Who made up the White Council?

[Mandos]

Who was everyone in the White Council? The only ones I could think of would be Gandalf, Saruman, Elrond, Galadriel, and Cirdan. Would there be any others?

[Inoldonil]

Radagast was a member. I believe others of Elrond's household were included, such as Erestor his chief councilor. Also there is Glorfindel, and Celeborn The Wise. Most of the Council was made up of Elves.

[Mace McClain]

I think thats right. Its been a few months since I read LOTR, and I sorta skimmed the White Council part.

[Prince Faramir]

we've had this post about 19 times just look back a few months and you'll see all the theories u want to know....

[anduin]

Oh really? Hmmmm, does that sound familar Ben? :p ;)

[Mace McClain]

Humm...just a little;)

[bmilder]

Well to tell the truth I never liked the first one (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fbenjaminstolkienboardlordoftheringsbooks.showMess age?topicID=16.topic) because it started out with an ignorant post by me :p .

[Valandil]

I was just wondering about this last night - and did a search and found 'this ole thread'... :)

Does Tolkien say anything definitive about just who was on the White Council? Was it limited to the Three Istari of western Middle-earth, plus Elrond, Galadriel and maybe Cirdan? Was Celeborn a member? Thrainduil? Amroth and the Blue Istari - while they were still around (dang - don't have RotK on hand to see if it says when the WC was formed)? Others - like Glorfindel and other powerful Elves of Imladris?

Also... how do you think they 'fought'? In what way did they drive Sauron out of Dol Guldor in 2941? Use their rings to make things uncomfortably 'nice and Elvish' in the area? Are there other powers of the Three Rings which they could have used? Did they bring Elven armies from Linden, Lorien and Imladris?

[Rían]

Originally posted by Valandil
Also... how do you think they 'fought'? In what way did they drive Sauron out of Dol Guldor in 2941? Use their rings to make things uncomfortably 'nice and Elvish' in the area? Are there other powers of the Three Rings which they could have used? Did they bring Elven armies from Linden, Lorien and Imladris? What, haven't you seen the movie? Gandalf bops people with his staff! :rolleyes:

(tho I like your idea of makig things uncomfortably 'nice and Elvish' ... Sauron: "Hey! Who put those flowers in my dungeon?!?!?! I can't stand it anymore - I'm OUTTA here!"

[Olmer]

Originally posted by Valandil

Does Tolkien say anything definitive about just who was on the White Council? (dang - don't have RotK on hand to see if it says when the WC was formed)?
Also... how do you think they 'fought'? In what way did they drive Sauron out of Dol Guldor in 2941?

Galadriel requested the White Council to get together, not vice versa, which was summoned in 2463 Third Age. "I it was who first summoned the White Council, an if MY designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey.."(The Fellowhip of the Ring).
SHE summoned the most powerful Eldar and Maiar to the council.
And from the begining nobody was missing, all 5 Istari was present, because Saruman was elected as the leader of Istari by 5 attending wizards and the head of White Council by its all members (Galadriel, Elrond,maybe Cirdan, Thranduil (?), I don’t think that Celeborn has been considered by Galadriel to be too wise for such task:rolleyes: ) . At that time ,I assume, everybody offered theirs own plan of the Middle -earth salvation, including Galadriel's "design".
It's later, when everybody roles had been determined, she found no use of others 3 wizards and conveniently forgot to include them in future councils.

My IMHO that it was no ANY conflict over there, and they didn’t fight with Sauron at all.We already talked about it, so I just copy my previous posting.

"Doesn’t seems odd that such evil fortress had been built in the middle of Elves realm and in very close proximity to Lorien and allowed to stay for 2000 years?
Why such experienced in warfare leaders as Celeborn and Thranduil didn’t try to erase this obvious germinator of trouble?
From the strategic point of view this enemy's fortress should be erased with the first upcoming opportunity. But they didn’t do so, even when it was deserted, and no surprise 300 years later “Sauron returns with increased strength”.
In 2941 Sauron again “abandons Dol Guldur“ (LOTR. App. B), because “the Council put forth its strength and drove the evil out of Mirkwood “ (LOTR, book II, chp. II)
Now everybody knows who has a summer residence here and the claim that they clear the Mirkwood of the evil would be believable , if the fortress has been leveled to the ground, as Elendil did to the Dark Tower. But it was left untouched and just 10 years later in 2951 Dol Guldur got reoccupied by Nazgul !

