The Forsaken Inn

[Churl]

Can anyone help me out here? In Fellowship, Book I, a place called "the Forsaken Inn" is said to be a day's journey east of Bree. Aragorn and the Hobbits, of course, bypass it by journeying northeastward through the Midgewater Marshes toward Weathertop.

But back to the inn … does anyone know what led to its "forsakenness?" Did Tolkien write any back-story or notes regarding the inn in The History of Middle Earth, etc.? (Or am I just forgetting some further exposition in Rings?)

As it stands in my mind now — a cryptic, one-time reference — the Forsaken Inn is yet another of the many intriguing, unexplored mysteries in Rings: one more place I wish I could visit. (If only in story … it sounds kind of sinister, actually!)

[Menelvagor]

Well, it might just be that the road was so little used, that the inn fell into disrepair. That'de be an interesting thing to figure out, I never really thought about it before.

[Wayfarer]

I always assumed that was because:

A) It was just an inn, way out in the middle of nowhere. Most ins would have been in or near a town, and had some people around

B) It was what, a week from bree and Two weeks from rivendell?

[Churl]

Hmm. &nbspI could be reading more intrigue into the name than Tolkien ever intended. &nbspIt just sounded rather ominous: "the Forsaken Inn" … as if it had once been frequented, but had been since overrun by something evil. &nbspMaybe not; unless it was described in greater detail elsewhere, I guess we'll never know.

I can't find the exact mention of it in the book, but I'm pretty sure it was only something like a day's journey east of Bree along the Great Road.

Incidentally, here in the U.S., we have the modern equivalent of the Forsaken Inn: it's called Motel 6. ;)

[luinilwen]

Originally posted by Churl
Hmm. &nbspI could be reading more intrigue into the name than Tolkien ever intended. &nbspIt just sounded rather ominous: "the Forsaken Inn" … as if it had once been frequented, but had been since overrun by something evil.
cockroaches?

it was probably only forsaken in the "evil days". my guess is people just stopped going there as travelling became less safe and thence less common. and then the cockroaches...

[bropous]

I don't know whether Tolkien meant anything nefarious about the place when he called it the Forsaken Inn. I think it was because the road, as has been mentioned above, had less and less traffic on it over the years, and the Inn being kind of in the country, fell into hard times, but apparently remained open. Who knows, maybe it was an old Arthedainic or Cardolanian tavern...imagine the only real customer base was stingy Dwarves and sporadic visits by Dunedain on their way through the area.

It does seem an intriguing locale, though, and really stirs a bit of mystery as to its originas and business history...

[sepulchrave]

the reference to the Forsaken Inn is on pg. 200 of my edition, chapter 11 A Knife in the Dark. I think the place is closed, and has been for a while...

[Churl]

I appreciate your thoughts and insights, everyone.

As can be expected here at the Entmoot, my question resulted from my enjoyment of Tolkien's work. Also like many others here I love Tolkien's work as much for the mysteries left tantalizingly vague as I do for the main characters, events and settings. For me at least, this depth makes Middle-earth a much richer fictional place than any other I've visited in books.

Some novels give you the sense that the main characters move through the story on "tracks." In other words, the entire fictional reality seems to follow them around, assembling itself like a cheap sitcom soundstage just long enough for them to say their piece there and move on: they never see any place or talk about anything that doesn't have a direct bearing on the linear plot.

Professor Tolkien's work, thankfully, is nothing like that.

There are enough details, mysteries, and untaken side trips to fill ten books the size of Rings. The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle Earth, et. al. have been prepared for the general public's reading by the author's son Christopher, of course, but sometimes I find that the best "side trips" in Middle-earth are those that even the background material leaves in mystery.

All of these — the enduring enigmas, as well as the sheer volume of poems, ancient tales, and background material that Tolkien wrote over the course of his life — make Middle-earth seem much more like a real place than many other authors' "cardboard" fictional worlds. …Just one of the many reasons we're still talking about Tolkien's work after all these decades, no? :)

In any case, thank you again for the continued responses to this thread.

[Comic Book Guy]

Instead of taking things literally, It could have been just a name for an Inn, The Prancing Pony doesn't have Ponys that prance does it?

[Laurelyn]

Yes, but who would go to an Inn with a gloomy name? That couldn'tve been good for business.

