Heinlein

[Bregalad]

I'd love to start a thread about Robert Heinlein. He is my favorite sci-fi author. It is amazing how much philosophy and physics he mixes into his books. I have to admit, my least favorite Heinlein book is the most well known. I find "stranger in a Strange Land" a bit on the boring side, and if I had read that one first I might never have read another. Luckily for me I read "Friday" first and it is still one of my fav books ever. Some of my other Favorite Heinlein's are "I Shall Fear No Evil", "Job", all of the Lazarus Long related books, especially "To Sail Beyaond the Sunset", and my all time favorite, "The Door Into Summer". I know that last one is sort of a spruced up romance novel, but I am a girl after all and it's such a fascinating book!
So what do you all think about Heinlein?

[ringbearer]

Ahh!...The Door Into Summer!!! It is one of the best time travel stories there is!!! The characters are great! The story is simple and wonderfull! The cat is cool! And revenge is so sweet!!!

Another great Heinlein time travel story(short story found in collection called "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathon Hoag") is called All You Zombies! Bregalad, if you have read this one, let me know what you think! If you have not...find it and read it...you will love it! :D

P.S. I did not enjoy "Stranger In A Strange Land" that much either! ;)

[Putz0999]

I think I have read everything Mr. Heinlein wrote. "Stranger in a Strange Land" is possibly my favorite story (single book, not series).

He demonstrates amazing insight into the art of being human in many of his stories (even if the character is a machine struggling with self awareness).

He is considered one of "the" all time greats of science fiction, and is regularly given credit for silently inspiring new authors.

I am a fan, and just finished re-reading the Lazurus Long books this summer. Did he go back in time and re-juvenate his parents?? If he did, is he still the oldest living man?? Technically, they were born before him.

Nice to meet a few other fans.:cool:

Putz

[cee2lee2]

I haven't read him recently though I've enjoyed what I've read. :)

In fact, his Podkayne of Mars was my intro to science fiction. I was in 7th grade and had to give one of those stand-up-in-front-of-the-class book reports. I was terrified of doing the report but I loved that book so much it was easy to talk about it. Years later I bought an old copy that a library was selling and it's on my shelf right now. It was also interesting to learn that he had changed the ending to accomodate the publisher's idea of a suitable ending for young people.

[Bregalad]

Did he go back in time and re-juvenate his parents?? If he did, is he still the oldest living man?? Technically, they were born before him.
Well, Putz, according to how the Howard foundation defines it, Lazarus is the head of the family and oldest, because what matters is how many years you have lived, not when you are born. And no one has lived more years than Lazarus. I love those stories!

Ringbearer, I'm thrilled to see another "Door Into Summer" fan! I don't think that book gets near the credit it deserves! And of course I've read "The Unpleasant Proffession of Jonathon Hoag"! But I'll have to go back and re-read that story. In that book I mostly remember the title story, and isn't it a creepy little thing!
There's another great story with a time travel twist to it, it's called "Farnham's Freehold". Have you read it?

[Bregalad]

Hiya Cee2Lee2!
Podkayne of Mars is a great book! Oddly enough the only copy I've read is an old one. I'd hate to guess what the publishers thought would warp our little minds! I'm sure they would rather we all lived in a bubble and watched telletubbies! <sheesh>

[cee2lee2]

Don't think too poorly of me, Bregalad. I like Teletubbies too :D

RE Podkayne's original ending, I think one of the characters died. It was rewritten for the more upbeat ending it now has.

(edited to spell "upbeat" correctly)

[ringbearer]

Bregalad wrote...



Ringbearer, I'm thrilled to see another "Door Into Summer" fan! I don't think that book gets near the credit it deserves! And of course I've read "The Unpleasant Proffession of Jonathon Hoag"! But I'll have to go back and re-read that story. In that book I mostly remember the title story, and isn't it a creepy little thing!

Yes! That title story was creepy!

The Door Into Summer...Remember where the title came from...the cat(if it looked outside a door and saw snowy, cold weather) would go check the other doors, hoping to find warmer weather...he was looking for his "Door into summer". Totally unique!

Bregalad also wrote...

There's another great story with a time travel twist to it, it's called "Farnham's Freehold". Have you read it?

Yes, several times! What an ending..."We've lost two customers this week, and we wouldn't want to lose you!"

Farnham's Freehold was my first Heinlein experience!

[Bregalad]

Ringbearer, you know, I've always thought my cat, Pyewacket, has a lot in common with Pete. Whenever we have to go in the car, he wanders around looking out all the windows, hoping, I'm sure, that out one of those windows the world isn't flying by!
Heinlein sure loved cats. (and redheads!:D ) I agree with him that cats (and other pets) are a "chinese obligation". Getting a pet is like having a child, you are responsible for taking care of them for the rest of their lives, they depend on you. It sickens me that, especially in college towns like I'm in, people will adopt an animal, and then when they move, or classes end, or it is in some way inconvenient to have a pet, they just dump them on the street or ship them back to the pound. And that just breaks a cat or dogs heart. I fully understand Heinlein when he tells the story of how an emperor cut off the sleeve of a priceless kimono because a kitten was sleeping on it and he didn't want to disturb it! I love that bit!

