dwarf women

[Marcus]

Does anyone no if there are any dwarf women
where do all the dwarfs come from if there are no women
and since i am assuming no one can answer if there are dwarf women then i will ask another question why not

[Menelvagor]

It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf women, probably no more than a third the whole people. The seldom walk abroad, except at great need. They are in voice and appearence, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among men that there are no dwarf women, and that the dwarves grow out of stone.
-Lord of the Rings Appendix A, Durin's folk

[Marcus]

thanks

do u think they had beards too

[Menelvagor]

I suppose they would have to, to be indistinguishable from the men, but I suppose they could just wear fake beards when they travel. What I want to know is, Why?

[Marcus]

I have absolutly no idea but i will think about it
if anyone can come up with any ideas then post them it will be interesting to see.

[Ñólendil]

It's said in The Peoples of Middle-earth that the Dwarf-women had beards.

[Marcus]

ewwww dwarves are sick then
But still
WHY¯¿¿¿

[Aragorn]

Can anyone picture teenage girls walking the streets with big hairy beards?

[Marcus]

eewwww
can anyone imagine cate blanchett with a beard
or liv tyler

[Comic Book Guy]

More than likely they thought it was odd other folks females didn't have beards. They also had beards from the beginning of their life.

"Ah, Doesn't the new baby look cute, he's got his Fathers Beard."

[Marcus]

that is funny and sick at the same time
how did the dwarfs go on dates or meet girls
you go up to a Potential female and hit on her and she turns out to be a guy
ewwwwwwwww

[ragamuffin92]

Sounds like life back in the hippie era (late 60s & early 70s). More than once, I saw someone who looked like a woman from the back, but when I went over to say hello, sometimes it turned out that "she" had a beard and sang bass. Happened more than once, and I had 20/20 vision. :)

[Marcus]

what did you do when they were guys and you were hitting on them

did any of them accept the invitation hahah that would be funny

[luinilwen]

ragamuffin how does one "sing bass"??? :p

as for me i can't stand having hairy legs let alone... ewwww do you think tolkien made it up that dwarf women were virtually the same in voice and visage as dwarf men simply because he forgot all about them in the hobbit and LOTR and went oh s@#$! i better slip in an appendix about this... :)

[ragamuffin92]

Marcus, in that situation, when you realized the long-haired "beauty" was a guy, you usually tried to cover up your surprise by saying something like, "Yo, dude, you got a match?" and try to act like you knew all along.:)
To Luinilwen--
You might be right about Professor T throwing in the description of dwarf women at the last minute. You know, the old "absent-minded professor" syndrome.
Re: "how does one "sing bass"???"
It's just like singing mackerel, only deeper in pitch. :D

[ragamuffin92]

Bropous, that would explain a lot. The trees that kept jumping out in front of me when I was skiing at Breckinridge looked kind of HOURNISH, and I saw a lift operator with REALLY rough skin, who kept saying things like, "HOOM, hom, don't be hasty, now. There's plenty of room on this Manalla-relouris-sinbellasin... errr, this chairlift." :D

[bropous]

Well, if one were to classify a woman's "beard" as Chaucer did Allisoon's in the "Miller's Tale" from "Canterbury Tales,"....well.....

As for how does one sing bass, I prefer a lot of folks who sing bass...bassically out of earshot!

Or love listening to someone sing tenor....tenor twelve miles away!

Or, for that matter, the beautiful sound of someone singing solo....so lo I can't hear 'em!!!!!

And yes, I forget where it is written in Tolkien's works....but Dwarf wimmen gots beards! And I highly doubt that Dwarf Men can't tell the difference!

[afro-elf]

Groans so audibly, that the Balrog awakens.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
More than likely they thought it was odd other folks females didn't have beards. They also had beards from the beginning of their life.

"Ah, Doesn't the new baby look cute, he's got his Fathers Beard."

Dwarves were born with beards? Is there any basis for this in the texts?