[ragamuffin92]

When you've been travelling through the wilderness for days, weeks or months, I don't think you'd reject a tavern because of it's name--unless it was "The Condemned-by-the-Board-of-Health Inn." :D

[Ñólendil]

But what idiotic person would name their inn The Forsaken Inn? That's not very good for business.

[ragamuffin92]

Well, I guess people who would be fussy about the name of an Inn don't generally wander around the wilderness, so whoever named the place probably didn't worry about that. Personally, I think it's a great name for a place, at least for the times it was placed in. Don't forget that they were dealing with a rugged clientele.
I knew a bar that advertised "stale beer and lousy food," but people realized it was a joke, so it didn't hurt their business. Probably drew some curious new customers, too.
LOL--They couldn't call the Forsaken Inn "Joe's Neighborhood Tavern." Everyone would have thought the owner was a looney. :D

[Thrain of the Shire]

Forsaken -- ah the images that conjures up. I find it interesting that "The Forsaken Inn" is in the book wheree we get the first hints of Aragorn's feelings for Arwen, of the tension between elves and dwarves, and a huge feeling of past golden times slipping away ineveitably into the mists of the next age...

Forsaken could be a name that "felt" right at that time, for have they not just forsaken safety and the Shire?


Or maybe the owner had just been dumped by a date and was feeling sorry for self when naming the pub.....

And as for Prancing Ponies -- well, I have seen Lipizanners....

[bropous]

Some other names that would be great for business:

1. The Robbed Traveller Inn;
2. Sour Beer And Salmonella Tavern;
3. Syphillis Sally's Massage Parlor and Hostel;
4. Empty Barrel Bar & Grill;
5. The Runny Nose Malt Shoppe;
6. Nazgul Family Credit Union;
7. Sweeny Todd's Barber Shop;
8. Gollum's Day Care;
9. Tom Bombadil Financial Consultants;
10. Enron.

BTW, I wonder when was the last time a green dragon graced the Inn in the Shire... probably about the same time the ponies were prancing in Bree...

[Thrain of the Shire]

to continue:

- the toad in the hole (literally)
- elronds instant service centre (think about it)
- Gimli's barbers
- Saruman's coffee mornings
- Sauron's special garden centre
- Saruman's jewellry store -- rings resized while u wait!

[Ñólendil]

ragamuffin, I get the idea that the Inn wasn't in the middle of Nowhere before it was 'Forsaken'. I don't think it was an Inn that was in business, I think it was an Inn that had been forsaken.

[ragamuffin92]

Could be, Inoldonil. To tell the truth, it's such a minor detail in the story that I had forotten about it until I saw the question here. But NOW, I'm going to have to try to find the place where it's mentioned in the FOtR, just to satisfy my curiousity. (grumble, grumble, grumble...) :)

[Ñólendil]

I think it's in the chapter called Strider in Book II. Or else it's in Knife in the Dark.

[ragamuffin92]

It's in "A Knife in the Dark", page 200 in the Houghton-Mifflin revised edition, 1965. The name is written exactly as follows: "the Forsaken Inn,"italicized and capitallized just like that--indicating that it was the actual name of the place, not just a description or a nickname. Since Tolkien said nothing to indicate that it was deserted (and there are no towns anywhere near it on the map), to me that says it was probably still open for business, as a sort of rest stop for travellers on their way to someplace else. No way to tell for sure, tho, and since it has no more to do with the story than the cats of Queen Beruthiel did, I realize why I had forgotten about it. :)

[Ñólendil]

I didn't know it was in italics, but I knew it was capitilized like that. It could simply be what everyone calls it, since it's a fitting name. I. e., it could have been called 'The Crooked Staff' when it was in business, but since it was forsaken everyone who knew about it called it The Forsaken Inn, and so the name changed.

What sort of people a day's march from Bree do you think would name their solitary Inn The Forsaken Inn?

[ragamuffin92]

Re: "What sort of people a day's march from Bree do you think would name their solitary Inn The Forsaken Inn?"

LOL--Not people with good business instincts, that's for sure. They should have lied, or at least exaggerated, like the people who named "Greenland" did (or so I hear. Never been to Greenland. Maybe someday. :D )

[luinilwen]

maybe it became forsaken after the owners decided to have dwarf women strip shows. :eek: i could just see aragorn... "nah i think i'll stick with the elven princess - less facial hair..."

[bropous]

"The Forsaken Inn" sort of conjures up visions of lonely "Stuckey's" stuck out in the middle of nowhere on the highway....

