My English teacher has never read tLotR!

[Sakata]

Does anyone else find this appauling? You would think that it would be a requirement for English teachers right? And she makes us read her sleezy, sex-filled romance novels! I meen this is an juniors honors English class, what a total waste of time.

[Comic Book Guy]

I don't think the Lord of the Rings is on the reading list for english teachers, its not exactly considered proper literature by a lot of english scholars and is often snubbed by literature commitees and such. Thats what makes it a cult classic, adored by the millions and hated by the few critics and the like.

My english teacher has a foolish view on the lord of the rings, he doesn't like it because it's 'Far fetched' and 'Unrealistic', the guy hasn't even read the book. Can't win them all I guess.

It's a disgrace you have to read those 'Novels', Sakata.

[anduin]

What are the titles of some of these novels?

[galadriel]

I'm pretty sure most of my english teachers have been familliar with the book, but not many have read it. It's a shame: just because it's a fantasy novel, people immediately assume it's far-fetched and melodramatic. True, there are a lot of really bad fantasy novels out there, but LOTR is unique because it's actually well-written, and is set in a highly complex, believable world.

Certainly it's a better novel than Pride and Prejudice! I'm taking sophomore honors English, and that's the next book we're reading. After reading the first page of my friend's copy, I decided it's one of the most horrible novels ever written. (I hope I didn't make any Jane Austen fans mad here. But you can't convince me that people actually talk as pretentiously and long-windedly as the characters in her novels!)

[IronParrot]

Nobody has the time to read every book worth reading out there. Sometimes, even the ones that are most worth reading are set aside for more immediate demands, such as those placed by curricula.

[Wayfarer]

English classes are a complete and utter waste of time.

Especially literature.

[Comic Book Guy]

It depends what you want to do as a career, if you want to be a writer of sorts, poet or such then it isn't so much of a waste of time. If you wish to have a technicical job, then I fail to see the point of it. I personally hate english myself, it would have to be my worst subject, most probally because of my lack of interest.

It is rather irritating and frustrating a lot of the time, you don't really get to explore a lot of interesting topics, just the standard curriculla.

[arynetrek]

(sorry about any misspellings, but the N key on my comp is a little screwed.)

i think it's utterly appalling that your teacher has never read LotR. as someone above already mentioned, too many people view fantasy as irrelevant; however, relevance is mostly determined by the AUTHOR, not the GENRE. unfortunately too few people, especially those who think they are keepers of all literary knowledge (like many English teachers), realize this.

The minds of americans are narrowing (i'm assuming this is an american schoolteacher, Sakata), and many adults cannot enjoy fantasy or escapism, however relevant. it's a sad situation.

as for all english classes being a waste of time, IMO they are ABSOLUTELY NOT. going back to school made me realize how much i missed learning for the sake of learning, which is exactly what a lit. class should be.

however...
trashy romance novels? HER trashy romance novels? is your teacher a washed-up self-promoting writer?

i'm sorry,
aryne *

[IronParrot]

English classes aren't completely useless. They boost my grades, along with the added bonus of letting me show off.

[Legolas]

I hate learning English. The language is great, but as I know it far better than any other guy from my class (exept one) and sometimes even better than the teacher, so what's the point of learning? And, also, Quenya is far better...

[Sister Golden Hair]

When I was in high school, many moons ago, I had an English teacher that the class was very fond of. He was a terrific guy and on his birthday we bought him a box set of the Hobbit and LOTRs. I happened to run in to him about a year ago. Do you know that he said he still had not read those books. I couldn't believe it. I really let him have it for that and I enjoyed it too. I always wanted to tell off teachers when I got mad at them, but I was a good student and bit my tongue. It felt pretty good to not be on the receiving end this time.:)

[Kirinki54]

For you guys who still go to school - is it not nice to have an area that is 'untainted' but the duties and obligations of formal education?

I read LotR when I was in High School (around the Second Age or so:) ) and it never occurred to me that these wonderful books should be part of the curriculum.

[Finduilas]

It would have been nice if it had. All the things I had to read in English 12 were really depressing, so the LOTR would have been a major improvement. However I did manage to sneak it in anyway (Oral Presentation and essay on the gift of Death in Middle-Earth). The essay is on my webpage.

[Comic Book Guy]

I think they mock you by making you read the 'Lord of the Flies'.