[bropous]

Sssssshhhhhh, now now, little Balrog, go back to sleep...

Hush little Balrog, don't say a word...
Papa's gonna buy you a Nazgul bird....
If that Nazgul bird don't fly...
Open your mouth and let the b**tard fry...

[wink!]

[Starr Polish]

Well, obviously the dwarves don't find it unattractive. It's all a matter of culture, like here in the US, where supposedly the 'waif' look is popular.
Personally, I think overly skinny girls are unattractive, as well as myself.

[FrodoFriend]

I agree with the 'waif' look being unattractive (and for me, unattainable :) ).

Maybe dwarf women have long silky beards and heavenly voices, and the sight of them dancing is like the dance of leaves in the wind on a pale autumn day. We really don't know do we? Maybe dwarf men like a dwarf woman better the longer her beard is. It's all a matter of perspective.

[ragamuffin92]

To tell you the truth, I don't think that dwarf men are romantic at all. They honor loyalty, straightforwardness, dependability, strength, etc. They do (did?) appreciate beauty (as when Gimli was awed by Galdriel--he didn't pine because he couldn't marry her), but being blunt, stumpy, stocky, ham-fisted men, with little, if any, grace, I don't think they looked for their brides to be waifs. That would be like Treebeard falling for a fern!! :)
To dwarves, candlelight was probably only something to help you see at night, not for setting a mood.

[bropous]

Well, to each their own....personally, the "zaftig" Reubenesque look activates my retrograde peristalsis with immediate efficacy....

I can see it now...Fangorn "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm hoooooommmooommmmmmmmhooommmmmm....you sure have nice fronds, Madame barumtilhadurichoolvirikuntirian Fern..."

And then: Drunken Elf: "Where the Dwarf wimmen at???"

[afro-elf]

Or a sober me where the Elf women at :D

[Feraway Hawkbriar]

LOL! this whole thread cracks me up!

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


Dwarves were born with beards? Is there any basis for this in the texts?

No, but the comment appeared to me to be nothing more than a joke. In fact, there is a passage which implies that Dwarves weren't considered mature until they got their beard. Take that for what it's worth.

[Comic Book Guy]

"no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf–unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls."

That is from a Pre-LOTR text from the War of the Jewels.

[bropous]

oh geez, Comic Book Guy, THANKS for the mental images THAT quote brought forth! LOL! ;)

Me and my all-too-fertile imagination......anyone know where the "off switch" is on this thing???

[bropous]

"For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives..."

What? What? O Infallible One has actually made a mistake???? Clutch the pearls! Bar the doors! The world is ending!!!!!!

;)

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by bropous
"For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives..."

What? What? O Infallible One has actually made a mistake???? Clutch the pearls! Bar the doors! The world is ending!!!!!!

;)

So much for promises.

You are a fool to start up the flames again.

[Michael Martinez]

And I might as well point out that our scholarly fool provided a citation from an abandoned text, which was superseded by a text which deliberately omitted all reference to Dwarves being bearded from birth. But, apparently, good scholarship demands that the author's wishes be ignored and passages be quoted out of context and without attribution.

[bropous]

Martinez, you refused my apology, had not the moral courage to accept a heartfelt offer to bury the hatchet, continued for hours after I apologized most sincerely to trash me in thread after thread, and now you have the nerve to act the wounded party? All you have proven is that you are EXACTLY what I originally characterized you to be. Ibid, baby. Ibid.

Here's a little quote from Tolkien you might chew on:

"What happens when the culprit is genuinely repentant, but the sufferer is deeply resentful and withholds all 'forgiveness?...Of course, the power of mercy is only delegated and is always exercised with or without cooperation by Higher Authority. But the joys of cooperation must be lost?'" "Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 127."

Again, Martinez, I offered a sincere and blanket apology and you spat directly in my face. I turned the other cheek and you slapped that one, too. Repeatedly. Well, I stand up to you, attempted bully, and I suggest others do the same, for you have not the backbone to admit when YOU are wrong, and that is the mark of less than a man. I offered, you refused, I offered again, you insulted. "Live by the sword, die by the sword...".