[azalea]

Maybe The Forsaken Inn would have attracted people that wished to remain anonymous, who didn't want to talk to anyone or be seen by anyone, because of secret business or something, as opposed to an inn that served as a gathering place for the townsfolk to chat and tell stories. Maybe it would have been a better place for the hobbits to meet Gandalf. Or it could have just been a romantic name given to an inn that was not in the center of town, but far out in the middle of "nowhere", but still along a busy road; the kind of place that the weary traveller would be glad to see (like the lone hotel along a deserted stretch of highway).

[Snowdog]

There are enough details, mysteries, and untaken side trips to fill ten books the size of Rings. The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle Earth, et. al. have been prepared for the general public's reading by the author's son Christopher, of course, but sometimes I find that the best "side trips" in Middle-earth are those that even the background material leaves in mystery. Yes, I agree! I saw this thread today and read the posts and it is a good discussion. I always wondered about The Forsaken Inn since the first time I read the books. The last couple posts here kind of brushed up against how I see the Forsaken Inn. it was a place where it was a little freer atmosphere, and with it, many darker characters. It was outside the jurisdiction of Bree and so the burlesque shows and hard drinking and rowdiness (think biker bar), and the line between good and evil was blurred some there. Hence Tolkien bypassed it as he would such a place in real life. This is just my imagination taking up where the Professor left off. There is alot as was said for the imagination to run with, especially the lives and generations of the Rangers since King Arvedui of Arthedain.

Me, I probably would have gravitated more toward there than the Pony in Bree proper. I had a character in an RP that was a Ranger that hung out at the Forsaken Inn. It turned out quite good as a story actually.

[Wayfarer]

I still think that it's forsakeness was basically due to the fact that it was out in the middle of nowhere.

[Snowdog]

And the reason an Inn was located a days ride east of Bree? :D

[azalea]

Even people living in the middle of nowhere need a pint every now and then!:)

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

Probably just a name.

[ladyisme]

What if the Forsaken Inn was a hold over from the times when the land had more people in it? For all we know the inn could be the last survivour of a town that died out, and is called forsaken because it is the only one left.

"The road goes ever on and on down from the door where it began."

[Nill]

So is the Forsaken Inn something like the Pony? Hehehe, if it is I'll come in and have a drink. :)

[ladyisme]

I don't think the book mentions how good the acomidations at the Forsaken Inn are, but the Golden Perch Inn in Stock is said to have exceptional beer. :D

"The road goes ever on and on down from the door where it began."

P.S. Welcome Nill to Entmoot! ;)

[Nill]

Thanks for the welcome. :) I'm on another message board on another site, and I thought this one looked cool, so here I am. :)
As for the good beer, the Dragon has some good stuff too. :)
Anyone know if I can change my screen name easily? I have another name I use, and I was wondering if I could use that.

[Snowdog]

So I start dreaming last night that I am a Dúnedain Ranger in the Forsaken Inn, and it was a sort of a Middle Earth biker bar, without the bikes though. It was a place where Black Numenoreans and Dunlandings mixed freely with Hobbits and Dúnedain and dark elves, for the fair elves wouldn't be found in such a debaiched place. Tha ale selection was huge with the line of finely carved tap handles along the bar... Mordorian Stout so black (think Guinness) to a light pale North Farthing ale! Unfortunatly I woke up when a tiff erupted between an old crippled Dunlanding veteran of Sarumann's defeated army, and a very drunk Rohirric man. I stepped in to break it up saying we have to get past the past. Totally wierd! I wanted to go back to sleep and return to Middle Earth. :D :D

[Keith K]

With the demise of the North Kingdom the road became more or less forsaken, used mainly by dwarves traveling to their mines in the Blue Mts. As the road became forsaken, the businesses along it also became forsaken....Ask any proprietor; the three secrets of success are location, location, location.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

"The Forsaken Inn" sort of conjures up visions of lonely "Stuckey's" stuck out in the middle of nowhere on the highway....Yes, and Stuckey's does pretty well out there, too, or they all would have folded long ago. Enough traffic to support them, and not much competition.

So maybe there was enough traffic on the Road from the Breelanders to support an inn. (People from the Shire once rode out to Bree for a change of pace, why not people from Bree going out into the wild lands a safe distance for the same reason?)

