The surprisingly genial Halflings

[Ñólendil]

In Book II, Lothlórien, Haldir has some interesting comments for the Hobbits:

'But we have heard rumour of your coming, for the messengers of Elrond passed by Lórien on their way home up the Dimrill Stair. We had not hear of -- hobbits, of halflings, for many a long year, and did not know that any yet dwelt in Middle-earth. You do not look evil! And since you come with an Elf of our kindred, we are willing to befriend you, as Elrond asked; though it is not our custom to lead strangers through our land. But you must stay here tonight. How many are you?'

'You do not look evil'. Why would Haldir say that? Other characters like Boromir and Theoden were surprised to see Halflings because they thought them merely a part of fairy-story. But Haldir thought the Hobbits had died out, and knew of them before. They seem to have had an evil name. Or is there another interpretation?

Later he says: 'The four hobbits shall climb up here and stay with us -- we do not fear them! There is another talan in the next tree. There the others must take refuge.

In the Prologue for the Lord of the Rings Tolkien writes that At no time had Hobbits of any kind been warlike, and they had never fought among themselves. In olden days they had, of course, been often obliged to fight to maintain themselves in a hard world; but in Bilbo's time that was very ancient history.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Hobbits of any kind would have fought the Elves of the Vales of Anduin.

So what's the meaning of Haldir's words: 'you do not look evil!'? Could they have had an (untrue) evil name in folklore? But Haldir's people had known Hobbits before.

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

are you maybe reading a little too much into this?

[Ñólendil]

I guess you mean I'm taking it too seriously. I don't think so. I study it, so I want to know.

[ringbearer]

I think Haldir is just stating his first impression. I do not think the hobbits had a reputation.

[galadriel]

Probably not. I find it a stretch to think of hobbits as having a bad reputation. More likely, Haldir was worried that they'd changed their ways in the time since he'd last heard of them. With all of the turmoil going on at the end of the Third Age, you can never be sure who's good and who's evil, even if you're talking about a small, furry-footed, slightly plump, good-natured hobbit. Better to be safe than sorry!

[Kirinki54]

During the long years, the Elves of Lothlorien had grown rather xenophobic. There where races like the Dwarves which simply did not have access (see the problems for Gimli resulting in the whole Company wandering blindfolded).
Now emerges people from a race of Hobbits that is almost unknown to them. Haldir, Rumil and Orophin are posted a guards at the border. No wonder they are relieved to exclaim: "You do not look evil!" (because after Elrond´s messengers I think they knew they had to let them into the realm anyway).

As for the Hobbits sleeping in the talan with the Lothlorien Elves, they were not afraid of them. But in the other talan would be a creature of ill repute, that is the poor Dwarf Gimli. He still poses a threat to them, up until Galadriel and Celeborn has vouched for him. (Something that even Celeborn later was reluctant to do!)

So I think that it is unlikely that the Hobbits ever possessed an evil reputation; mostly they were unknown.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Perhaps Haldir was reflecting on his own past history that Elves were easily seduced by things evil that seemed fair. There would seem to be some paranoia at work on his part, and maybe it was due to the company that the Hobbits were with. An untrusting of Men and the presents of a Dwarf maybe made him question in his mind the messangers of Elrond. Had the Hobbits been alone this may not have been the reaction. And, he does say that they do not fear the Hobbits.

[Bregalad]

OK, so, I have no way to prove this, and I'm not even saying it's true. It's just a wild thought I found kicking around in my head. I have often wondered about the very question Inoldonil writes, because when Haldir says "you do not look evil!" with that exclamation point of suprise, it does seem to me that he has heard some old evil tale of hobbitses. Perhaps, if what he heard was speaking of the ancient Hobbit-like race that brought us Gollum, they weren't as nice a folk as today's Hobbits. Although I still would be hard pressed to consider them "evil". Also that exclamation point of suprise might imply he was making a joke at the Hobbits expense. They certainly don't look very terrifying, do they! :p But this explanation doesn't satisfy me either, for though the elves are a merry folk, and have been known to tease the "short-lifers", it seems strange that one would so openly tease someone on such short aquaitance.

[Neithan]

Hi! I`m new here so hello everybody!