You can’t make the same such fatal mistakes over and over again! It has to be some other explanation, and everything falls in place if you assume the existence of the peace agreement between Sauron and the Elves.
Did you know that this fortress was built at the time when Gondor reached the height of its power , conquered the Harad and was extending area of dominion?
The whole history of Dol Guldur suggests that at the beginning Sauron had been considered as a counterweight to growing in power Gondor.

Well, as usual he had his own plans to procreate ...He was cooperating, not for the first time , by the way.
When it became obvious that he gathered enough power to stand against Gondor, under the pressure of White Council he was just "squeezed out" to much closer vicinity of Gondor.
No conflict, no striving, no bloodshed, just friendly advise from the friendly Council. “:)

[Twista]

How do you have so much free time Olmer? lol

Im very impressed with your insites...

:)

[Radagast The Brown]

In Unfinished Tales, Gandalf specifically says 'to attack Dol Guldur'. (I can't quote it because I don't have UT in English)
I think the White Council simply didn't think the shadow on Mirkwood was important or dangerous; and only realised it was so after Gandalf sneaked into Dol Guldur. Then Saruman didn't agree to attack Sauron, because of his motives. Saruman after some years was afraid Sauron will find the Ring before him so he decided to support the attack. Which was too late - as Sauron was already ready for that.

[Lefty Scaevola]

The real power behind the white council were the Illuminati.

[Olmer]

Originally posted by Twista
How do you have so much free time Olmer? lol

Im very impressed with your insites...

:)
Actually, I don't have too much time. But I'm a freelancer and that helps. At least early morning and late night I can dedicate to whatever pleases me:) .
Most of my postings I'm copying from my computer's notes: saves the time.
This is my hobby. After 3 years all my books covered with pencil marks and different highlights and I'm still "digging".


My insites didn't "grow overnight" and the whole idea that if you will study the text you will find out that Tolkien's "recorded" history of the War of the Ring is much deeper, than how it look on the surface, from the beginning was too alien to me.(I am too fond of elves and and old brave Gandalf.)
But after carefull reading and rereading and finding out that is , indeed, something in there , it impressed me and , as Tolkien would say "consumed him".:cool:

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Olmer
And from the begining nobody was missing, all 5 Istari was present, because Saruman was elected as the leader of Istari by 5 attending wizards and the head of White Council by its all members (Galadriel, Elrond,maybe Cirdan, Thranduil (?), I don’t think that Celeborn has been considered by Galadriel to be too wise for such task:rolleyes: ) . At that time ,I assume, everybody offered theirs own plan of the Middle -earth salvation, including Galadriel's "design".
It's later, when everybody roles had been determined, she found no use of others 3 wizards and conveniently forgot to include them in future councils.


I would be happy to know your sources on this concerning Radagast and the Blue wizards, Olmer.

[Twista]

Posted by Olmer
Most of my postings I'm copying from my computer's notes: saves the time.

How many notes do you have?

Maybe you should make a online refernce?

[Count Comfect]

The White Council is formed 400 years (exactly... interesting) after Gandalf "goes to" (Appendix B) Dol Guldur. Before that we get references to only "the Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar)" (Appendix B).

However, it isn't until 2850, when Gandalf reenters Dol Guldur, that he makes sure it is Sauron there... even though they'd suspected as early as 2060! The second recorded White Council meeting I find is in 2851, where Saruman prevents an attack on DG.

They meet again in 2941, and Saruman agrees to attack DG, since he doesn't want Sauron searching the River for the Ring. Sauron "abandons" DG, "having made his plans." (Doesn't sound like he's driven out, btw... just retreated).

The last one (and only the fourth explicitly mentioned) is in 2953 when Saruman lies and says the Ring is in the Sea.

That is all I could find in LOTR Appendices (I lack any of the posthumous works to check them out)... I see no explicit mention of either who is on the council (other than Saruman, Gandalf, and, as Olmer mentioned, Galadriel). "The Wise" is a safe assumption, but it is not specific either. And they seem pretty much like an isolationist's view of the UN: a nice gesture of cooperation, but with minimal actual action.