Too, such a location was good in terms of the westbound traffic on the road -- people would be getting short of everything, and longing for a taste of civilization, and yet not be able to get to Bree for one more night yet. Think of the prices the innkeeper could charge, way out there with no competition, the things they could sell, etc. There might not be as many people coming in as there would be in or closer to Bree, but what customers they got would be hungry, thirsty, and footsore, longing for some creature comforts and not in a mood to haggle.

Maybe "Forsaken Inn" was just what the Butterburs of Bree called it, not liking the dent it caused in their own business. The owner might have called it something much more pleasant or personable; heck, maybe they just hung out a sign: "Clean restrooms" or even "restrooms." :D

[Snowdog]

Yes Keith K, like the forsaken stretches of Route 66 after the freeways were built.

I still have a vision of the place as one that seen better days.

[Nurvingiel]

Where is the Forsaken Inn in Tolkein's books? It sounds very interesting, I think I'd like to go have a pint there.

Snowdog, I'm very interested in your signature. Who said, "I was so much older then, I'm much younger than that now." ?

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
What sort of people a day's march from Bree do you think would name their solitary Inn The Forsaken Inn?

Rangers, that's who!
:)

[Entlover]

Originally posted by Churl


Some novels give you the sense that the main characters move through the story on "tracks." In other words, the entire fictional reality seems to follow them around, assembling itself like a cheap sitcom soundstage just long enough for them to say their piece there and move on: they never see any place or talk about anything that doesn't have a direct bearing on the linear plot.]

Well, yes, but writers are supposed to concentrate on advancing the plot. Even Tolkien does that - either plot or character is advanced on every page. He just has such a massive plot and interwoven plotlines and so many places involved that it appears more like a real world.

[Keith K]

Originally posted by Snowdog
Yes Keith K, like the forsaken stretches of Route 66 after the freeways were built.

I still have a vision of the place as one that seen better days.
Perhaps we should call it the "God-Forsaken Inn" Snowdog!!

[Nurvingiel]

Tolkein also develops the history of Middle-earth and of each character very extensively, which also subtly advances the plot.

Places like the Forsaken Inn (where ever it's mentioned) succeed in doing this.

I think everything in a book advances the plot in some way, it just depends if it sends the plot in some pointless direction, or brings it closer to an interesting climax.

Tolkein is never pointless and extremely subtle.

[azalea]

It also helps to make ME a "larger" place than what the one episode encompasses. There are other people, elves, hobbits, dwarves, doing other things.

[Snowdog]

Snowdog, I'm very interested in your signature. Who said, "I was so much older then, I'm much younger than that now." ? Its the chorus line from Bob Dylan's song 'My Back Pages'.


More like Eru-Forsaken Inn??? :)

[Aphanuzîr]

It may be that the Forsaken Inn was called 'forsaken' because noone (except perhaps the Rangers) went there, like Deadmen's Dike (former Fornost). But Dwarves used the East-West road a lot; they would naturally want shelter for the night. Thorin's company passed through a country with 'an inn or two' in Eriador during the Quest of Erebor in 2941; perhaps one of them was the Forsaken Inn. After all, in 1966 Tolkien was "greatly concerned to harmonise Bilbo's journey with the geography of The Lord of the Rings". It does not explicitly say that they visited it though, but it would perhaps be a natural place of rest for them (in Appendix A Thorin stayed at Bree for the night, presumably at an inn, maybe The Prancing Pony where the meeting with Gandalf took place, which led up to the Quest of Erebor; though this was later changed to take place at the road near Bree (see 'The Quest of Erebor')).

TH, 'Roast Mutton': At first they [Thorin's company] had passed through hobbit-lands, a wild respectable country inhabited by decent folk, with good roads, an inn or two, and now and then a dwarf or a farmer ambling by on business.But there are also other mysterious things regarding the inn:

LR, 'A Knife in the Dark': 'I don't know if the Road has ever been measured in miles beyond the Forsaken Inn, a day's journey east of Bree,' answered Strider. 'Some say it is so far, and some say otherwise. It is a strange road, and folk are glad to reach their journey's end, whether the time is long or short. But I know how long it would take me on my own feet, with fair weather and no ill fortune twelve days from here to the Ford of BruinenSomehow this passage leads me to think about a 'ghost town' (inn) that moves along the road, so that travellers who visit or pass the inn by get different feelings about how long the road to the Ford of Bruinen is. But Aragorn seems to know for certain how long it will take him to walk the road; does the effect not concern Rangers?

But since Aragorn says it would take me on my own feet, with fair weather and no ill fortune twelve days from here to the Ford of Bruinen, perhaps people just get different feelings about how long the road is because the weather varies a lot and unexpected things happen to them, and this makes the time to walk the road to vary a lot.