[Wayfarer]

You misunderstand me when I say that english classes are useless.

Language is a subject is one of the things I enjoy most.

But the fact is that English/Lit classes, far more than any other, tend to be based on the teacher's subjective (and narrow minded) biases.

My freshman year, I took grammer 1. The only time we actually had grammar was when we had a sub. The rest of the semester was "Why 'To kill a mockingbird' is the greatest book ever, 101" I hated that book.

I had to take speech the next semester. This time it was "Romeo and Juliet" pretty much the entire semester.

Sophmore year... Rhetoric. I basically stopped doing anything in that class after the teacher told me (to My Face!) that "I was not possibly smart enough to use the word 'adaquately' in a proper sentance."

Needless to say, I was pissed. Really. Really. Pissed.

This last year, I got an english course despite my misgivings (I'm self educated now). To my surprise, it was great! The entire class was actually about _English_!.

So, don't take me wrong. learning english is something we all can and should do. The problem is that, in America, education l33t Sux0rs.

Wayfarer-antiestablishment orc

[Dfsg]

Last year, my teacher had a great collection of books, and in her bookshelf, she had a box set of LOTR and the Hobbit. I asked her if she read them, and she told me that she can't stand Fantasy stories.

That whole year, we read only one genre of books. They weren't too good, but what can you expect?

I tried to get her to read LOTR all year, but she never did.

and as arynetrek said, too many people view fantasy as irrelevant.

At least she's not like this one teacher I have who doesn't like to read. I just don't comprehend that!

[Ghost of Tolkien]

Middle Earth has a considerable eugenics component. Racial differences are a central theme in the work. The American/European religion of ‘egalitarianism’ hates any idea of ‘difference’. This is why LTR is avoided by the brainwashing PC/media/educational/etc conglomerate – ‘it goes against the grain’ of received ‘wisdom’. (To Kill A Mockingbird is fine – Good Black man, Evil White man etc)

If recent American administrations ruled ME, then the Orcs would be guaranteed at least one place on the ‘White Council’. The underachievement of trolls would no doubt be blamed on Elvish imperialism etc etc

LTR strikes a chord because it discusses themes that heretical minds couldn’t within our Western PC world. We are subconsciously involved with themes that if we discussed them consciously outside the parable of ME would come into direct conflict with ‘multicultural brainwashed’ opinion. We can discuss ME in safety without offending the ‘State Religion of Multiculturalism’

Tolkien wrote because he loved language, but his intention was to write a mythology for the English speaking peoples. The PC establishment would hate anything that made us feel good about ourselves (Indigenous Europeans/Americans)

Ghost of Tolkien

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Ghost of Tolkien
This is why LTR is avoided by the brainwashing PC/media/educational/etc conglomerate – ‘it goes against the grain’ of received ‘wisdom’. (To Kill A Mockingbird is fine – Good Black man, Evil White man etc)

Actually, I don´t agree on anything in your post.

And I seriously think you should change your alias, so that Mr Tolkien does not become associated with your opinions.

[Ghost of Tolkien]

Something’s I wrote:

"Middle Earth has a considerable eugenics component. Racial differences are a central theme in the work."

"Tolkien wrote because he loved language, but his intention was to write a mythology for the English speaking peoples. "

(Nothing very controversial here really is there? :confused: )


What you wrote:
"Actually, I don’t agree on anything in your post. "


I SUGGEST YOU mean, "I don't agree with some/most of your post".

To make the blanket statement "anything" is to replace objective debate with rhetoric and emotion.

Ghost of Tolkien

:cool:

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Ghost of Tolkien
To make the blanket statement "anything" is to replace objective debate with rhetoric and emotion.

Ghost of Tolkien

:cool:

Yes, you are right. And it was done intentionally.

[Darkhalcyon]

I agree with you all on some points.

As far as english classes go, they're very imprtant. except for the ones at NY high schools. I swear, we spend all our time preparing for, and learning to write the essays on the English regents exam. they're not even tough essays! We don't have much time to becreative in those classes. Just how towrite an essay suited for the regents. which, of course, is different from what the colleges want in college english classes. (i take AP english this year. joy) i love writing, but not those very dry, very linear essays the regents board wants from us.

as far as LotR, and the lack of interest... The idea of fantasy has been popularized as something for little children, and losers who go to conventions (not my personal opinion, mind you, because i do go to scifi/fantasy cons!) Fantasy is a much needed escape, and it takes a whole lot more to write a good fantasy book (making up worlds, cultures, etc) than it is to write somethjng that takes place in our world. Don't get me wrong, i love shakespeare and the scarelt letter andthings like that, too (oh the list goes on) but fantasy is my passion.

