The Nazgul

[afro-elf]

the nazgul are a bit of an enigma a few questions:

did only the lord of the wraith have the black breath? or did they all?


there were five on weathertop why didn't they just kill aragorn, all he had was a broken sword and two burnining sticks

why didn't the black breath affect them there?

it seems some could resist the fear of the wraiths or was it only the lord who had the fear affect?

was it a matter of will?

aragorn and eowyn seemed resist it

hell aragorn (and boromir) were gonna go after the balrog when
legolas and gimli were breaking for it

for being the DREAD witch king he didn't seem to manifest as a badass until the seige return of the king

the others didn't seem to be so terrible ( of course i'd not wanna meet any of them)


was it khamul who was first at gol duldur (?)
it would seem he would have been a major butt kicker

[ladyisme]

One thing at a time please! I think I can answer why they didn't finish everyone off at Weathertop, though I don't pretend to be an expert on the black riders. They allowed themselves to be driven away after hurting Frodo because they thought that all they had to do was follow and be patient and Frodo would keel over on his own, like wolves trailing a sick deer. However the riders underestimated their prey giving Frodo a chance to escape in the end.

"The road goes ever on and on down from the door where it began."

[afro-elf]

ladyisme

i can go for that answer

sorry about the deluge of questions :)

[afro-elf]

Even more questions


Was only the Lord of the Nazgul "immune" to weapons

what if glamdring would have struck him?

and that hard to read prophecy

"not by man" well that could mean not male or non human

It say that the Nazgul were only a shadow of their terror with sauron and the one ring


That means that during the second age they had to be REALLY terrible

The witch king was about to fight gandalf the WHITE and sauron had not the ring.

If sauron had the ring could the the witch king defeat the balrog?

[Elfmaster XK]

Eep! Too many question...brain stuck...

the others didn't seem to be so terrible ( of course i'd not wanna meet any of them)

Ya know, i think you're right. But then, perhaps you're trying to read into them too much. They're supposed to be mystereious and scary.

[Elf Girl]

I think all of them had the fear effect, but the Witch-king's was strongest.

[Nazgûl Queen]

Yes, we all had the black breath and aura of fear although the Witch King (and I) was strongest...

The reason normal blades don't hurt us is because we are immaterial so they go straight through us.

And the reason we fled is because the words that Frodo spoke drove us away.

And we were MUCH more terrible when Sauron had the ring, although we would not have been able to defeat one of the Balrogs alone (they are Maia like Sauron)

[Elfhelm]

Right! Not by man. It was the combination of a Hobbit and a human woman.

Their power is tied to Sauron's and grows with his. They couldn't even ride forth until he arrived from Mirkwood.

[Khamûl]

To try to answer a few of your questions: It was Khamûl who was in charge at Dol Goldur. On Weathertop, even though there were only five, maybe they (and Sauron) weren't yet powerful enough to take on someone like Aragorn. Some people were strong enough and had enough mastery over themselves that they didn't let the Nazgûl get to them and put fear into their hearts.

And yes, I am a major butt kicker. (That wuss of a witch-king doesn't even have a proper name):D

[afro-elf]

The reason normal blades don't hurt us is because we are immaterial so they go straight through us.

the thing about the blades was that any blade that touched
the witch king would disintergrate

And yes, I am a major butt kicker. (That wuss of a witch-king doesn't even have a proper name)
lol

[Wulažg]

Of course the Withch King of Angmar was going to fight Gandalf


"I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is stronger still"(LoRII103)


The reall question is whether Gandalf counted as a "man" and so could he have theoretically have killed the Witch King?

[afro-elf]

Well, there is a difference between killing and defeating.

but Black is stronger still"(


OH yeah :D

[Ñólendil]

Forgive me if I am redundant, I've only read the first post.

there were five on weathertop why didn't they just kill aragorn, all he had was a broken sword and two burnining sticks

They were frightened away by the name of Elbereth and the burning sticks. They greatly feared fire. Anyway, although I am sure they could have won a fight with Aragorn, it may have cost them more than was felt necessary. Aragorn may have been able to greatly wound or even kill one of them (well, maybe). In any case, they were after Frodo.

why didn't the black breath affect them there?

I'm not sure, but I think you have to actually touch a Nazgul to "catch" it. The Witch King of the War of the Ring we should remember isn't exactly the Witch King of The Ring Sets Out. The former, Tolkien once wrote, was filled and enhanced with Sauron's demonic power. The latter, the Witchking of Weathertop, was not. The Black Breath may have been more powerful coming from the Witchking after being enhanced by Sauron.

it seems some could resist the fear of the wraiths or was it only the lord who had the fear affect?

They all did. This was a fact. Their chief weapon was unreasoning terror.

aragorn and eowyn seemed resist it

I think courage certainly is something that at a certain level can overcome the terror, whatever you believe "courage" is. Eowyn, though, I think she embraced it more than anything else. She welcomed death, she desired "glorious death".

hell aragorn (and boromir) were gonna go after the balrog when
legolas and gimli were breaking for it

That's just pure valour, I think. Anyway the Balrog is not the Nazgul.

was it khamul who was first at gol duldur (?)
it would seem he would have been a major butt kicker

Yes. Khamul ruled there, with one other Nazgul in service to him and a messenger-Nazgul going back and forth between Guldur and Minas Morgul where the other six were.

[Snowdog]

The origins of the nine is intriguing, for only a couple are ever mentioned. Am I right in believing that the Witch king was of Numenorean descent?

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

I think he was.

[Ñólendil]

Yes. I believe somewhere it is written that three of the Nazgûl were Dúnedain. 'Course Khamûl was an Easterling.