[ringbearer]

Yes. We love our pets!!! Our dog Poochbutt, and our deceased cat(17) Chum, and our bird(cockateel) Jasper! We consider our pets "Treasures stored for us in Heaven" and look forward to seeing the ones we have lost again...someday!
:)

[Putz0999]

Bregalad,

I agree that Lazarus "had" lived more years than anyone else. That changed when he traveled back and rejuvenated his parents (who were older than him the first time).

He would be older if he had spent many years "living" in the past, or brought them forward in time (by-passing the intervening years). If they were given long life and left to live the years they would still be older than Lazurus. He would have been the oldest until the day he went back in time (and treated his parents). On that day they would have passed him and returned to the "normal" time line, history having been re-written to include them in the years (probably disguised).

I thought they were rejuvenated and left in the past. But I seem to remember that they "disappeared". Which is what Lazurus did many times in his life by changing identities and making himself appear to grow old.

Great stories, written by a Master.

What do you think??

Putz

[Bregalad]

Hiya again, Putz!
Say, have you read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset"? I think it clears a lot of this up. First, Lazurus' mom, Momma Maureen, is rescued, and brought back to the future (hey, that sounds like a movie!:D ) where she continues to reside. So, while she was born before Woodrow, she skips a whole herd of years of living when she is rescued and taken to Tersius. So Woody actually has the experience of living many more years than her, which makes him "head of the families" by Howard family rules. Then they go back and rescue Maureen's dad, Lazurus' granddaddy, and skip him ahead. Same story. They never do rescue Lazarus' dad, Brian, I expect because he dumped momma Maureen and he ended up being a big weenie head. (my wording, of course, master Heinlein would never deign to use the phrase "Weenie head"!:D
I sure am glad to find another Lazurus fan, Putz. I just love these stories!

[Santee]

As I've only read Starship Troopers, which by the way is much better than teh movie and cartoon adaptations, and haven't rtead the rest of his series...

I loved the story though. Great from a military point of view...

[Putz0999]

Thanks Bregalad...

You turned me on to a Heinlein book I have never read. I will get a copy and read it. I thought I had read almost all his stories, now I wonder if I missed any others too.

I went through a period, several years ago, when I had time to read. I read 75% or more of the science fiction section of the Ft. Vancouver Regional Library in Vancouver, WA. Heinlein quickly became one of my favorites. I still read continuosly, but the local library where I live now (South Lyon, Michigan) has a very small sci-fi section (I have more sci-fi's at home than the library).

A couple of other great stories you may have read...

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant - I read the chapter telling about the annihilation of the giants to my 11 year old - she broke into tears. She has started reading the first volume.

Tarzan of the Apes (the first book is incredible - the series got old quick)

Frankenstein - If you have never read it... you are in for a treat

Mission Earth ?? (the 10 volume story by L. Ron Hubbard. Not sure of the series title - excellent story)

Almost anything/everything by Asimov - 'nuf said.

Lots of others too that I will feel bad about forgetting.

Of course, it's never too soon to re-read Lord of the Rings (i just finished my 35th reading, and am anxiously awaiting the movie).

Hope you enjoy the holidays.

Putz

[Bregalad]

Putz:
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenent! What a great series! I whole-heartedly agree with you on that one! Talk about the epitome of reluctant heroes!
I've also read some Asimov, and it is excellent, as is Frankenstein by Shelly.
I've never read the Tarzan series, and I've always meant to, I've heard it's great.
I'll have to disagree with you about L Ron Hubbard though. I know he is a favorite of many sci-fi fans so I certainly can't fault your taste, but I just find his works pedestrian ans completely ponderous. I've tried a couple of times to read his stuff, but to me it's just pompas and slow. Maybe it's just a personal thing, because he certainly is a highly acclaimed author, to me though, he just seems like the Michener of sci-fi!

[ringbearer]

Have you guys ever heard of Cordwainer Smith? He wrote all short stories and one novel. If you find some check it out...it is the weirdest Sci Fi you will ever read!

[Putz0999]

Bregelad,

The taste of temptation...

"As the body rolled to the ground Tarzan of the Apes placed his foot upon the neck of his lifelong enemy, and raising his eyes to the full moon threw back his fierce young head and voiced the wild and terrible cry of his people." (from Tarzan of the Apes, 1914 )

Tarzan of the Apes... incredible story, read it. The second story - The Return of Tarzan, was pretty good too. They started getting boring after that, with an occasional "episode" being better than most. Much like the Conan series - good for a taste, but serve it in a small bowl.

The same author (Edgar Rice Burroughs) wrote several other series too. The Warlord of Mars series was very entertaining. He also wrote a series about a pre-historic world inside the Earth, that was enjoyable. He was a prolific writer with several novels of note also.

Regarding the L. Ron Hubbard series... I agree that the series has a very slow start. It begins to get real interesting (and funny) when the aliens finally arrive on Earth (in the second or third volume).

