Costumes

[CardenIAntauraNauco]

How elaborate will the costumes and props be as compared to the Movie?

[hama]

I think they will be equivalent if not a bit more elaborate by necessity. A stage version will lack the advantages of the film's use of CGI and and epic scale of the scenery. Therefore the costmues and props will have to be very elaborate to make up for that. Also, the sets and lighting will have to be very cutting edge using hydraulics and special effects to the utmost. Fortunately, I won't have to grapple with those problems...I just wrote the thing. I think the most difficult scene to bring off will be the Bridge of Kazadum and the battle with and portrayal of the Balrog. One of the scenes I am most excited about seeing on stage is The Paths of the Dead and army of the dead coming to the Stone of Erech.

Film has the advantage of having multiple takes to get a scene right once. Obviously on stage it has to be done right every time, multiple times a week.

[CardenIAntauraNauco]

You need to sell paterns of the clothes you(by you I mean those involved in the production) make. I would buy some.

[hama]

Ahh merchandising ideas already! I like it. For now I am going to focus on finding a producer and getting the money raised (a musical is very cheap by Hollywood standards).

[Agburanar]

Big sets, big costumes, long run. The army of the dead, eh? That'll be a challenge. Not smoke or dry ice, too cliche'd but there's a good trick with mirrors, called 'Fuller's ghost' I believe, which could be good, or you could use air jets placed around the auiditorium that when an unseen soldier spoke the jets would go on and off with the speech, that'd creep out the audience!

[hama]

Originally posted by Agburanar
Big sets, big costumes, long run. The army of the dead, eh? That'll be a challenge. Not smoke or dry ice, too cliche'd but there's a good trick with mirrors, called 'Fuller's ghost' I believe, which could be good, or you could use air jets placed around the auiditorium that when an unseen soldier spoke the jets would go on and off with the speech, that'd creep out the audience!

Well big sets and costumes didn't save Sunset Boulevard but then I think The One Ring has more than one good song! :p
I am not aware of "Fuller's ghosts". Could you explain more fully? I like the air jet idea. Their might be others that could be used that directly effected the audience in other scenes...like the mines of Moria. I do want the army of the dead represented with disembodied glowing eyes and ancient weapons and tattered banners floating in the background. Come on Ag! You can do it!

[Agburanar]

For the Fullers ghost idea a group of people acting as the ghosts (with appropriate glowing eye technology and tattered banners) stand eithere above or below the stage and by a series of mirrors and lighting effects their images are reflected onto and appropriate background (dense smoke machine smoke is supposed to be good) giving an almost transparent look. The eyes would still glow because light angled directly at the mirrors would come across clearer (anyone who has tried this technique should correct me if I'm wrong). Shakespearean plays in Shakespeare's time used this technique for their ghost scenes, and if their technology could do it why can't ours?

[hama]

That sounds fantastic...literally and figuratively. My thought might be to have the eyes and staffs, banners etc. actually be set peices set in a grid that would be concealed by the smoke that the "ghosts" would be projected on.

Also, what do you think of the idea for the battle scenes if we actually filmed and computer enhanced the background scenes, projected them on a scrim with the live action downstage in the foreground? Would that look too cheezy, or has the technology advanced enough to pull it off?

[Agburanar]

It would work. If that can be arranged it would be fantastic, many musicals nowadays do use video footage to liven up and bulk out scenes.

[Agburanar]

I had a thought (cheers and cries of "at last!").

How about having screens running down the side aisles of the auditorium, then you could have filmed armies crashing into each other on either side of the audience! It'd be good as long as you don't use the sequences from the film!

[hama]

I think that screens down the sides of the theatre could be used to enhance a lot of scenes. The misty mountains, shelob's lair and even the last battle at the black gate. But once you started using it I think you would have too coninue it throughout the show and not just have them go blank for stretches at a time.

[Agburanar]

Unless you projected an image of the side wall of the theatre and had the armies/winged Nazgul/Horses(!!!!!) etc. galloping against that background, then nobody would notice if nothing happened there for a while. You don't want it to draw attention away from the stage.