I kept to my promise as long as self-respect could allow. You have shown such puerile immaturity in the face of sincere desire to build bridges you are beneath contempt, and from this point on, are not worth the energy to waste words upon. Tolkien himself would throw you to the wolves as a poser, copycat, and scholar only of bathroom stall graffitti. How 'bout you actually write a book of originality instead of standing on the back of the Master? Y'ain't got it, Martinez, you never had it, and as for "quoting discarded works", it seems your entire "book" [sic] is constructed of such "cast-offs". Pot calling the kettle black, Mikey-poo. I'd rather discuss the works of Tolkien with someone of greater mental agility, such as a retarded troll.

[continued content censored]

Sorry folks, I know this ain't the place for this sort of post, and I've set aside the standard I tried to uphold, but I won't sit by and let this pompous, self-important, plagiaristic windbag insult me in thread after thread without standing up for myself. Should he turn on you as well, as apparently he has done to many here, stand up for yourselves. You'll feel better about it.

Moderators, administrators, I go myself to the woodshed to await your just punishment. I ask for no mercy. I'll not post again on the Moot until one of you lets me know it's okay. Preserve the peace here as you see fit. I've broken the rules, and will take my just desserts. Like a Man. Let's see if Martinez has the, well, you-know-what, to take responsbility for his stoking the fires of this flame war with logs of hatred for any who disagree with him. Remember, a flame war cannot occur with only one throwing flaming darts of rhetorical attack. Takes two to tango. Being an "expert" on a TV show should not exempt him from the rules the rest of us should, rightly, follow.

Again, my apologies to the Moot. The best to all of you. I've enjoyed what I have learned from you folks. Made me appreciate Tolkien all the more. Adieu to all to await the decision of the powers that be. This is their Moot, and I broke the rules. Peace must be preserved. Bon Moot!

[Wayfarer]

Eeek...

That was a nice flame, Broupous. I give it a 9.7!

But I hope to see you around again. If you're not going to post here anymore, feel free to visit the forums at http://mevault.ign.com. The most active ones are the General Board (http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5042) for all around fun stuff, and the Developers Board (http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5043).... the people there make (or once made) a sport of flaming each other, and the local nazgul are really nice, and not apt to ban you however nasty you get (although you may get posts deleted).

I really do hope you can stick around here. It wouldn't do to have to have other people do brollum... we might get your brand of nailpolish wrong! And one person shouldn't be reason enough to leave (although you seem to know how dangerous it is to piss off the admins). Hope things work out.

Shame on you Micheal! Speaking not as a Tolkien Fan, but as someone who makes a hobby of nasty humour, cutting remarks, flaming, and being mean to people, you handled that in entirely the wrong way! Broupous was willing to put the whole thing behind him, and you escalated it again over something less insulting than I say to my best friends almost daily. Heck, even Morthoron (remember him?) and Braldor are nicer to each other (and others). Than you just demonstrated yourself to be.

Honestly, If I acted in the manner you have, I would long since have become unable to carry on a conversation with most of my good friends. Ask Inolondil how many times he's corrected me, or I him. I guess we're mature enough to respond with good humour.

[afro-elf]

TO BROPOUS,

It would be a great loss to the MOOT if you are not around.
I hope that you will reconsider.

WAYFARER

I tried undating my vault thingy and it never worked.

[luinilwen]

i know nothing of the depicted conflict between martinez and bropous, although i believe it would be detrimental to the board if we were to lose any worthy members here.

perhaps i am biased in the favour of bropous, but as an objective hobbit reading bropous' earlier comment (yes, the pre-flame one) i should think it was the utilisation of a sense of humour, being interpreted as antagonisation derived through the lack of a sense of humour.

i think personal differences ought to be set aside here, as this board is a rare exhibition of intelligent and courtious people (everyone who's ever been on IRC will know how rare a flame free conversation can be!). i have seen people of different beliefs making friends, people of different opinions conceding to others and the youth and elders expressing intelligent and original thoughts alike.

i believe this is where i use the expression "keep it real, y'all." :D(i heard it on ricki lake hrm hoom)

:) :) :)

[ragamuffin92]

Bropous, I'm new here, but I agree with Afro Elf and Wayfarer. Stick around--I don't see any way that you were in the wrong.
To Michael--Life's too short (or too long, depending on whether you like it or not) to harp and pick like you've been doing. Anyway, these are just BOOKS of FICION we're talking about (GREAT ones, but still make-believe). No call at all to jump down somebody's throat. Lighten up and have some fun with this stuff. :)

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Wayfarer

Shame on you Micheal! Speaking not as a Tolkien Fan, but as someone who makes a hobby of nasty humour, cutting remarks, flaming, and being mean to people, you handled that in entirely the wrong way!

No. Shame on you for giving encouragement and support to a flaming asshole who attacks people simply because he doesn't like what they say.

No one forced Bropous to act the way he did any more than anyone forced you to support him.

And I do not accept back-handed apologies from flamers who continue to provoke me with their so-called apologies.

Those who choose to associate with and support flamers end up in all the refuse the flamers create.


I would much rather act as I have, Wayfarer, with integrity, than as you have. I suggest you quit being part of the problem here and start being part of the solution. If he can only choose between being a flaming ass and absent, Bropous is at least being part of the solution through his absence. He COULD have chosen to behave.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by ragamuffin92
To Michael--Life's too short (or too long, depending on whether you like it or not) to harp and pick like you've been doing.

You have much to learn about the Internet, and clearly have failed to notice this all started with Bropous. If you really insist on joining this flame war, you'll only show you are no better than he who started it.

Your choice.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by luinilwen
i know nothing of the depicted conflict between martinez and bropous....

All one has to do is read the messages Bropous posted to see all there is to this conflict. It will be better if those of you who feel Bropous was wronged say nothing, since I assure you I will, until I grow tired of dealing with nonsense, correct you.

Don't support flamers like Bropous, and you'll see that Entmoot quickly returns to the civil place it once was. He's an asshole, and he is only an asshole because he chose to behave that way.

The same choice lies before you. You'll notice, if you bother to read anything I actually post, that I never attack people gratuitously the way he did.

When you lie down with poisonous snakes, you cannot avoid getting bitten. If Entmoot's regular community really wants people like Bropous hanging around here, attacking other people for no reason at all, all you have to do is keep supporting them.

[Starr Polish]

Can't we all just get along? I know that's an overused quote, but it's true. As a 'training pacifist' (I still have a temper over silly things) I hate to see people fight, especially over little things like this.

Bropous, I've read many of your replies and I feel it would be a great loss to the moot if you left. I'm new, but I've figured out that you're pretty cool.

Martinez, I haven't heard much from you, perhaps simply because I'm not interested in some of the threads you post at, but even if bropous did 'start it', there is no point in EITHER of you getting too upset.

Tsk. Such a small thing. Such a little thing.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Starr Polish

Tsk. Such a small thing. Such a little thing.

Allowing abusive behavior to go unchecked, unchallenged, is never "such a little thing".

People like Bropous have ruined many online forums through the years. They need to be dealt with swiftly and sternly. All he had to do this last time around was refrain from starting a second flame war with me. That WAS all he had promised.

And his promise wasn't even good for two days.

So, don't bother laying this at MY feet. I was ignoring him and had no intention of replying to him again until he decided it would be okay to break his word.

If you miss having someone like THAT around, you're in for some very rough times ahead as you become more involved with the Net.

[Starr Polish]

Note I said "Either of you". I am not laying this at your feet, not by a long shot. In my personal opinion, if you don't like something on a forum, ignore it. If you find it offensive, report it. That's that.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Note I said "Either of you". I am not laying this at your feet, not by a long shot. In my personal opinion, if you don't like something on a forum, ignore it. If you find it offensive, report it. That's that.

Doesn't work. Trust me. I've been dragged down this road too many times.

I WAS, after all, ignoring him anyway. And he decided to draw attention to himself. The only way to deal with flamers is to put a stop to their flames. If they want to participate in a community, they must BE a part of the community -- responsible and civil.

Otherwise, they are just bullies, pushing people around, and the more they are tolerated and supported, the more they push, and then you end up with a gang of bullies who like to verbally abuse anyone they take a disliking to. The community evaporates as other people seek out better forums.

[afro-elf]

It seems several people here have expressed dismay at the thought of losing bropous.

Personally, I like you both. I also will not get into a blame game. I think that there was situation were you BOTH could have done something better.


How about AT THIS POINT YOU BOTH IGNORE EACH OTHER.

This way the board does not suffer form the loss of either of you.

[ragamuffin92]

Afro-Elf, that was a very wise post. I think you should change your name to Afro Wizard. :)

[Starr Polish]

I agree with you completely, afro-elf.

Anyway, back to the original flow of the thread.

If dwarves are born with beards, that'd make childbirth rater...odd.

[Captain Stern]

Michael Martinez is definately not the one in the wrong here. Bropous constantly misreads people's messages and doesn't show an ounce of sensitivity when talking to people.

I'll point you out to the thread entitled 'Notes Towards Orcology' for the most extreme case of Bropous' behaviour. He completely misunderstood what Kiri the author of the thread had written and promptly proceeded to HUMILIATE him because he THOUGHT that Kiri was insulting Tolkien, which those of us who actualy read the message properly, know wasn't the case at all.

He did apologise for his actions ( or it was implied maybe ) later on in the thread. Yet the nastiness doesn't end here. In another thread he went on to call Michael Martinez' book 'not worth the paper it was printed on' or something along those lines ( Bropous hasn't read it by the way )

Again in this thread he has to be hurtful; making insults that have no basis in fact:

I kept to my promise as long as self-respect could allow. You have shown such puerile immaturity in the face of sincere desire to build bridges you are beneath contempt, and from this point on, are not worth the energy to waste words upon. Tolkien himself would throw you to the wolves as a poser, copycat, and scholar only of bathroom stall graffitti. How 'bout you actually write a book of originality instead of standing on the back of the Master? Y'ain't got it, Martinez, you never had it, and as for "quoting discarded works", it seems your entire "book" [sic] is constructed of such "cast-offs". Pot calling the kettle black, Mikey-poo. I'd rather discuss the works of Tolkien with someone of greater mental agility, such as a retarded troll.

And before people start jumping on MM for calling Bropous an 'ass hole' it should be pointed out that he didn't start to refer to Bropous as an 'ass hole' untill after he'd been the recipient of Bropous' legion of unfounded hurtful comments. One can only be civil to a point.

Some of you might remember that I had a similar argument with Michael Martinez about a year ago ( though not nearly to this scale ) I'm sorry to say that I exhibited equaly childish behaviour as Bropous. I swiftly saw the error of my ways though and accpted all blame and apologised. Well...he didn't accept my apology and I'm certain that he won't accept your's either Bropous, especialy as you keep doing the things that you so often apologise for.

[Michael Martinez]

Captain Stern, apologies are a dime a dozen. Exemplary behavior is much more appealing, and you and I have not locked horns since.

And though I am sure people may now feel it might help to leap to my defense, or to point out that Bropous actually flamed me on at least one previous occasion (he apologized then, too), it would (in my humble opinion) be best to just let this thread die.

I will eventually pay for claiming to be in command of all the facts. I have laid myself open for recrimination of a type you should all hope will never occur on this forum.

[Michael Martinez]

What I mean, Captain Stern, is that I had completely forgotten you and I had ever exchanged harsh words. I have too many other things to attend to, to remember every past fight, and have no wish to remember them. So your apology, at least, was a worthwhile one. Thank you.

[Nibs Cotton]

Although,Bropous had some interesting thoughts,and opinions(I read much more than I post.),I can see Michael's point of view.Why allow this kind behavior?I'm a member of four posting forums,and this one is the best,I've been hooked ever since I watched the movie,and searched,and found the Entmoot.It is very well organized,and virtually flame free.And it's about one of my favorite subjects.I think it's up to Michael to decide if he wants to accept his apology.I'm sure more people will side with Bropous,since he seemed sincere in his apology,but he also seemed sincere in his attack.Maybe Michael could ignore him,but seeing several "sincere" apologies,by Bropous,this looks to be a reoccuring event.

[Arathorn]

That's an interesting flame war if you ask me...unpleasant but gives the rest of us something else to read about from time to time...

keep posting if you still want to, though...because

i am always in personal need of your opinions and lore...been reading quite a bit of MM's work since I downloaded it a month ago...helps a lot in making me understand those many versions of text. i also enjoy brops' humor and inputs..

Now going back to bearded infants:

I personally think the females would be rolling in ticklish labor and therefore have no need for the hubby to coach:"Breath, you hairy lovemuffin...huh...huh...huh..."

P.S.

Afro-Elf, I personally picture you to be a groovier version of Tuvok, IMHO....

[ragamuffin92]

A few posts back, I told Afro Elf he used the wisdom of a wizard. I, on the other hand, can not be credited with the same thing. I too often take sides without knowing all the facts and history involved. So Michael, I apologize for opening my big mouth out of my own misguided ignorance. I should been more gracious. For all I knew, this feud could have gone back as far as the one bewteen the Arabs and the Israels, or the Elves and the Dwarves. I'm sorry for accusing you when I didn't know what was going on. Now, I will make the trip to see a different wizard, and I shall be singing "If I Only Had a Brain."
I still think that AfroElf's idea was the best. BOTH of you just ignore each other. BOTH!!! or it won't work.

[Starr Polish]

Ticklish labor? There's a thought! If she was rolling around, wouldn't the infant get smushed?

[ragamuffin92]

Did Dwarf birth announcements contain the following information?

Sex: Female
Weight: 4 pounds, 6 ounces
Length: 18 inches
Length of Beard: 8 inches (and forked)

[Starr Polish]

If they're born in the afternoon, would they have a three o'clock shadow?
Okay, that's bad, but hey.

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Starr Polish
Ticklish labor? There's a thought! If she was rolling around, wouldn't the infant get smushed?

Yup!...That's what I think.

In fact, I would venture that it might be one of the reasons why they are so used to the rock and..er...enclosed places...:D

[afro-elf]

Ragamuffin, thanks for the compliments.

P.S. I've heard the term ragamuffin in the reggae cirlce forever. What does it mean? I assumed ( and ya know what that does) it meant
Raga= reggae Muffin= girl

But you're male, so that crushed that particular thought.

Arathorn

In appearance and voice I look and sound exceedingly similar to Michael Dorn the actor who plays Worf.


In manner and emotions and I AM a complete composite of Worf and Tuvac.

Thus my friends often call be Warvoc.

[luinilwen]

giving birth to bearded babies? i dunno...

all i can say is that's one hell of a place to get beard rash! :) *blush*

[Arathorn]

Afro elf:

Er...Warvoc....

Turf sounds better IMHO... ;)

luinilwen:

I think that tops it for me...:eek:

[ragamuffin92]

Gotta run, so I'll have to give you the long answer later, but a ragamuffin is a name for a person who has nothing.

