SO fordo and sam

[Play Girl]

Is it just me or are Frodo and Sam gay hobbit lovers. The only thing that got me through book four was the fact the sexual tension was so stong that they might rip each others cloths off at any moment.
My friends say I'm crazy but i have a feeling about this one. What do you think?
Play Girl :p

[Darth Tater]

Your theory is (sadly) shared by many, but is in all honesty rediculous. Tolkien was just about as homophobic as they come (not because of any fault of his own, rather because of the world in which he lived). In his time male companionship was not uncommon, and indeed he spent more time with some of his male friends then he did with his own wife. However, the friendship was in no way sexual, and in those times no one would assume such. Frodo and Sam's relationship is that of the dearest friends. However, in this "sexually liberated" age, any hint of non-heterosexuality is jumped at, and everyone assumes that relationships between males and males or females and females are homosexual, when indeed, as is the case in LOTR, they are simply that of close friends.

[Ñólendil]

Where does what say that Tolkien was homophobic? The only comment I've ever read about coming from him regarding homosexuality was that he hadn't heard of the word in his early teen years.

[IronParrot]

I haven't seen any specific evidence that he was a homophobe, just that he was a very strong/conservative Catholic.

[Sister Golden Hair]

The relationship depicted by Tolkien between Frodo and Sam is a very special friendship not a sexual relationship. There was a loyalty that Sam had to Frodo as his master, but they were the best of friends. There was no one probably that knew or understood Frodo better then Sam. The love between them was loyalty, devotion and the deepest of feelings between friends, and that is all it was.

[Darth Tater]

Tolkien's homophobia is an opinion of my own, after a study of his life. However, I can't stress enough that it exsisted in most people his age, especially in the type of company he kept. If you need examples, one is his dislike for wearing of bright colors (admitedly he liked a bit, but nothing extravagant, he hated extravagance) and his dissapointment at seeing Oxford's faculty turn more liberal and (he assumed at least) homosexual towards the end of his life.

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Play Girl
Is it just me or are Frodo and Sam gay hobbit lovers. The only thing that got me through book four was the fact the sexual tension was so stong that they might rip each others cloths off at any moment.
My friends say I'm crazy but i have a feeling about this one. What do you think?
Play Girl :p

This is preposterous! I mean really, there is not anything more stupid that I have seen in this forum! :mad:

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't know that it is homophobia, as much as it is that Tolkien is , or was just from the old school so to speak. Different values and morals compared to today. In other words, what was unacceptable behavior back then is not so now. He was a strict Catholic, raised in an era of strict values. I think homosexuality was the furthest thing from his mind when he conjured up the characters of Frodo and Sam. If you want to see just how straight minded he was about love Playgirl, read the Silmarillion and of Beren and Luthien, a couple that he fashioned after his own love affair with his wife Edith.

[Play Girl]

I am so sorry if i have offended anyone in this forum and I do appologise. The fact is I do find Sams behavior just a little camp but i wil conced to the fact that it was probably just my imagination running away with me. I am a teenage girl and you know how much we think about sex and seeing as there is not alot in the book i just had to invent some.
Soz again.
Play Girl

PS I am this close to finishing it - wish me luck

[Ñólendil]

I haven't seen any specific evidence that he was a homophobe, just that he was a very strong/conservative Catholic.

Yet I think many of his beliefs and elements in his legendarium were rather radical in the liberal sense, in relation to his faith (and the time he lived in). Swarthy people on both sides of the coin, a female character in the Lord of the Rings that stands up against sexism, Death as a gift from God, and more besides. Perhaps he was not really thinking of everyone when he said it, as some do, but one of his quotes in the Letters that I remember was this: he said he was not a democrat, except that he believed 'all are equal under the Great Author, who has put down the pridefull from their high seat and has exalted the humble'. This last was in latin, a quote from some famous writing.

I'm against the assumption -- however likely based on other known facts -- that someone believes something because of what time or place they live in, without evidence. There were white people on Martin Luther King's side, you know.

Darth, where's this about JRR Tolkien's dislike of Oxford 'turning homosexual'? And bright colours? My aunt is gay, I haven't noticed her wearing unusually bright colours. I can't imagine JRR Tolkien at least giving bright coloured clothing to Hobbits if he thought that was a sign of homosexuality and disliked it. I bet he thought bright colours were just bright colours.

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Play Girl
I am so sorry if i have offended anyone in this forum and I do appologise. The fact is I do find Sams behavior just a little camp but i wil conced to the fact that it was probably just my imagination running away with me. I am a teenage girl and you know how much we think about sex and seeing as there is not alot in the book i just had to invent some.
Soz again.
Play Girl

PS I am this close to finishing it - wish me luck

No offense taken...good luck!

[easterlinge]

There are a number of scenes where male characters are tender to each other..... but not in a hmsxl sense :D :D:

-Aragorn kissing Boromir (in the forehead)

-Faramir looking at Aragorn with love after he was healed

-Gandalf threatening to uncloak in front of Bilbo (it still cracks me up, sorry!! :D :p)

-Bombadil telling the hobbits to run naked on the grass....


