View Full Version : symbolism
Varda
12-15-2001, 01:12 AM
what does the ring symbolize? greed/lust for power/money/fortune? does frodo's quest have any little morals tied in, do you think? or is it merely a fabulous adventure story?
Churl
12-15-2001, 02:48 AM
And you want those answers in 50 words or less, right? ;)
I'm anxious to read others' responses … after all, Masters and Doctoral theses have been written about each one of your questions alone! This should be a good thread.
My personal response to each is kind of a non-answer. (Sorry!)
I believe that each reader draws different things from The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien himself said that he didn't like allegory, and that (at least to him) the War of the Ring did not directly parallel World War II, or anything else for that matter. Still, we can't help but wonder what symbolism was intended by Tolkien, as opposed to that which we read in ourselves.
Possibly people who have read the letters and/or the histories have better insight…?
Bombadil's PR Guy
12-15-2001, 11:54 AM
Varda-what does the ring symbolize? greed/lust for power/money/fortune? does frodo's quest have any little morals tied in, do you think? or is it merely a fabulous adventure story?
Although Tolkien steadfastly asserted his loathing of allegory and moral agendas presented in the guise of story-telling, his work's portrayals of good and evil could not be so compelling had they been put forth by a morally indifferent author. Certainly, his vision is much grander than a George Orwell, so concerned about the facist movement; Tolkien's work is not subject to falling in and out of favor based on a current political climate. It is unavoidable to read Tolkien without seeing his work as a vast commentary regarding the human condition, past, present, & future. Depiction of such human shortcomings as greed, vanity, lack of perception, & impulsive decision-making are everywhere, and are shown to lead to downfall, as virtue is rewarded.
I believe that Varda's got the ring's symbolism nailed in a nutshell. Power/money/fortune really can be considered one entity. Perhaps Borimar's folly, thinking he could use the ring to defeat Mordor can be viewed as a lesson of how we rationalize the acquisition of power/money/fortune, justifying our greed by making claims of serving the greater good. Similar perhaps to the justification for slavery bringing order & christianity to the heathens, but becoming irreversably dependent upon the slave system, just as Frodo became so attached to the ring that he wouldn't have cast it into the fire.
So how then, do we interpret the ending? Was Frodo really such a hero, since only Gollum's intervention led to the ring's destruction? Could this in fact be seen as the Devine Plan (in the Music of Illuvator) turning the selfish narrow purposes of Gollum toward the ultimate good? Otherwise, didn't the success of the mission depend upon a fluke, which leads to accusations of a fabricated resolution (deus ex machina)?
Darth Tater
12-15-2001, 12:56 PM
I'm not gonna answer the question. Rather, I'll simply tell you that when asked, Tolkien said the theme of this story (and, according to him, every human story) is "death".
Bacchus
12-15-2001, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Bombadil's PR Guy
So how then, do we interpret the ending? Was Frodo really such a hero, since only Gollum's intervention led to the ring's destruction? Could this in fact be seen as the Devine Plan (in the Music of Illuvator) turning the selfish narrow purposes of Gollum toward the ultimate good? Otherwise, didn't the success of the mission depend upon a fluke, which leads to accusations of a fabricated resolution (deus ex machina)?
Tolkien discusses this issue at length in Letter 246. The gist of the discussion is that Frodo's heroism is in no way diminished by his ultimate failure to destroy the Ring. His heroism lies rather in his sacrifice beyond all human capability merely to reach the Sammath Naur, and in his surrender to Providence (in the form of Gollum) at the penultimate monent.
Play Girl
12-15-2001, 04:28 PM
I thought the ring symbolised life.
I liked how all the story never really finishes yet it could in several places it just goes on and on ending back where it started but with a different hobbit living quite happily in mad old bagginses hobbit hole.
Play Girl
Kyote Fields
12-20-2001, 01:21 PM
Art, I believe, is in the eye of the beholder. If you look at a book/picture/painting/peice of music and want to see a reason or a deeper meaning behind it all, you probably will. That's why I can listen to The Beatle's White Album and not feel like I have to go kill someone Helter Skelter, Mr. Manson.
John Cleese of Monty Python, after they had broadcast the famous "Parrot sketch", was approached by a man who asked him, "That parrot sketch, That was a protest against the Viet-nam war, wasn't it?"
People will see, hear and believe what they will.
I don't like interpreting the Trilogy. For me, it needs no symbolism to be enjoyed or to be great. I mean, it's a great adventure story, right? Unlike the Bible or 1984 or so many other books symbolism isn't necessary. But without interpretation the Bible would kinda lose its power and what would be the point of 1984? However . . .
Darth Tater said: I'm not gonna answer the question. Rather, I'll simply tell you that when asked, Tolkien said the theme of this story (and, according to him, every human story) is "death".
Cool! Tolkien said that?! What a guy! What an idea. :D Now I just need to figure out what that means. Or maybe not. It's vacation and my brain is running on its lowest gear.
Wayfarer
12-27-2001, 02:54 PM
the ring represents gold, hammered and forged into a vaguely circular shape, with a hole in the middle, and magical tendwar on it.
Doesn't it?
I like Wayfarer's interpretation. Right on the money - unless you want to draw some life lesson or moral(s) from the Trilogy. I'm not at all against that, I just don't enjoy analyzing the Trilogy as much as other works of literature, such as the Hebrew Bible (otherwise known as the Old Testament).
CardenIAntauraNauco
12-30-2001, 02:30 AM
Tolkien has said again and again that is was no more symbolic than the literal translations. People used to think it represented WWII. Which he said was not true. So as far as Tolkien intentions go he did not intend for their to be a meaning (as far as I know).
But I think one can put one's own meaning to it. Like Kyote Fields said Art of any kind is in the eye of the beholder.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.