[Snowdog]

Right, I remember reading that somewhere too. There was quite a bit of Numenorean settlements down the coast of Harad, and the Corsairs of Umbar... quite iteresting the effect the 9 rings had on men.

[Llark silverwolf]

right on brother!:cool: i heard that three

[entss89]

I DONT KNOW ETHER SOME ONE HELP ME OUT!:D

[Celebrian]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Forgive me if I am redundant, I've only read the first post.

I'm not sure, but I think you have to actually touch a Nazgul to "catch" it. The Witch King of the War of the Ring we should remember isn't exactly the Witch King of The Ring Sets Out. The former, Tolkien once wrote, was filled and enhanced with Sauron's demonic power. The latter, the Witchking of Weathertop, was not. The Black Breath may have been more powerful coming from the Witchking after being enhanced by Sauron.


If you have to touch them how come Merry fainted in Bree, he only saw a Nazgul, I don't think he touched it until after he was unconcious. Maybe it is just much worse if you touch them?:confused:

[Ñólendil]

If you have to touch them how come Merry fainted in Bree, he only saw a Nazgul, I don't think he touched it until after he was unconcious. Maybe it is just much worse if you touch them?

He fainted, but he didn't come down with the Black Breath. He would have been very sick if he had.

[nazgul prince]

Afro-elf brought up a good point. Could glamdring kill any of the ringwraiths.Or better yet anduril.Anduril does glow with fire,could it peirce the nazgul's enchantment.I always wanted to see either gandalf or aragorn take on the witch king one on one.

[Ñólendil]

The blades of Cardolan that Bombadil gave the Hobbits were enchanted specifically with spells laid for the ruin of Angmar. I think maybe this sort of thing was required to make any of the Nazgûl, or at least the Witch King, vulnerable. After that any blade could kill them, as the ordinary one wielded by Éowyn.

[nazgul prince]

Yes true, but who taught the dunadan how to make such weopons>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Noldor Elves >>>>>>>> forged glamdring and reforged narsil/anduril.

[Beruthiel]

The Witch King was killed by Eowyn as per Glorfindel's prophesy.

No one seems to be interested as to why only a woman could kill it:

This is rooted in deep mystery! Think of your myths. Woman has the power over life and death. It it her birthright. Tolkien added this into his story as a sort of nod to the old stories of Goddesses of War and Rebirth.

[BeardofPants]

Maybe so, but her blade was not able to pierce his ugly hide, until Merry's blade, imbued with specific spells had undone his invulnerability.

Also: you could argue that hobbit does not fall under the mantle of man.

[Bertuthiel]

Yah, I always thought it was kind of a cooincidence the Merry should have the right "dagger/blade" at the right time! And to think that the Hobbits carried them so non-chalantly. Could it be the the others might have done more damage on Weathertop, if they had been used correctly? For, didn't Pippin and Sam get one each too?

[entss89]

too manyyyyyyyyyy ????????????????? brainnnnnnnnnnnnnn hurtsssssssssssssssssssss!

no im fine and i think they all have the breath kikin thing going on!

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Bertuthiel
Yah, I always thought it was kind of a cooincidence the Merry should have the right "dagger/blade" at the right time! And to think that the Hobbits carried them so non-chalantly. Could it be the the others might have done more damage on Weathertop, if they had been used correctly? For, didn't Pippin and Sam get one each too?

Coincidence? Perhaps. But remember that the Barrows were within the region of the ancient realm of angmar, and that the barrows were spirits sent out of this realm to inhabit the barrows. During the period of war, there must have been quite a few numenorean blades made specifically to deal with the nazgul in this region; and left there until the Hobbits happened through. Also: remember that the barrow that Frodo was in was rumoured to be that of a King.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by entss89
too manyyyyyyyyyy ????????????????? brainnnnnnnnnnnnnn hurtsssssssssssssssssssss!

no im fine and i think they all have the breath kikin thing going on!

Was that really necesary? :rolleyes:

[entss89]

I GUESS NOT! IM SORRY! I WILL TRY NOT TO DO IT AGAIN:(

[Caleb]

Shame on you.

[Elvellon]

Afro-Elf wrote:
it seems some could resist the fear of the wraiths or was it only the lord who had the fear affect?

was it a matter of will?

aragorn and eowyn seemed resist it

Ñolendil wrote:

I think courage certainly is something that at a certain level can overcome the terror, whatever you believe "courage" is. Eowyn, though, I think she embraced it more than anything else. She welcomed death, she desired "glorious death".



Nah, they just made their saving throws… :rolleyes:

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Elvellon
Nah, they just made their saving throws… :rolleyes:

I guess elves get the ghost scorn and light of the noldor bonus

Aragorn the Lord of Men Bonus

eowyn the death wishing chick bonus

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by Bertuthiel
Yah, I always thought it was kind of a cooincidence the Merry should have the right "dagger/blade" at the right time
Bombadil deserves credit as possessing more foresight than most people think. ;)

[Beruthiel]

Bombadil, that's RIGHT! *Cracks her head against the desk* Why didn't I think of that?!
Walks away totally flummoxed.......!!!!:eek:

[Agburanar]

I think people give the Witch King of Angmar too much credit. All the Nazgul would probably have had Morgul knives (or they missed a trick) and Black breath etc. They were all kings weren't they? They all seemed to have dabbled in sorcery and been snared. I don't believe the Witch King was much more powerful than any other Ringwraith except that his realm is in a better position to assault the North west of Middle Earth (The others are off to the south and west of Mordor).