The Sindar called themselves Eglath, the Forsaken People. Could it be that the Forsaken Inn was controlled by Sindar who were among those Sindar who went East from Lindon in the beginning of the Second Age? On another Tolkien board Michael Martinez also speculated that it was controlled by Avari, from the etymology of the word forsaken.


It is sort of curious that Aragorn saysI don't know if the Road has ever been measured in miles beyond the Forsaken Inn because the Númenóreans in Isildur's day had measured the road from Bree to Rivendell:

'The Disaster of the Gladden Fields', note 6 (Author's note):These roads [the North-South road and the East-West road] crossed at a point west of Amon Sûl (Weathertop), by Númenórean road-measurements three hundred and ninety-two leagues from Osgiliath, and then [b]east to Imladris one hundred and sixteen: five hundred and eight leagues in all.

[Attalus]

I would suppose that Aragorn was unaware of that measurement, since it was so many years since the Gladden Fields, and much lore had been lost.

[Snowdog]

Good disertation Aphanuzîr. An old, ghosttownish image of the Inn I always had, little used but still viable. its heyday was most likely in the grander days of Arnor, which is speculation on my part.

[Jon S.]

Everyone so far seems to have interpreted "Forsaken" as an adjective modifying "Inn." But what if it's a noun? That would make it essentially "The Inn for the Forsaken" AKA "The Forsaken Inn."

Not a bad name, really, to entice weary travelers in a deserted portion of Middle Earth who, by then, undoubtedly felt forsaken.

[Olmer]

But what if it's a noun? That would make it essentially "The Inn for the Forsaken"
Not a bad name, really, to entice weary travelers in a deserted portion of Middle Earth who, by then, undoubtedly felt forsaken.
Kind like in "Hotel California" by Eagles? ;) The inn which is there, but better to be avoided?As I recall it located somewhere near Midgewater marshes.

[Nurvingiel]

Good disertation Aphanuzîr. An old, ghosttownish image of the Inn I always had, little used but still viable. its heyday was most likely in the grander days of Arnor, which is speculation on my part.
Yeah it was excellent. How long is a league anyway? An 1/8th of a mile? :confused:

I was wondering about the name too Jon S. I like your idea. If the inn did date back to the good old days, before Fornost was called Deadman's Dike, I imagine the inn would have had a more cheerful name. Travellers wouldn't have been forsaken then, and neither would the inn. :)

[Valandil]

Yeah it was excellent. How long is a league anyway? An 1/8th of a mile? :confused:


A league is three miles.

The term for 1/8th of a mile is 'furlong' - from the length of a furrow, ie, how far a farmer would plow in a line before he turned his plow around and went back the other way... and FYI - an acre is 1/8th of a mile (660') long by 1/80th of a mile (66') wide.

Nurvi, I thought you were gonna tell Olmer that The Forsaken Inn IS like the Eagles' "Hotel California" song! ;)

Yes - I think over time the use of the Great East-West Road just greatly diminished - and that all the many inns and towns that had once lined it gradually disappeared. There may have even been less in 3018-19 (the travel years in LOTR) than there had been in 2941-42, when Bilbo would have passed that way in "The Hobbit". Perhaps by 3018, what was then called "The Forsaken Inn" (and perhaps only as a nickname) was barely hanging on.

[Nurvingiel]

I didn't say because of course it's like the Eagles song! :D Um... yeah. (Sung by the servants of Manwë ;))

Interesting post Val. Now that you say that, I'm sure that the Inn didn't start out as the Forsaken Inn. Who would name a probably (or hopefully) prosperous Inn 'forsaken' unless they were being ironic or funny? Probably not even Aragorn remembered its original name.

[Spock]

"The Forsaken Inn" sort of conjures up visions of lonely "Stuckey's" stuck out in the middle of nowhere on the highway....
I agree with bropous and Wayfarers thoughts on this, it sounds right. It wasn't enroute to anywhere just "out there" in the wild world. :cool:

[Jon S.]

FWIW, the section of The Tolkien Forum intended for "Relatively serious off-topic discussions involving various social issues, philosophy, literature, and similar topics" is named The Forsaken Inn.

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=97

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with bropous and Wayfarers thoughts on this, it sounds right. It wasn't enroute to anywhere just "out there" in the wild world. :cool:
It must have been not so 'out there' at one point though, otherwise why build an inn?