I don't know if blue-screen technology has advance that far, but the images would be moving at such a speed it may not matter.

[hama]

I think it is a great idea worthy of exploration. If the movement on the screen led to the stage and led the audiences atttention to focus on the stage it wouldn't then matter if the screens went blank. It would be awseome if some element or elements in live action could enter the stage in syncronization with the projected images to create a seamless transition.

[Agburanar]

Definately!

Here's another thought I had for Moria:

What if the 'drums in the deep' were produced through speakers below the audience's seats? With the drumming rolling below them and the battle with the Balrog up high on the Procenium the audience would have to get a feel for the vastness of these mines.

Going back to the screen idea, I presume you've given quite some thought to the ring's destruction scene? How about having larva projected as sliding down beside the audience's seats and filling the stage with smoke, perhaps behind a gauze on which an image of Barad-dur collapsing is projected. You could use on-stage lighting and gobos etc. to create some really good shadows and make it as unclear and chaotic for the audience as it is for readers of the book? You're not quite sure what's really happened and is going to happen until the Hobbits wake up in Ithilien.

[hama]

I like the speaker under the seats idea...of course we may have a problem with the speakers shorting out as little old ladies in the audience pee themselves...matinees could get rather messy.

Larvae sliding down? You have a sick and twisted mind. I KNEW I liked you. Something along the lines you describe sounds awesome.

[Agburanar]

I should state that I said Larva, as in molten rock, not Larvae as in maggots! However that would be suitably chaotic, shudder!

[hama]

Or perhaps lava?

[Agburanar]

Yarr. Oi do be fergettin' wot yoo iz writin' from America! In Ye Olde England we spells it Larva loike!

[Darth Tater]

Hama, I was reading the script and while I was reading the balrog scene all I could think was "This is awesome, how the hell is it gonna work on the stage?" one thing is if youw ant people happy it's gotta be as big as humanly possible, as in the balrog filling the whole stage. Maybe an animatronic that is filled with air or something so it can shrink down easilly, or what that can fold up? I dunno, but ti's gotta be awesome!

[azalea]

It could possibly be done with a projector, that way it could be very big, but eliminate the problem of getting something on and off stage. Or it could be done as a shadow puppet (I know that sounds silly, but shadow puppetry can be very elaborate).
Really it could be done with an actor backstage and a light shining behind him onto a large screen; he acts as the Balrog, but the audience sees only the big black shadow shape.

[Agburanar]

You've gone for the shadowy approach I see, like in the animated film. When I was thinking of deisgns for this scene I envisaged the Balrog as a creature of fire and so it was formed from flame jets spouting from the bridge of Khazad-Dum. This would allow the actors to interact more and the heat would really cause them to sweat, eliminating the need for dodgy "It's hot" acting.

[hama]

Azalea, all your ideas are good ones. I haven't really figured it out but then luckily that isn't my problem. I make no claim of being a designer, either sets, costumes or "special effects". However, I think for the scene to have the dramatic tension I am looking for, the confrontation between Gandalf and the Balrog will have to be between two corporeal or at least seemingly corporeal beings. Gandalf must appear to be face to face with the Balrog.

[Galenavar]

...the confrontation between Gandalf and the Balrog will have to be between two corporeal or at least seemingly corporeal beings. Gandalf must appear to be face to face with the Balrog.

What if you combined the non-corporeal with something corpreal? Whether it be person in a costume on a ladder to a big wooden figure, just so that there is something there. It could be defined enough so that the audience knows that there is a Balrog standing there, yet vague enough for the imagination to take over, with some help from smoke, shadows, trick lighting, etc.

[Agburanar]

On stilts!!!! He hehehe. I can imagine somebody up stilts coming out of smoke with plastic horns and red lighting...

"You shall not pass!"
"Raarghhh, oh no-oooooooooooooo"

Balrog exits stage down...

[hama1]

Come now agburanur...be nice. Not everyone has either your talent, imagination and/or training. ...including me.

BTW have you read the rest of the script?

[Agburanar]

hehehe.... guess who switched the ring when Frodo was staying at Henneth Annun. Now I am the master...

Sorry. I dunno where that came from.

[Elrénia]

I know that this doesn't help you with the musical but could you tell me if you know when and where the musical would be taking place. Me and my friends would love to see it.

[hama1]

Actually knowing that people want to see it DOES help me with the musical. Certainly it helps my motivztion in doing more to get it produced. No news on that front but I will keep you "posted."

[Shadowfax]

If you want a site that has done really EXTENSIVE research on the LotR movie costumes (they have done soooo much research-WOW!!), then go to http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ . They pay so much attention to details, have TONS of pictures and sketches, and can help you with patterns, etc. They also have makeup sections (including how to make ears), where to find wigs, making shoes, and so much more including a message board on yahoo where you can ask questions.

**This may sound like advertising but I can assure you that I am in no way affiliated with this site, I'm just sharing it so others can use their resources.:)

[hama1]

Shadowfax,

Thanks...I and I am sure others will check it out.

Brad

[hama1]

shadowfax,

Can you check that url? I couldn't connect to it.

Thanks

[Shadowfax]

The URL works fine for me; maybe their server was down or something. Here it is again though: http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/ Hope it works for you!:)

[Beleg Strongbow]

worked for me. Wow, and I thought we were obsessed...

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
and I thought we were obsessed... No kidding. Totally agree with you there! They have researched every pattern, fabric type, embroidery, beads on dresses, etc, even down to where the seams are put! Yeah. Really helpful in making your own stuff. And you have to check out their section on making elf ears. From what I've heard & seen, they turn out excellent using their method.
Hama1, has it worked for you yet?

[Agburanar]

Okay, materials and methods, fine. But please don't let anyone producing this musical turn it into a stage version of the film, that would be truly even more dreadful than the film itself!

[hama1]

LOL Agburanur...Little risk of this being a musical version of the film. My script was finished or at least in its 6th or 7th draft before I even knew there was going to be a movie. Shadowfax...yes, the link worked and I was fascinated by the site. But hey I just write these things. It is up to other people to bring them to life on stage.

Hama

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
And you have to check out their section on making elf ears. From what I've heard & seen, they turn out excellent using their method.

I saw... But using band-aids? :confused:

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I guess the costumes would be similar to those used in the film!
But yeah to make them taller they would have to use stilts or something!! The Hobbits would have to crawl around on their knees too!
And have those Pantomime horses!! lol!

[hama1]

Actually Varda this has all been discussed earlier but for your benefit...the actors protraying elves and humans will all be 6 ft or taller for males and 5'10" for females. The hobbits and gimli will be portrayed by actors 5'2" or shorter. Also with a raked or sloped stage, given the proper postitioning or staging of the actors will enhance the impression of height differential in the minds of the audience. As for pantomime horses, as I am sure you aware from reading the scrip, that I have adapted the scenes with horses to eliminate them from being on stage.

[Varda Oiolosseo]

I'm sorry!!

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
I saw... But using band-aids? :confused: Yeah, there's that, which I don't recommend, or you can use this method of theirs: http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Article/Ears.htm which is MUCH better (& more difficult)

[Agburanar]

You've got to remember this is a stage show, there aren't any close ups. Therefore it really doesn't matter about ear shape, it's gonna be hard for most people to see them clearly from their seats.

[Shadowfax]

I know but I thought it was cool how they on that site have so much info, even how to make decent ears.

I'm sure this musical is going to be AWESOME!

[Beleg Strongbow]

yes, I agree. That's how they made the ears in the movie, too!
I read that since the gelatin ears melt under hot lights, they had to keep making new ones for each scene!

[Agburanar]

I read that real elves' ears melt under strong lights too! Maybe that's why PJ had to use cheap imitaion actors!

[Legoles]

Originally posted by hama
Ahh merchandising ideas already! I like it. For now I am going to focus on finding a producer and getting the money raised (a musical is very cheap by Hollywood standards).

Make the costumes EXTREMELY elaborate
:) :) :D :D :D