non noldar greats

[afro-elf]

the noldar were the greatest of the elves

where there any non noldar who may have rivaled them

thingol does not count because he was "technically" calaquendi

perhaps cirdan and beleg

anyone else you can think of?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by afro-elf
the noldar were the greatest of the elves

where there any non noldar who may have rivaled them

thingol does not count because he was "technically" calaquendi

perhaps cirdan and beleg

anyone else you can think of? I take it that your question is to compare other Elves to the Noldor. Correct? So, this can not include men? OK. How about Luthien.

[afro-elf]

I take it that your question is to compare other Elves to the Noldor. Correct? So, this can not include men? OK. How about Luthien.


correct but i meant the so called "lesser" elves

luthien is 1/2 maia and 1/2 calaquendi she is BETTER than the noldar

[Wayfarer]

The noldor weren't the best of the elves.

The vanyur were better. and to my mind so were most of the teleri (sans thingol).

Feanor was the greatest elf craftsman, and fingolfin was the greatest lord, but that doesn't hold true for all thier people.

In fact, i'll bet that the noldor would have been pretty pathetic with different leadership.

[Ñólendil]

It is said in many places that the Amanyar were far enhanced in powers from their kin in Middle-earth, and somewhere Tolkien names the Ñoldor as the most gifted of the Eldar. I don't know if that makes them 'best', or if any race can be 'better' than another.

[afro-elf]

ok let's try this again

of the elves of ME

the vanyar were in valinor



lets say in basic terms

it seems that the noldar in ME could wipe the floor against the others elves

is this basically true?

excluding the descendants of of finwe who seem to all be major butt kickers

if ecthelion,glorfindel, gwindor(pre-capture)
where to go up against sindar or silvan

i get the feeeling they would win hands down

[Ñólendil]

As far as battle goes, with equal numbers on both sides, I don't doubt any army of Light Elves could defeat Grey-elves, or Grey-elves defeat Wood-elves.

[afro-elf]

i mentioned 3 noldar lords


were there ANY grey or silvan elves who could stand against those there one on one?


what about" normal" noldar like voronwe,arminas, and edrahil



to my limited knowledge it seems only beleg, cirdan, and mablung come close

[Xivigg]

Celeborn ??

he's sindar if i remember well

Elrond/Elros
Eladan/Elrohir

Also some Human were mighty Enough to stand held agains't any elves

[afro-elf]

i was in a toss up about celeborn

but i'll concede

as to the mixed race

i'll concede too

[Sister Golden Hair]

Legolas?

[afro-elf]

i love legolas

but i think if he went against anyone mentioned above, quick he would be in the halls of mandos

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by afro-elf
i love legolas

but i think if he went against anyone mentioned above, quick he would be in the halls of mandos Not so sure about that. I would think that Legolas had learned a lot from the Noldor, I think especially after the quest of the ring that he was probably formidable.

[afro-elf]

i don't think he was around the noldar long enough to gain in innate power

i think a lot of of the calaquendi power comes from living in aman

he could just hide in the forest and use the bow of lorien to pick the guys off :)

i'm quite should YOUR noldor love would have no problem with him

i repeat i love legolas but i don't think the other mentioned above would have gone

ai ai a balrog has come

i think they would have engaged it

[Sister Golden Hair]

Finrod and Legolas would definately be an unfair match.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by afro-elf
i think a lot of of the calaquendi power comes from living in aman


You have a point there, Afro-elf.

The Sil does say:
"The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible."

[Elvellon]

It is true that the Sindar and other elven peoples were no equals to the noldor in power, but I am not so sure about how great were the differences. Just a few examples; Mablung and Cu Beleg were counted among the greatest warriors of the eldar, they were of the sindar. You also have Eol, the Dark Elf, probably the greatest maker of swords among the elves. Oropher created a kingdom that outlasted the noldorim ones, A kingdom that started during the 2nd Era and lasted well into the 4th Era. And remember, the Silmarillion mostly gives the Noldor and Edain perspective, we only know a few of the Sindarim lords and even less of other peoples.