I had a really great english teacher last year. We were talking about LotRand stuff. So, i'll leave you giuys with something to consider. It's impossible to do LotR in the classroom, for the reasoning of there'd be no time! I mean, you can just read one book, because i don't beleive they were ever meant to be treated as such. No one could fairly give it the kind of attention it deserves, and then then you those charming people in class who don't take it seriously. ( we had that problem last year when we did a topic on star wars. And yes, my teacher was the coolest ever)

[Renille]

But couldn't you read the Hobbit in the classroom? It's probably not considered High School level reading material, but they could still read it in 7th or 8th grade.

[ringbearer]

from the wonderfull novel "Catch 22"...these classes
teach you everything about literature, except how to enjoy it! :D

[galadriel]

Now that I think about it, the 8th grade reading classes at my old middle school read the Hobbit. Unfortunately, the 8th grade reading classes are for the kids that aren't taking a foreign language, so I didn't get to read it in school.

As for the value of English class. It all depends on the teacher and the curriculum. I had an awesome teacher last year, so it was one of my favorite classes. Right now, I have an intern who is boring as heck (but I'm still thoroughly enjoying Macbeth).

[ryan]

Thats wierd. We read 'the hobbit' in sixth grade, and theres an elective english class thats based around reading the lord of the rings and such.. (of course theres also one that studies "dune" and a few other wierd books ;) ). Heh, my dad did a college term paper on tlotr when he was in college, too :)

[fireworks19]

Ryan, I just suggested an elective class such as that to my friend behind me, right before I read your post, creepiness...

Our school is too incredibly cheap to do that though...They're considering cutting Speech/Debate, band, colorguard and a lot more for next year...ERGH!

I think the Hobbit could very easily be High School Reading level. My brother's in 7th and he didn't understand a lot of it. He's rather intelligent...Takes after me...;)

It would be fun to read LOTR in school. That's a lot better than some things I could mention. And I think I will. We just finished the Scarlet Letter in my English class. I may of been one of MAYBE 6 people who got any part of it. Just because its considered a classic doesn't mean we should be forced to read it! There are novels that are newer which focus on the same themes, and, wonder of wonders, your average teenager/college kid can actually understand more than every 5th word!

Now, contradicting myself, I like Shakespeare. Once you get past the weird language, the stories are wonderful. The same can probably apply to the classics.

BRAINSTORM!
They should focus more on learning the story and talking about it in class as opposed to reading it outside of class and praying we understood it....That's not fair!

[arynetrek]

Our school is too incredibly cheap to do that though...They're considering cutting Speech/Debate, band, colorguard and a lot more for next year...ERGH!

that is truly horrible. music is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL! i know not everyone's into band or choir, but for those that want it, the classes should be there. and at least in TX (where i went to high school) it was a graduation requirement from the STATE that students take a semester of speech or debate. how are they getting away with killing it?

the slaughter of electives is a horrible thing. do anything you can to stop it.

I think the Hobbit could very easily be High School Reading level. My brother's in 7th and he didn't understand a lot of it. He's rather intelligent...Takes after me...;)

i've always considered The Hobbit to be middle-school, but IMO people (even rather intelligent ones, which is truly sad) are not reading enough, and aren't getting in practice for reading complicated books. young americans' reading levels are dropping quickly.

It would be fun to read LOTR in school. That's a lot better than some things I could mention.

the more i think about reading LotR in school, the more i realize that teaching it requires an INCREDIBLE teacher to do justice to the book. it would be a great class if it were done right. but if the books were ruined by a careless teacher it would be a crime against the Valar.

