquille O'Neal as Morgoth. The voices would be like the munchkins in "The Wizard of Oz". (j\k)


I'm reading the Lost Tales and there are parts of the earlier versions that would work better in a movie. I wonder if the stories of the Sil could be done in a mini-series format so that each story was just an hour. I don't think it requires the massive CG to pull it off if the dialog and story lines are handled properly.

[Maren]

Why thank you for your greeting Sister Golden Hair :)

I actually hope PJ does try to make it into a movie. I think it would be stunning. I hope nobody else tries to do it, b/c in my opinion, PJ is the man now when it comes to LotR.

The Hobbit would make an EXCELLENT movie!!!

Namarie, Maren

[BeardofPants]

Okay, I looked it up. New Line Cinema own the rights to the Hobbit and the Sil as well. I don't know whether to be horrified, or filled with a deep sense of forboding....

As much as I gripe about the LOTR movie, well, the action at least suits it, sort of. I don't think PJ's style would suit the Sil at all. I dunno - I really liked Bad Taste, Heavenly Creatures, and the Frighteners, but only because his trade mark directing style melded well with the subject matter.

Although: Not wanting to write it off altogether, Cirdan you're onto something there. A miniseries could work. But certainly not helmed by PJ: but I'm at loss for suggesting a director.

[Cirdan]

I was wondering about choice for director myself. There have been quite a few Authurian/Medieval period pieces; some better than others. "the Mists of Avalon" was a bit heavy-handed, but the CBS version of Joan of Arc was well done. I would think if someone were to capitalize on the popularity of the New Line productions they should probably start moving soon. I expect New Line would at least do the Hobbit while Ian is still available. I would like to see the tie-dye dwarves' beards. Hmmm, I wonder if we can get funding. BoP, are you available to work on the screenplay for the Sil?;)