I dont think the hobbits where reguarded as evil or bad. But I think the where heard of in almost every region. Probably where the "tale" of the halflings told by drifters,wanderers and rangers. These "tales" where probably reguarded as fairytales and goodnightstories for children,and not taken seriously. And I think that,with a little help of TIME,these "stories" changed to things like: "if you`re not a nice little boy,the halflings will come and take you." That is probably why Haldir greeted them with:
"you dont LOOK evil."

And ofcourse he was quite right.

This is just my small thoughts.

I beg you to differ!!!

[Thrain of the Shire]

Ah yes well, as nominal leader of this noble (but short) species, I thought I could suggest a couple of things here.

First, i agree with the xenophobia remark -- perhaps it was "you don't look evil" as in "you actually look quite friendly and I wonder if I can trust that impression" rather than "I expected you to look eveil and youdon't" surprise.

Another thought occurred to me, with no support from any of JRR's transcriptions of our Hobbit texts -- Bilbo developed quite a reputation as a sneak thief, what with the expedition and stealing the ring from Smaug -- PLUS he had travelled with 13 dwarves....so maybe if this was all their recent news of hobbits (that they travelled with dwarves and stole things) you could forgive them for expecting something that perhaps wasn't so friendly and good of appearance...

just a thought....

good question!

[Earniel]

I think I agree with Thrain here (yes, yes I know that's a cheap way but I couldn't have said it any better):)

[Laurelyn]

Yes, like Earniel, I agree with Thrain of the Shire, and I couldn't have said it better either.
Btw, Earniel, how do you get the two little dots over the a in your name???

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Laurelyn
Btw, Earniel, how do you get the two little dots over the a in your name???

On my key board there is one key, on the right of my board, that in conbination with SHIFT gives those two dots and then you type the 'a' and you get 'ä'

[Ñólendil]

Laurelyn, just make sure the num lock is on, hold down 'Alt' and type 132 on the number pad on the right side of your key-board.

[Neithan]

When Theoden meets Merry and Pippin,he denies Rohan having any tales about hobbits. At least when he left for Isengard. But he mention some ancient tale,from when his people wandered down from the north,about halflings. The tale say that they lived in holes in the ground and that smoke came from their mouths. Obviously he was talking about hobbits. And ofcourse the people of Rohan came wandering down from the north a very,very,very long time before Bilbo was even thought of. So I think Tolkien has etstablished that the "tales" of halflings/hobbits didn`t came to Rohan, as a result of Bilbo`s action in his adventure with the 13 dwarves.

[Thorondor]

Consider also that halflings seem to be associated in lore (and dreams) with dark days and events.

There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur's Bane shall waken
And the Halfling forth shall stand


This is Boromir's dream but the elves of Lothlorian may have had similar visions.

[azalea]

I don't think they were ever regarded as evil; I think that he was indeed just saying, with a smile, "YOU obviously will not pose us any threat, so I have no compunction about your crossing the border". The use of the word evil being a humorous exaggeration -- using the most opposite word he could find, almost like sarcasm. I know the characterizations in LotR changed from The Hobbit, but remember the elves' greeting of Bilbo and the dwarves in Rivendell? I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that Lorien elves would have a sense of humor, even in difficult times.

[barrelrider110]

Interesting that one line should generate so much discussion, but that’s one of the things that makes Tolkien’s work so endearing.

The Lothlorien elves were not only xenophobic but had become reclusive within the world of Elves at large. Bilbo and Frodo had contact with Elves in the past, and were considered Elf-friends which was remarkable enough in itself and I think they enjoyed an excellent reputation among Elves in general.
we are willing to befriend you, as Elrond asked; though it is not our custom to lead strangers through our land.
It is clear that Elrond’s request is no guarantee that the fellowship would be befriended or even granted admission into Lorien. It is evident that Haldir’s orders were firm but somewhat discretionary. Perhaps he was told something like “admit them unless you perceive them evil”. I think that Haldir is merely being facetious and was perhaps mocking his instructions when he exclaims, “You do not look evil!”

[Elf Girl]

My, this is an ancient thread! I don't think there were stories along the lines of "the halflings will get you" because Elves are immortal, many of Haldirs friends may have seen them with their own eyes.