We just finished the Scarlet Letter in my English class. I may of been one of MAYBE 6 people who got any part of it. Just because its considered a classic doesn't mean we should be forced to read it! There are novels that are newer which focus on the same themes, and, wonder of wonders, your average teenager/college kid can actually understand more than every 5th word!
Now, contradicting myself, I like Shakespeare. Once you get past the weird language, the stories are wonderful. The same can probably apply to the classics.

for the record, i did not enjoy Scarlet Letter.

older or unused language is a big barrier for some people - my English class this semester focuses on Faulkner, i have to read about a chapter before i "get into" his language & style. again, i blame the lack of reading in american society. (yes, i'm part of this problem too, grr)

why teach classics? Because some of them are wonderful books that students wouldn't read otherwise (in my case, The Sound & The Fury). and i've always thought Shakespeare was included in "The Classics."

aryne *

[Serena]

I'd like to see LOTR done in the our english classes, too, but most teachers wouldn't be up to it (especially with me in the class!)

Still, it would be better than my current english curriclum, "The Methodical dissection of Hamlet". I like Shakespeare, but two and a half months on one play and we're not done yet . . . .ahhhh!

I'm sneaking LOTR in, though, for my independent presentation. Of course, than my teacher wanted comprehensive notes on plot, setting, theme, character, and almost every literary device you can name, so now my notes are humongous. Oh well, I can put up with a lot of note-taking if it means I get to actually bring LOTR into a classroom.

I've ranted enough here. Bye!

[fireworks19]

You're absolutely right, it would take a good teacher to teach LOTR in class....

IDEA!

Why couldn't there just be a teacher supervisor and a student teaching the class...? FUN!

I have more, but its late here, and I'm tired. We'll see about it tomorrow.

[Losttaliel]

In my school, my english teacher told our class to avoid fantasy at all costs; I ignored her and gave a talk on Tolkein's universe for 10 mins. Got an A* and an angry teacher :D. It's difficult to beleive that english teachers actualy DON'T like fantasy. My science teacher has read a greater variety of works than my english one!

(Please forgive all stuff that makes no sence and has no place; I've only been online 4 a month and I'm not good at messige bords)

[fireworks19]

My science teacher has read a greater variety of works than my english one!

That's great. My mom's an English teacher. She hasn't read LOTR either. I wonder if my teacher has? We have a Nazi (not an actually one) for a teacher but the Student Teacher is really cool. He probably has.

(Please forgive all stuff that makes no sence and has no place; I've only been online 4 a month and I'm not good at messige bords)

Don't fret. Few people make sense ever. Seledomly do I...;)

I like Shakespeare, but two and a half months on one play and we're not done yet . . . .ahhhh!

We did Romeo and Juliet in...about 2 weeks, I think, last year. We had a great teacher though.

[Bacchus]

Despair not. All you need to do to take a outstanding Tolkien course is attend Rice University in Houston TX. A full semester of heaven, covering The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion, along with Beowulf (Tolkien once did a translation), The Monsters and the Critics, and The Battle of Malden.

[Legolas]

Originally posted by Losttaliel
In my school, my english teacher told our class to avoid fantasy at all costs; I ignored her and gave a talk on Tolkein's universe for 10 mins. Got an A* and an angry teacher :D. It's difficult to beleive that english teachers actualy DON'T like fantasy. My science teacher has read a greater variety of works than my english one!

Well, my Lithuanian teacher also hates fantasy. When we have to talk about books we read, she always says: "No fantasy, because fantasy is not worth reading" :mad: I think that she has read a few fantasy books which really were not worth reading. And now she thinks that ALL fantasy isn't worth reading. I simply don't take this serious.
And my English teacher... I don't know if she has read any other books than English elementaries, dictionaries and magazines for women :D

[Losttaliel]

Originally posted by Legolas


Well, my Lithuanian teacher also hates fantasy. When we have to talk about books we read, she always says: "No fantasy, because fantasy is not worth reading"

Tell her that talking about books "you have read" but "not fantasy"is a contrediction in terms, a breach of the rights of the individual and is against free speach. :D.
And don't tell her, but I bet if she tried to read it LOTR she would find it too Challenging! :)

[Legolas]

Originally posted by Losttaliel
Tell her that talking about books "you have read" but "not fantasy"is a contrediction in terms, a breach of the rights of the individual and is against free speach. :D.
And don't tell her, but I bet if she tried to read it LOTR she would find it too Challenging! :) [/COLOR]
I think that there are many of LotR fans in my school (even six in my class from 26 overall students). That's why my Lith teacher is afraid of them and that's why she doesn't want to talk about it and even to read it!