The entire story is a satire on American life (including the slow start). The early part of the story has to introduce us to a society that has been "planned" for over 100,000 years. That society is substancially more advanced than us (Earth) and has enourmous engrained bureaucracy. The alien's (like us) have a CIA, secret service, armies, and politics that all have to be introduced to set the stage for the actual mission to Earth.

Once they arrive on Earth (who has no knowledge of aliens), they encounter almost every element of earth/human life. Most of these encounters are very humorous. This is one of a very short list that actually made me laugh out loud while reading. Everything that can go wrong does go wrong (for the boss anyway... lol). Beneath all the humor is some very interesting alien technology that gets used. And some interesting puzzles that must be solved in order to "save the Earth from self destruction so we can invade in a couple hundred years"

While the story seems to drag in the beginning, you will likely be well rewarded for the patience of reading it. I have read the ten volume series 3 or 4 times and consider it a masterful and enlightening, well told tale. (But then hindsight is always so good... lol)

Nice chatting with you, look forward to more. :)

Putz

[markedel]

Hmm notice how starship troopers got mangled far worse then LOTR? Imagine a credible starship troopers adaptation...

[BeardofPants]

Heh. I liked the movie. I saw it WAY before I read the book though. I've only read a couple of Heinlein's books... his moralising annoys me.

[Sir Gram]

I have read and own allmost everthing by RAH the sun god and untill reading "Heinlein in Dimension" by Alexei Panshin a critical analysis where Mr Panshin discusses Heinlein's fiction and analyzes its strengths an weaknesses; traces the constants and the variables in Heinlein interests and viewpoints was missing a real understanding of his work. This analysis helped me understand what he was trying to say and some reasons for the way Mr. Heinlein wrote. Whats your opinion of the father of modern sci/fi? Old robert belongs in the top five fiction writers of all time, right up there next to Tolkien, So says I, Sir Gram, a knight and defender of the code.

[Yapaluna]

When I was young I was a fan of Heinlein, but nowadays I dislike his conservative, right-winged point of view. Besides of this, I still think that he´s a really good writer of sci-fi novels.

Farnham´s Freehold is one of my favourite books. Does anyone know "Have spacesuit - will travel"?:)

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Yapaluna
When I was young I was a fan of Heinlein, but nowadays I dislike his conservative, right-winged point of view. Besides of this, I still think that he´s a really good writer of sci-fi novels.

Farnham´s Freehold is one of my favourite books. Does anyone know "Have spacesuit - will travel"?:)

Yes, it's good, though not my favorite of his juveniles- that would have to be "Citizen of the Galaxy" , with "Tunnel in the Sky" as runner-up - why didn't they have subjects like that when I was in high school?

I'm a pretty leftish type myself, though I do appreciate RAH's libertarian streak. My favorite of his adult books is "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."

One question- don't you find Farnham's Freehold to be somewhat, umm, racist? - I was actually quite disturbed by that aspect, since I'm absolutely sure that Heinlein was NOT a racist (so please, nobody out there flame me on that ;) )

[Yapaluna]

Now that you mentioned it, well...

He describes a society which has racistic attitudes without giving a judgement as the narrator. I think RAH would have liked always the reader to think for himself and come to his own conclusions or judgements.

It is never quite clear, if Heinlein agrees with the characters in his books, e.g. Lazarus Long. Everybody is useful, and if only as a deterrent example.

Whatever he intended, his books are good work, always with a thrill.

[Estel13]

I have read a lot of Heinlein. My faves are Farmer In The Sky, Tunnel In The Sky, Space Cadets, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, Time For The Stars, The Rolling Stones, and Podkayne Of Mars. The worst are Waldo & Magic, Inc, The Door Into Summer, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, and Starship Troopers. I liked the movie, myself. :rolleyes: But that's me, and I'm wierd. ;) Later.....:p :p :p

[Valandil]

I've read about a dozen (or more) Heinlein books. I think it was the first science-fiction I ever read. Found 'Between Planets' and 'Red Planet' at my school library in 6th grade. Went on to later read: 'Space Cadet' - 'Starship Troopers' - 'Stranger in a Strange Land' - 'Tunnel in the Sky' - 'Time for the Stars' - 'Farmer in the Sky' - ('Orphans of the Sky... was that the right name?) - 'Glory Road' - 'Revolt in XXXX AD (sorry - forgot the year! :o :p )' - 'Rocketship Galileo' - 'Menace from Earth' - 'Podkayne of Mars'... maybe some others... :)

[Lefty Scaevola]

He had other talents. A project he worked on in WWII was so sensitive that is is still classified 60 years later.

[ringbearer]

I have read a lot of Heinlein. My faves are Farmer In The Sky, Tunnel In The Sky, Space Cadets, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, Time For The Stars, The Rolling Stones, and Podkayne Of Mars. The worst are Waldo & Magic, Inc, The Door Into Summer, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, and Starship Troopers. I liked the movie, myself. :rolleyes: But that's me, and I'm wierd. ;) Later.....:p :p :p


How can you dislike The Door Into Summer... :confused: