Do elves have magic?

[Elessar_elfstone]

If I am not wrong... I have not seen any elf work magic in the LOTR, Silmarillion and HObbit if I am not wrong,

Unless you can count

Elrond controllling the river and washed aways the Nazgul in Rivendell

or

Galadriel's phail and the part meeting with Frodo

1) Both of them had Rings of Power and did they work magic only with the help of rings or do elves posses magic?

2) Fëanor created the Silmarils due to his talent and knowledge or did magic play a role in it?

[Ñólendil]

You seem to share the view of Sam Gamgee. I think perhaps you are not looking close enough. A lot of the magic in Eä is right down deep in the subtle parts. But we do know for certain that Elves 'did' magic, letters from Tolkien specifically say this. I think all Races could, but that is a matter of debate.

Just a thought: surely we can agree that Finrod's battle with Sauron with songs of power and enchantment was an example of an Elf 'doing magic'?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Didn't Tolkien say that the Elves did not call it magic, but an art?

Then there is also the part in the Sil. where Finrod changes himself and his companions into the likeness of Orcs. I believe Tolkien used the word arts in this instance saying : "by the arts of Felagund, their own forms and faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs."

Then we have Luthien and the spell that she placed over Angband and Morgoth with her singing, when she and Beren took the Silmaril. Of course, Luthien was part Maia.

[Elessar_elfstone]

I'm not sure about this, but maybe the magic bestowed to elves are not very powerful that can be used only in certain circumstances?

Because it is seldom metioned that elves used magic...

[Selwythe]

I agree that it was only art. What might be normal to the elves might not be for us. A bird can see a human open a door with his hands and exclaim that it just beheld magic, when it is just a natural interaction with the environment

[galadriel]

Exactly. When the Elves of Lothlorien were asked if their cloaks were "magic", they could only reply that they were Elvish cloaks, and did not understand what was meant by magic. What we would consider magic was a natural part of their existance.

[afro-elf]

it seems this and the balrog will not go away :)


In LOTR at the gates of moria gandalf says something like

" i used to know every spell in the tongues of ELVES, men and orcs for such a purpose"


even dwarves in the hobbit laid spells around their buried treasure



the term used in the books was SPELLS

take that however you want


but I think it is just a cultural paradigm that is causing the problem.

since elves are more intimate with it they call it art. it isn't SOOO mystical to them.

but because it is rarer among the younger races they call it magic

so maybe the argument is just over semantics

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by afro-elf
the term used in the books was SPELLS

take that however you want


It seems that spell is also an old english word for "speech".

However, I think when used by Tolkien spell is usually meant as "magic formula".

[Ñólendil]

I completely agree with you afroelf.

[afro-elf]

I completely agree with you afroelf.

you obviously are a genius :)

[Selwythe]

Gandalf's not an elf. He's of higher being.

And as for the Dwarves...the spells they lay on their treasure reminds me of the Curse of the Pharaoh. Possibly true, but an utter lot of bull.

That rhymed, didn't it?

No one can prove in real life if the Curse exists, just like the spells and curses treasure of the dwarves.

And in true afro-elf fashion...

Exactly

galadriel obviously is a genius too ;)

[afro-elf]

When did someone mention Gandalf was an Elf?


I do not have the Hobbit here. Is it possible to for someone to post what it says in there when the dwarves laid their spells?



Didn't men and dwarves forge "magic" weapons.



My statement DID NOT disagree with Galadriel.

I actually said the same thing

So yes she is a genius also :)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Tolkien uses the word magic in the song of power between Sauron and Felagund:

"The chanting swelled, Felagund faught
All the magic and might he brought
Of Elveness into his words
Softly in the gloom, they heard the birds
Singing afar in Nargothrond"

In what context is Tolkien useing the word "magic"?

[ArwenEvenstar]

well im now all messed up u ppl should be ashmed!I'm almost a genious some times. You other genious types are geniouses

[Comic Book Guy]

'Magic' is a nature to elves, like the way Legolas could stand on snow, and the rest of the fellowship were knee deep in it. (This is very nicely seen in the latest trailer)

A good quote that refers to what most of the posters here are discussing about, is in the chapter, the mirror of Galadriel.


'And you? ' she said, turning to Sam. 'For this is what your folk would call magic. I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic? '


She speaks to Sam as 'Magic' is normal to her, but to simple hobbits, something strange and usual.

[afro-elf]

welcome to the ever expanding genius squad

[Ñólendil]

lol

[Bregalad]

I hope ya'all, won't get all hasty on me. I hearby do state that this is but an opinion :D I like to discuss the possible philoshophy of a thing. I have absolutely no facts to back this up.

Any people call forces they do not understand "magic". When asked if the cloaks are "magic" the elves express puzzlement at the term. The elves understand how the cloaks work, there is nothing magical about them as far as the elves believe. But the elves certainly must understand forces of nature that humans, and hobits do not. The elves may use natural forces of nature to create a chameleon cloak, and to the elves that would simply be a natural or scientific process, because their understanding of that process is far beyond that of the hobbits. Airplanes and TV would seem like magic to more primative cultures of this world, and we couldn't even explain to them why we think they are not magic, because they lack the technology to understand.