[Losttaliel]

Originally posted by Legolas

I think that there are many of LotR fans in my school (even six in my class from 26 overall students). That's why my Lith teacher is afraid of them and that's why she doesn't want to talk about it and even to read it!

That many? In my school most people I know haven't even HEARD of LotR! Most of my class thinks I'm mad since I was chatting with my freind about the 'history of middle earth' in maths (only one out of my six friends has read it). And they also think I'm some sort of devil worshiper because I was trying to copy out Tolkein's elf runes for art (Yes, some people are strange and do stuff like that), and someone found the page of symbols. Honestly, some people are dum.

[Wayfarer]

You people in 'civilization' have a serious problem.

Many, Many of my friends are avid tolkien fans. I helps that I splug every time I get the chance.

Recently, someone I know went off about the harry potter movie. Half the people in the room answered with variations of "Lord of the Rings. That's all I have to say".

I love the middle of nowhere.

[Legolas]

Three of my best friends have read the book when they were very young and now they have persuaded me to read the book. I've read it and I liked it very much.
For the runes - I know them all, I often write with them (even in physics or maths notebooks) and if anyone asks what it is, I say: "These are the old scandinavian runes". They believe it :)
And I'm often chatting with my friends about languages Tolkien invented.

[Losttaliel]

Two of my freinds (even one who hasn't read the book) and I have a symbol we put on everything which is basicaly the first letter of our names in Elfrunes joined up! I soppose in doing that I asked for "devil worshiper". Oh well. :). Tolkein is my mates latest "theme". (Hence the name 'Lostaliel'. Don't ask how I got it, 'Cause I don't know). It's surprising to watch someone whos never read LotR talk about Elves. Honestly, my poor english teacher! Three of us sit in the back of her lesson talking about Elves and Tolkein all lesson (even though 2 of the tree have NO idea!). And because we know about it and she doesn't, she never complains. Last time she tried, I started to quote poetry from LotR, asking for pointers from the others. And she can't complain about Tolkein's Poetry! It's excelent, as far as it goes in an English lesson. Especialy the ryming scheme. They should have done our Poetry module on his stuff. Poor woman. Scared her, I think. After all, she'd just quoted "All that is gold does not glitter, all who wader are not lost" :-D

[Losttaliel]

Two of my freinds (even one who hasn't read the book) and I have a symbol we put on everything which is basicaly the first letter of our names in Elfrunes joined up! I soppose in doing that I asked for "devil worshiper". Oh well. :). Tolkein is my mates latest "theme". (Hence the name 'Lostaliel'. Don't ask how I got it, 'Cause I don't know). It's surprising to watch someone whos never read LotR talk about Elves. Honestly, my poor english teacher! Three of us sit in the back of her lesson talking about Elves and Tolkein all lesson (even though 2 of the tree have NO idea!). And because we know about it and she doesn't, she never complains. Last time she tried, I started to quote poetry from LotR, asking for pointers from the others. And she can't complain about Tolkein's Poetry! It's excelent, as far as it goes in an English lesson. Especialy the ryming scheme. They should have done our Poetry module on his stuff. Poor woman. Scared her, I think. After all, she'd just quoted "All that is gold does not glitter, all who wader are not lost" :-D

[Wayfarer]

Hmmm... Browser troubles?

[fireworks19]

I read the Hobbit in 6th or 7th grade. My friend (at the time) Rachel (aka Galadriel24) had the trilogy and decided to read that. I borrowed it from her....And between us, we got Kelly (Eowyn) to read it. Lately I've making any of my friend who want to see the movie read it....Makes for some interesting conversation.

[Legolas]

Losttaliel, I think your english teacher would find it really great if you quoted her: "A Elbereth Gilthoniel/ Silivren penna miriel" and so on. And if I quoted something to my Lith teacher, she would think that I'm at least idiot :( . That's bad.

[Losttaliel]

Origonaly posted by wayfarer
Hmmm... Browser troubles?

Sorry! yea.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Legolas
Losttaliel, I think your english teacher would find it really great if you quoted her: "A Elbereth Gilthoniel/ Silivren penna miriel" and so on. And if I quoted something to my Lith teacher, she would think that I'm at least idiot :( . That's bad.

I'm not that dumb! She'd eat me alive!. Should have said his "english poetry". Like some of the stuff in The lost tales. He was a truely skilled poet.