[afro-elf]

kirinski54

i found an answer to a question on another thread but i couldn't find the thread again

it was about the vikings using blue to describe dark skinned people

i asked a swedish friend of mine and she said that there is a swedish word that uses blue as a color for dark skinned people

[rashbold]

afro-elf, it's Ñoldor, not Noldar, the initial n pronounced like the back nasal ng as in king or ring. I wrote the n with a tilde (~) as Tolkien himself wrote it that way in many of his writings (although he also used special forms of the letter n as well). It was only pronounced n during the Third Age in Gondor when they were rather careless in pronouncing Quenya. Come to think of it, they were rather careless in pronouncing Sindarin as well: consider Rohan. The classical way to pronounce it is with the h like a the spirant k (kh/ch) as in ach, loch, and the final n pronounced long: thus Rochann.

[afro-elf]

correction is noted

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by afro-elf
kirinski54

i found an answer to a question on another thread but i couldn't find the thread again

it was about the vikings using blue to describe dark skinned people

i asked a swedish friend of mine and she said that there is a swedish word that uses blue as a color for dark skinned people

So excuse me for answering in this thread as well.
I have little facts on the subjects, but I do know that colors have been described very differently from our scientific spectrum in other times and cultures. For example, the same word is used to describe two colors that we would separate today.
It makes me wonder on the Prof.s views on this matter. Being a linguist and historian no doubt he was aware of this.

[afro-elf]

just cruising the old threads

and I guess I could say

As a WHOLE the Calaquendi where the ass kickers


for non-Calaquendi who where equal to great noldor I guess

Beleg,Mablung, Cirdan, Celeborn, Daeron, and Eol seem to be the best canidates


I quess that Amroth and Thranduil, even though the later was a jerk at times, had to be above your run of the mill sindar to be able to rule

[afro-elf]

just saw in the SIL that is says something to the effect that the SIL was mostly concerened with the Noldor. so its hard to say of individuals of the the morquendi who were "great"

[Andúril]

Remeber Ingwe, chieftain of the Vanyar? He is held to be the High-King of the Elvish race, and is still alive and kicking in Aman(major assumption). We don't know much about them, save for the fact that they do a lot of singing and music and poetry. But if I remember correctly, some Vanyar fought in the wars against Morgoth in the First Age, but I don't remember how they fared.

[afro-elf]

someone mentioned them above but I was trying to limit it to the noldor

the vanyar returned to ME in the War of Wrath

some have speculated that Glorfindel may have been Vanyar

[Andúril]

You were trying to limit it to the Noldor?? I thought you wanted non-Noldor.

Besides this, you said that Elwe did not count, being technically "Caliquendi". That doesn't make him not non-Noldor. (Woah negatives...) So if he is non-Noldor, why does he not count, if we take the Vanyar or Teleri(Grey elves, etc) as counting.

Did you also want to limit it to Moriquendi?

[afro-elf]

you mis understood my above reply

I 'll make it more clear, sorry

I only wanted the NON-noldor ( moriquendi) compared to the Noldor.


Not the other calaquendei

[Andúril]

Oic, so you want Moriquendi and of those, non-Noldor. Jeez I must be slow this morning...

Well, Cirdan for one, but he has already been mentioned...

[afro-elf]

i hadn't read the SIL when I started this thread.

and I was looking for a character to play in the up coming decipher PnP RPG for LOTR.

I didn't want an uber-elf. I HATE muchkin style gaming. So i was trying to find references to morquendi who where outstanding in some way. so even though the exiles as a whole where more powerful because of the light of valinor within them. i was hoping that ALL moriquendi weren't punk *****es compared to the returned Noldor who were quite powerful.

I know no one could touch the descedants of finwe ( save maybe cirdan)

but wanted to see how ecthelion, glorfindel, gwindor. voronwe might

stack up against Celeborn,Mablung,Beleg, Eol, Daeron etc.

even though my character would be a dark skinned avari form the late 3rd age i was looking for SOME precedent of moriquendi that were outstanding in someway.


then I recalled the line in the SIL
that is says something to the effect that the SIL was mostly concerened with the Noldor. so its hard to say of individuals of the the morquendi who were "great"

though it was obvious that the Noldo were the most powerful( as a whole) elves in ME ( not arda)