[Spock]

..speculation...build and they will come....out where nothing exists to serve the wanderers and/or those who don't crave companionship; i.e. Bree, Shire, etc.

[Nurvingiel]

Field of Dreams - the unreleased Middle-earth version! :D

Would you really walk for 3 days to go to an inn in the wilderness when you could go to the Pony though?

[Spock]

depends upon the ambience and entertainment. ;)

[Snowdog]

Field of Dreams - the unreleased Middle-earth version! :D

Would you really walk for 3 days to go to an inn in the wilderness when you could go to the Pony though?Well... being that it is outside the jurisdiction of Bree... the ambience and entertainment may be a bit..... wilder? :D

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

some thoughts:
in arnor there must have been many many settlements, towns, villages, hamlets and lone inns, farms and homesteads. after the division of the high kingdom, many would have fallen by the wayside, as people moved to the larger areas, such as fornost etc, eventually there would have been fewer and fewer, and so these areas would have become forsaken, and by the time that aragorn and the hobbits passed by, perhaps The Forsaken Inn was the last of these smaller areas surviving, and left with maybe a couple of houses, housing just the staff of the inn and their families, and serving in the inn the elves dwarves and rangers passing along the road, not to mention one or two adventurous breelanders ;)

[Gordis]

I think it is a very clever explanation, LCOU!

[Olmer]

..in arnor there must have been many many settlements, towns, villages, hamlets and lone inns, farms and homesteads. after the division of the high kingdom, many would have fallen by the wayside, and so these areas would have become forsaken, .., perhaps The Forsaken Inn was the last of these smaller areas surviving...
Actually, your idea is not too far from mine.But I think that settlements and homesteads were have fallen not after division of the kingdom, but after invasion of Gondor.They were "cleaning areas from fell people" driving them out and killing those, who stayed behind( I know, I know it is a very serious accusation, but we can discuss my reasons in separate thread). The Inn was saved, because it had been used by gondorians, probably to provide food and shelter for a small military force, which stayed behind. This why later this inn was called Forsaken.

[Gordis]

But I think that settlements and homesteads were have fallen not after division of the kingdom, but after invasion of Gondor.They were "cleaning areas from fell people" driving them out and killing those, who stayed behind( I know, I know it is a very serious accusation, but we can discuss my reasons in separate thread). The Inn was saved, because it had been used by gondorians, probably to provide food and shelter for a small military force, which stayed behind. This why later this inn was called Forsaken.
The Forsaken Inn was East of Bree. It looks like it was in Cardolan?
Then I would say the population of the area dwindled after 1409 Angmar-Cardolan War, unles it was later, during the Great Plague.

But I would be interested to read your accusations against Gondorians nontheless, Olmer. Angmar wars is my fav. period :)

[Butterbeer]

just don't mentions hobbits or the shire at the bar if any Angmarians are around! :D

Angmarian locals (or spies if you prefer) No! never heard of hobbits no nor halflings either! The shire? never heard of it!

Code of the NINE: seek for the Olmer that was woken , in forsaken places it dwells .... ;)

...............................

Its a great name 'the forsaken Inn' : i tend to think it acquired the name by its users over a period of time... quite possibly generation after generation, at first possibly a nickname then what everyone called it ...

for eg a local where i used to live was always 'the Traff' which changed its name - or had it changed rather - ( to be honest i can't remember to what) i came back down that way last year: it was still Technically called whatever but everyone still called it the Traff: there was even an up-to-date pool league chart on the wall and that was 'the traff' and this must be what five years after it supposedly changed names?


anyone ever viewed the Forsaken inn rpg? Only had a quick cursory look myself: but i'll tell you one thing about the inn: it never rains but it pours!

no one around for ages and suddenly a whole host of interesting, diverse and wonderful folk turn up on the same night! Larks! Talk about singing and story-telling: that was the place to be. (the inn keeper had been telling the business manager round them parts for ages this would happen: but would he invest in a new sauna and jacuzzi /gym area? NO!)


I think it must have survived though on being the only place for miles around before you really hit the wilderness : its a bit like those signs: last garage for 90 miles etc: its either your last chance for a warm bed, a hot meal and a pint or two, or your first for ages if going / coming back the other way - or just a natural destination for those wanting to walk and camp away for a few days out in the country: i.e more adventorous hobbits breefolk etc and of course some regular trade from rangers and other folk!