-L

[Wayfarer]

lammas is gone, the harvest moon has waned
Summer is dying that so briefly reigned
now the proud elm, at last, begin to quail,
their leaves uncounted tremble, and go pale
seeing afar the icy spears, of winter march to battle with the sun.
When bright all hallows fades, their day is done
and born on wings of amber wan they fly,
in heedless winds, beneath a sullen sky,
and fall like dying birds apon the mere.

~JRR Tolkien 'Kortirion'

P.S... Does anybody know where I can find a transcript of the poem 'Goblin Feet'? I've been having a deuce of a time... but I guess that's because tolkien hated it.

[Comic Book Guy]

Goblin Feet
by J.R.R. Tolkien


I am off down the road
Where the fairy laterns glowed
And the little pretty flitter-mice are flying"
A sleder band of gray
It runs creepily away
And the hedges and the grasses are a-sighing.
The air is full of wings,
And of blundery beetle-things
That warn you with their whirring and their humming.
O! I hear the tiny horns
Of enchanted leprechauns
And the padded feet of many gnomes a-coming!

O! the lights! O! the gleams! O! the little twikly sounds!
O! the rustle of their noisless little robes!
O! the echo of their feet-of their happy little feet!
O! the swinging lamps in the starlit globes.

I msut follow in their train
Down the crooked fairy lane
Where the coney-rabbits long ago have gone,
And where silvery they sing
In a mooving moonlit ring
All a twinkle with the jewels they ahve on.
They are fading round the turn
Where the glowworms palely burn
And the echo of their padding feet is dying!
O! it's knocking at my heart-
Let me go! O! let me start!
For the little magic hours ar all a-flying.

O! the warmth! O! the hum! O! the colors in the dark!
O! the guazy wings of golden honey-flies!
O! the music of their feet-of ther dancing goblin feet!
O! the magic O! the sorrow when it dies.



Leprechauns and Fairys and Gnomes oh my!

[Treebeard's apprentice]

The problem with fantasy is that in most cases it is seen as "escape" or "commercial" literature.

First, I must say that all literature is "commercial" in the sense that writers write books to make money, pure and simple. Did Shakespeare write plays becuase he wanted people to gain a higher knowledge of the world around them? Maybe, but he did it mostly for the money.

Second, it is true that most fantasy is "escape literature," so most people assume LotR falls in that category. Besides the fact that it takes a lot of school time to read a trilogy, LotR is not taught because literary critics assume there are no symbols or themes or any other of those stupid literary devices that scholars and professors make up to keep themselves in a job.

I also think they don't want English classes to be fun.

[Legolas]

Originally posted by Treebeard's apprentice
I also think they don't want English classes to be fun.

That's where I fully agree to you! And that's the same for Lithuanian classes in my country.

[Losttaliel]

Originally posted by Treebeard's apprentice
I also think they don't want English classes to be fun.

Fun english classes would just be scary... and we may LEARN something! That shouldn't happen in a SCHOOL!

[ArwenEvenstar]

My english teacher is stupid.;)

I asked her one day is we were going to read the Hobbit or LOTR or something else by Tolkien and she looked at me like I was a retard or something (excuse my language,im not racist, but that's how I felt she looked at me...)So now my boyfriend and I are reading LOTR well she's yapping about these stupid SCIFI stories (I don't have anything against SCIFI but these stories SUCK!!) She really hates me and my BF so we ignore her- its partly her fault maybe if we read something decent for our Vocabulary lesson.... So we pass notes right infront of her in The Angerthas:) We're pretty bad but she's so boring. Like fall asleep....

But grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I totally wish we could read The Hobbit or The Silmarillion or Unfinshed Tales or- well you get the point;)

[Wayfarer]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
she looked at me like I was a retard or something (excuse my language,im not racist, but that's how I felt she looked at me...)

Um... forgive me... bus since when does the word retard have racial implications?

