Elves and cities

[afro-elf]

During the LOTR would most of the noldar be living in around mithlond and the grey havens and lindon in general?

would the next largest NOLDAR population be at rivendell?

any idea on population of those places?

are tharbad, edhellond, lond daer populated? if so by men or elves?

if dol amroth was founded by the elven king amroth how did it fall into human leadership?

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by afro-elf
During the LOTR would most of the noldar be living in around mithlond and the grey havens and lindon in general?

would the next largest NOLDAR population be at rivendell?

any idea on population of those places?



I think you are right on the first and second most populated Elven (Noldor) areas. As for numbers, I think Michael Martinez has written about that. Anyone with a good link for the appropriate article?

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by afro-elf
During the LOTR would most of the noldar be living in around mithlond and the grey havens and lindon in general?

would the next largest NOLDAR population be at rivendell?

Do you mean NoldDOR perhaps?

I would say you're right. The largest two populations of noldor would be at rivendell and Mithlond (for your information Mithlond is sindarin for 'grey havens') I wouldn't think Mithlond would be larger than Rivendell, because the noldor there usually don't stay long.

I would guess that most of the noldor were in small companies, like taht of Gildor Inglorion. Certainly this is what tolkien had envisioned early in his work.

Originally posted by afro-elf
are tharbad, edhellond, lond daer populated? if so by men or elves?

Tharbad and Edhellond were originally elvish settlements.

Edhellond was evacuated prior to the last alliance, and not repopulated that I know of. Certainly not by Noldor.

Tharbad was likewise an elvish settlement, and was likewise evacuated during sauron's thrust into Eregion.

If I'm correct in my memory, Lond daer wasn't populated by elves either.

Originally posted by afro-elf
if dol amroth was founded by the elven king amroth how did it fall into human leadership?


The Princes of Dol Amroth had elvish blood. I believe this is because, after Amroth and Nimrodel died, their heir married a human.

[Ñólendil]

Most of what you said just now, Wayfarer, I had no idea about, but I can create the illusion of being smart by informing you that Mithrellas, a maid in the service of Nimrodel, was the Elf who married Imrahil's ancestor.

Kirinki, the article you're thinking of is Elves by the numbers (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/54681). It was written in December of last year.

[afro-elf]

but the question still remains

amroth was a elven king
nimrodel was his love

they both died with no heir


imrazor numenorean ( hadn't numenor been underwater about 2,000 years) had kids with mithrellas the elf former elven maiden

would the elves have just given their home to the humans to take over becasue there king was dead?

unless mithrellas had some kind of royal blood

[Ñólendil]

I'd have to open up Unfinished Tales to see what happened, but the settlement at Edhellond was a small one, very small by the time Amroth got there. If you go by Legolas's song, the last of the Elves who lived there left with Amroth (when the winds came, Amroth of course did not make it).

[Manwe Sulimo]

Lond Daer was a port made by the numenoreans... Don't remember the meaning off it, but I think there might have been some fishermen living there prior to it, but I think they ran away...

One thing that has had me wondering much, was how come a place by the sea is named after the last king of Lothlorien... he never stayed long enough to make it, or an impact there... he came down, boarded a ship, waited a short while for Nimrodel, the ship sailed, he jumped into the sea, and was never seen again... IIRC, that is... so, how did Dol Amroth get it's name?

[Michael Martinez]

Edhellond was not inhabited by Imrazor's people. The Elf-haven lay on the north side of the Ringlo river (where the Morthond joined it). The Princes of Dol Amroth had their fortress on the heights overlooking the bay from the south.

The Lord of the Rings glosses over a huge departure of Elves from Middle-earth in the last years before the War of the Ring. Sam speaks of the migration wistfully in "The Shadow of the Past" when he says they are "sailing, sailing, sailing over the Sea".

Mithlond was probably chiefly the abode of Sindarin Elves, although in one place Tolkien seems to hint that those Noldor who remained in Middle-earth after Gil-galad's fall were rulded either by Cirdan at Mithlond or Elrond at Imladris.

Gildor and his folk did not spend all their time wandering. They were actually returning from a special pilgrimage when they met Frodo, Sam, and Pippin in the Shire. They told the Hobbits they had better food in their halls, which (according to The Road Goes Ever On) stood in or near Rivendell (which was a pretty large valley, running up into the Misty Mountains).

There was probably a large Elven population throughout Lindon and in the vicinity of Rivendell until just before the War of the Ring. So, when the Council of Elrond met, the point was made that neither Rivendell nor Lindon/Mithlond any longer had sufficient numbers to field an army. The only Elvish armies left were those of northern Mirkwood and Lothlorien. Gandalf says Rivendell would have withstood a siege for a brief time before falling to Sauron's forces. Although that makes it sound like Elrond could have mustered some sort of force, it's still a pretty hopeless assessment.

Elrond and Galadriel left Middle-earth with Gildor's company and probably other Elves from Rivendell and Lothlorien. There may have been several hundred in their party, but Tolkien doesn't really say. Elves remained at Rivendell with Elladan and Elrohir and at Mithlond (Sam was able to take ship years later).