[bropous]

Well, I've read the comments and, advice unheeded is advice discarded [even Captain Stern's comments taken to heart]. Getting into who-did-what-to-whom-first ain't getting anyone of us anywhere, and ain't what the board is about. It's about Tolkien, and I'll keep that in mind. Ignore function enabled. A self-imposed "time out" up in the mountains is probably also a good idea. Fresh air, newly fallen snow, ice-enrobed waterfalls are all wonderfully rejuvenative to good will and general being a good guy.

As for dwarf beards and childbirth, the mental images are just really yukky. ;)

Okay, so here's another angle: Aule created the seven Dwarf Lords, but they were put to sleep and distributed to "divers" locales to await the awakening of the Firstborn. ZO, "where the dwarf women at?" How did these Seven Dwarf fathers become fathers if no mention [as far as I can find so far {oooo, great qualification of inquiry}] is made of the creation of the dwarf women? Is this anywhere made more clear than the issue of where Cain's wife came from?

Again, thanks for the advice, no matter what stance one took.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by ragamuffin92
Gotta run, so I'll have to give you the long answer later, but a ragamuffin is a name for a person who has nothing. My mom use to say that that was what we looked like after we had been outside playing all day. Doesn't it refer to a child that has nothing, especially in the way of clothes. They are rags. a very poor child perhaps orphaned?

[ragamuffin92]

EXACTLY, Sister Golden Hair. :)

[bropous]

A had also thought that too, SisterGoldenHair and ragamuffin92, that a "raggamuffin" was a gutter-snipe without any possessions. [no offense, ragamuffin92 *wink!*].

Now try to define a "bropous"...... and it ain't a dwarf woman's beard! LOL!

[Vardasoroniel]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez
. . . provided a citation from an abandoned text, which was superseded by a text which deliberately omitted all reference to Dwarves being bearded from birth.

on the question of dwarves, not only are femaels rarely mentioned, but so also are any references to young children, or for that matter to any sort of family unit.(is there?)

also, if their beards are not associated with the changes of puberty and the advance into adulthood, i see no reason why facial hair could not be one of the characteristics of dwarven babies.

[ragamuffin92]

No offense taken, and, it's accurate, in a way. I got the name from my favorite Christian singer/songwriter of the past 10 years, the late Rich Mullins. He called his back-up musicians "a ragamuffin band," (lower case letters intentional), since EVERYONE is a ragamuffin in God's eyes. I know you are an atheist, so I'll leave it at that. :)

[ragamuffin92]

Dwarves were supposedly so reclusive and secretive, they had a LOT of secrets.

[afro-elf]

Thanks for the Ragamuffin info.

As far as the meaning of bropous:

of ebonic derivation

1) a black porpoise

2) black purpose

[bropous]

LOL, afro-elf, a black sheep, maybe but not a black porpoise!

[luinilwen]

anyone who's got a copy of the silmarillion can figure out what my name means :D

bropous isn't in the french dictionary. however, afro-elf, considering it IS a french name, the 's' is silent. so if we were to go along your train of thought it would be more like "black poo" and that's just silly (also doesn't sound too healthy) :) :) :) sorry black doody *tsk tsk*

sorry if i offend anyone who is anti-doody (does any country other then america even use that term?) or anyone with a brain :D that is all.

[afro-elf]

I actually considered the Francophone version but I declinced.

I have traveled a lot and I think that the words, boo boo, ka ka, dookie, poo poo and do do seem to be a part of the human langauge genome.

Similarly, bum, bom bom, bomba etc seems to also be encoded the same way.

:)

[bropous]

Okay, okay:

"bro" = shortened version of "brother"

"pous" = pronounced "poo" = it's a secret. ;)

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Vardasoroniel
on the question of dwarves, not only are femaels rarely mentioned, but so also are any references to young children, or for that matter to any sort of family unit.(is there?)

If there is one thing that is fairly well documented, it's the family history of the Kings of Durin's Folk for the last 1000 years of the Third Age.

also, if their beards are not associated with the changes of puberty and the advance into adulthood, i see no reason why facial hair could not be one of the characteristics of dwarven babies.

Tolkien abandoned the idea.