[Bradistic]

Despite the fact that my 9th grade English teacher was a pompous pervert, I did like one thing about him. I remember that he suggested that we read tLOTR as outside reading. He was actually an ok guy (despite the accuracy of my above description) because I argued with him a lot and he both argued back and didn't dislike me for it. Second semester we changed teachers, and hit the jackpot. Our new teacher was extremely easy and had us read cool stuff like "The Cask of Amontillado" by Edgar Allan Poe and other cool works I can't remember the names of (apparently some English teachers actually are cool). In 10th grade we had to read The Tale of Two Cities. I thought the last section was very good, but the first two were horribly long and boring, probably because Charles Dickens wrote it in weekly installments and got paid for the number of words he wrote. My teacher liked to talk a lot about what we were reading so we got through about 100 pages in three weeks. Then he told us to finish it over spring break. I was maybe one of three people in the class who actually read it from cover to cover. I am not sure if tLOTR should be made required curriculum because it is so long that I would be afraid that many students both wouldn't read it all and wouldn't take it seriously. There are also too many teachers who are too anti-fantasy and stupid to teach it properly. I say that it is best not to force the greatness of tLOTR upon those who won't appreciate it, besides if too many people liked then it wouldn't be as cool. Moving on to the rest of my high school English career, my 11th grade teacher was very intelligent (This if funny because I know her daughter and she is very stupid) and we mostly just read books and talked about them in class. This was pretty easy for me. Unfortunately she actually expected us to care about what we were reading, but fortunately I actually did care about some of it and was able to fake it for rest of the year. I didn't like my current 12th grade English teacher at first, but I began to warm up to him when I heard that in another class he said that he like me because I was very intellectual. Maybe I will have to start throwing some tLOTR stuff into my essays to see what his position is upon the topic.

[Elrond]

Must be incompatant

[Quickbeam]

my english teacher hasn't read it either, but my health techer is on his 5th time!! Every time i have health we talk about LOTR. It's pretty cool.

[Elrond]

Sounds like a pretty good setup.

[garrfin]

does anyone know where you could get a copy of the books in french?Or if one exists?

[Elvellon]

I believe you can by a copy of Le Seigneur des Anneaux at Amazon, else you can always try a French site like Fnac.

[Bacchus]

Don't know where to buy it, but I have a French copy of Le Silmarillion.

[Losttaliel]

Why have u got coppies in FRENCH :confused: ? sounds freaky, strange, and difficult to read!

[Bacchus]

A couple of buddies of mine got it for me as a souvenir from Europe. It's a good way to polish language skills. (Not that my French is very good)

[Losttaliel]

Originally posted by Bacchus
A couple of buddies of mine got it for me as a souvenir from Europe. It's a good way to polish language skills. (Not that my French is very good)

You CAN read it? Wow. I couldn't read anything in french to save my life; I can't say anything other than "Do you speak enlgish"! AND I've been over there (The food is great; the place is alright, the language is terrible!).

[Bacchus]

well... I can muddle my way through, or I could a few years ago anyway. It does help that I've read it in English many times.

[Losttaliel]

Well, I suppose that would explin it! Reading it and reading the english one... Though the grammer in the french one is weird. Or should be, anyhow. :-)

[Bacchus]

The grammar and sentence structure in French is different, of course, but my major difficulties with the language are in vocabulary. Since I already have a pretty good idea what is going to happen, and I understand French grammar rules (to an extent, anyway), I can usually deduce the French vocabulary with which I am unfamiliar. I don't have any illusions that this makes me fluent, however.

[arynetrek]

where did you find a Lithuanian class? are you living in Lithuania & taking it as an "our country's literature" class? or do you live somewhere that they offer the language as an elective?

the Tolkien class at Rice -
when i was a senior in HS Rice kept sending me information & packets & nearly begged me to apply - i didn't mostly because i needed to take a break from school & knew that when i did go back i'd have to get out of TX, but there was a part of my mind that kept telling me "apply, there's something there for you..." i guess that class was calling to me - unfortunately the school i'm in now doesn't have a fantasy-based lit class, but i'm in an art school that is *NOT* known for its academics.

maybe a Spanish LotR would help me relearn the language - or maybe i should go to the Spanish forum here & make a fool out of myself...

aryne *

[Ace]

Alright, you two break it up. Tolkien originally wrote the Hobbit as a children's story and he was subsequently inspired to write LOTR, not because he loved language, though his love of language is apparent and certainly aids his writing. Receiving Oxford's highest award for Philology, not LOTR says something.

As for English, it is worthwhile to all of you who says it isn't, if you love Tolkien and haven't read Milton or Dante or Spencer is to read Tolkien and not know where the roots are. LOTR is an epic, and in my opinion and many others a great one. Proudly carrying the tradition of "Paradise Lost". English teachers who have not read it, they suck, all that I have had that are worth their salt have read them.