But a key point - they didn't know it was Sauron until 2850... so it wasn't that big a threat.

[Olmer]

Originally posted by Kirinki54
I would be happy to know your sources on this concerning Radagast and the Blue wizards, Olmer.
How I came to conclusion that Saruman was elected by 5 Istari?
By using common sense.
I made a mistake saying that Saruman was elected as chief Istari at the White Council. He was elected much earlier, I guess upon arrival of all wizards.
Of these Gurunir was the eldest and came first, and after him came…others of Istari.(Sil.) Being eldest not automatically labels you as the wisest, such entitlement could be given by communal agreement on decision which one of the two highest of this order…(Appendix B)(Saruman or Gandalf) … is great among the Wise(FOTR) and could be named the Chief of the order.
So, from the beginning at the meeting in 1100 of the Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar)nobody was missing and for quite awhile all wizards were honestly tried to help in theirs own fashion.
In former days the members of my order had been well received there, but Saruman most of all “ (FOTR. Book II) , said Gandalf about other wizards visiting the Great city of Gondor.What tells us that OTHER than Gandalf and Saruman, wizards, had been around there for quite some time, I think until the time when the White Council was formed and the help of 3 other Istari was politely denied.

[Lizra]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
The real power behind the white council were the Illuminati. [/QUOTE

Is that a palantir? Maybe they were so busy "playing" with their new toys...they forgot about getting rid of Sauron? ;)

[Nurvingiel]

So I guess we didn't really find the answer to this? Is the member list of the White Council (WC :D ) published anywhere?

I found this thread because I was searching for something to tell me if Celeborn was a member of the Council. I was under the impression that he was regarded as very wise.

[Pytt]

In the movie at least, Galadriel calls him something about the wisest. Don't remember clearly, a bit since I've seen them. But that might very well be PJ, long time since I've read them too.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

I would include the following:
Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, Pallando
Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Glorfindel, Cirdan,
Erestor, Elrohir, Elladan, Thranduil,
plus any other elves that i can't htink of right now

[Nurvingiel]

How can Allatar and Pallando be in it? They went off into the east on some mysterious errand, never to be heard from again AFAIK.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

in spiwit
sorry sir?
spiwit, bwavado
ah yes sir, half past ten

in all seriousness, tho, without knowledge of chronology to hand, i put them in , if they were around when t'were formed:)but i am often wrong :D

[Manveru]

i dont think they were in it. seems to me they just went off into the east pretty much as soon as they landed and didnt hang around in the west too long. maybe they formed their own blue council in the east with some wise leaders of easterling nations. :D
or maybe its because they couldnt get into the white council that they went to the east. all the other wise made fun of them and wouldnt let them in their cliques so they went off on their own :D

[Earniel]

I would include the following:
Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, Pallando
Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Glorfindel, Cirdan,
Erestor, Elrohir, Elladan, Thranduil,
plus any other elves that i can't htink of right now
Going on feeling, I'd say the Council was a lot smaller. I'd say, the three remaining wizards and the three bearers of the Elven Rings. And maybe Thranduil.

[Olmer]

Going on feeling, I'd say the Council was a lot smaller. I'd say, the three remaining wizards and the three bearers of the Elven Rings. And maybe Thranduil.
Yeh. It was smaller, but not THAT small. I think, we can safely deduct Celeborn, Elrohir and Elladan. :)
First of it, the Council existed even before the Rings and before arrival of Istari .With their inclusion( to be exact, with EXCLUSION of some members) the Council was just renamed into the White.
So, from the beginning in 1100 all Istari was present at the meeting of the Wise . :…”it was after the White Council in the South ( Gondor? Dol Amroth?) ... There was much talk of rings at the Council: even wizards have much to learn as long as they live.
Some (rings) no more than toys, and not difficult to contrive if you go in for such things.”(HOME.Treason of Isengard” The 4th phase)…
As C. Tolkien suggested, that other wizards were looking for the rings. And I think this why Allatar and Pallando, before venturing to the East, were hanging around for quite awhile, mostly in southern part of ME, particularly in Gondor."In former days the members of my order had been well received there, but Saruman most of all “ (FOTR. Book II)