"If the choice be mine, I say, we march!"

[Ace]

"You two break it up" was directed to Kirinski54 and Ghost of Tolkien

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Ace
"You two break it up" was directed to Kirinski54 and Ghost of Tolkien

My dear Ace, how far can it be broken up? My last post was a month ago! :rolleyes:

[Wayfarer]

Well... Stop it anyway!

[Ace]

Oops, my mistake. :o

[Legolas]

Originally posted by arynetrek
where did you find a Lithuanian class? are you living in Lithuania & taking it as an "our country's literature" class? or do you live somewhere that they offer the language as an elective?


I live in Lithuania, yes. I was talking about my literature class, where we study the literature of whole world, not only Lithuania.

Well, and there is a talk about French here... Moi, je parle francais, oui. Does any of you know how is the ring's inscription translated in French?
The word-by-word translation of the inscription from Lithuanian would be: "This ring has all the power,/ he can the widely spreaded rings/ find, gather and with the dark will/ enchained connect in the Dark Mordor". As you see, it's very different from the original inscription, and this was made only to make rhyme. So does French have a different, or a word-by-word translation?

[crow]

Ghost of Tolkien, I really like what you posted. I have not yet fully absorbed what you wrote and I'm not sure if I agree with all, or any, of your ideas. It was witty, though. That's always endearing to me.

[Gildor]

Do not despair. I am a teacher, and oddly enough, I have read Lord of the Rings many times. It is on my reading list and I encourage students to read it. True, not everyone enjoys every genre, but I have yet to find someone who actually read the book and didn't like it.

p.s. I also like Pride and Prejudice, Hamlet, Count of Monte Cristo, The "Mutiny on the Bounty" Trilogy and many many more. (trashy romance novels excluded) In defense of what your teachers teach, however, I have to say that sometimes they have no choice. The scope and sequence, textbook availability, etc. dictates their lesson plans. When I taught English, however, I had much more leeway in the matter. As long as it was in our literature book or grammar or spelling or vocabulary....I could teach it.

There are many wonderful books in this world. Maybe you will be the ones to write more...who knows?

[CardenIAntauraNauco]

I saw that the number of visits was 666. I thought fast and decided to change the number before we brought any evil powers upon our thread:D

[Mark of Cenla]

I am a high school English teacher, and I have read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings multiple times. I make my students read a book every grading period, but I let them choose the books. Some of them are reading Tolkien, and when they do, I make it a point to discuss it with them.
I am not a literature snob at all. Many "classics" are very boring to me. There is just too much out there to say what is good or essential reading. Peace.

[kennebecc]

Boy, now all you young 'uns have done it. Two English teachers in a row, and a school Media Specialist popping in to refute your claims.

My experience is that students as a whole are just not interested in reading Tolkien. There appear to be a very select group of young people (and, older people too) willing to slug through the prose to get to the story.

The schools that I've been associated with have The Hobbit as part of the curriculum. Students hate it. They don't get it, and they don't want to read it. They think Bilbo is foolish, and the adventure ridiculous. They would much prefer going to the movies and watching Star Wars. Honest. I've heard them. But, not everyone. Every once in awhile, you see that spark, which is, of course, what every teacher hopes to see . . and the spark, is the joy of reading, of just picking up that book, and discovering that you can be transported to another world.

At the moment I have four classes of 6th and 7th graders, and we are reading The Hobbit. This was in anticipation of the movie, since I realized that a back ground would be helpful. Out of about 40 students, I can think of only 2 who went ahead and read the LOTR. The rest are still struggling with The Hobbit. But, boy have we had fun with it. I am thinking of having them construct a map of ME, in order to trace Bilbo's trek. I'm hoping that the spark has been lit, but still not sure. It will be interesting, after the holidays, to see what their reaction to the movie will be.

Oh, and by the way, nearly every teacher on staff here has eagerly awaited LOTR. Our budget was frozen or the school would have rented the nearest theater for a private showing. (We got Harry Potter in, but not LOTR). Just thought you all might be mildly interested from this other perspective. Incidentally, Fantasy/SF literature is not for everyone. There are many who do not enjoy it, and I respect that. It is part of what makes us all individuals. But, if just for one moment, I could get them to 'see' this fantastic world . . . :p