But any sxl innuendo was probably unintentional and only in the mind of the reader.



;)

[Finmandos12]

Back then, people just didn't think about gay behavior. I know you're just kidding easterlinge but remember, men in Italy kiss.

And for the record, me being a conservative I have to say this...

Just because you think gay behavior is wrong, doesn't mean you are homophobic (means that you have an irrationalfear of gays). He just disapproved of that behavior.

[Ñólendil]

As a liberal talking to a conservative, I'm glad you feel the fear of gays is irrational, not to mention the fact that you acknowledge it as fear :)

But how do you know that Tolkien disapproved of homosexuality? Besides the time period he lived in, I mean.

[Play Girl]

Woo hoo! I'm finished! And the ending was so nice. I'm glad Sam and Rosie got it together. I would have thought Frodo would have been killed off at the Cracks of Doom but he mad it through and prevented sam form killing himself - woohoo! Finished!
Now what will I read?
Play Girl;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Try the Silmarillion, but be prepared. It is tough, but a fantastic book.

[HOBBIT]

I finished as well. Last night :p although I've known how it ended for quite some time now ;)

[Sakata]

Originally posted by ringbearer


This is preposterous! I mean really, there is not anything more stupid that I have seen in this forum! :mad:

I agree! get your head out of the toilet and grow up!:mad:

[easterlinge]

I forgot to mention Legolas and Gimli running off together in Lothlorien after the "blindfold incident".

Sightseeing of course, and perfectly innocent. Unless you have an Orcish mind. :)

:rolleyes:

[Ñólendil]

Now, now Sakata, plenty of grown-up people have their heads in the toilet too. Remember: one person's toilet is another person's perfectly reasonable sexual-innuendo theory. Or something similar. Say also that he that farts in Church sits in his own pew.

[webwizard333]

I agree with Inoldonil. And look at all the replys in this topic, she knows how to get a conversation going. But, I don't think that any of the male characters were "romantically involved".

[Sakata]

sorry, but I have little tolerance for immaturity

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sakata
sorry, but I have little tolerance for immaturity There isn't much maturity involved when you're only twelve. I think she is mistaken about these characters sexuality or Tolkien's depiction of them, but at least she has attempted to read a quality book, and to define it in her view. That is more then alot of kids do today.

[Ñólendil]

I thought Play Girl's post was humorous, and typical for coming from an 18 year old (so her profile makes her, not twelve). I do not use the word 'typical' in a bad way.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
I thought Play Girl's post was humorous, and typical for coming from an 18 year old (so her profile makes her, not twelve). I do not use the word 'typical' in a bad way. I may have her age confused with another new kid on the board.

[Varda]

I don't think I ever got the innuendo upon first reading, but then I tend not to think that way. Also, I was sort of raised on the animated versions from an age when I didn't even know there was such a thing as homosexuality. But I can see where someone would get that I guess. I also don't think it's likely due to Tolkien's being Christian. Also, to anyone who thinks the concept is immature... that kind of thinking permeates a lot of modern movies, tv shows and other parts of our culture. Tolkien was a product of his culture, and Play Girl is a product of hers.

[Varda]

and it shows her as 16 (bdate 1984)

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

*decides to take a novel aproach*

PlayGirl, how old are you?

Although I don't know for sure what Tolkiens thoughts on homosexuality where, I think we can safely assume that the chances make him opposed to it. Several people have chalenged others (hey, I'm too lazy to go back and look at screen names!) to show them that Tolkien was opposed to homosexuality. But they have not been able to show anything that shows he thought of homosexuals in a good light. But, given that he beleived in the Bible, and that Romans 1 makes clear what the Bible says about homosexuals, I would say that Tolkien was not likely to put homosexuals characters in the role of his main characters.

As for what you should read next, by all means read the Sim! It's harder to read than LOTR because it's more of a history book than a story, but it is VERY interesting! LOTR will mean alot more the next time you read it too.

[Darth Tater]

My thoughts on Tolkien's views regarding homosexuality are based on Carpenter's authorized biography. YOu should read it Inoldonil, it's quite good. Also, that quote is from the Bible! Where have you been? ;)

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Play Girl
I'm glad Sam and Rosie got it together.
Play Girl;)

Yes, in light of the worthy couple actually having thirteen kids, I think we can safely assume that Sam at least had a lot of straight arrows in his quiver.

[Sakata]

okay, 12 years old, I would understand her immaturaty. 16? well I considering I am only 15 I would expect better.

[Ñólendil]

Varda, I don't think it's likely because the notion is ridiculous based on so many things (though Play Girl's post made me laugh in a good way and I think you are all riled up about nothing). As for Tolkien not making his characters gay because he was a Christian, I can only say that there are gay Christians, and Christians who do not believe gays are going to Hell (not to mention Christians that do not believe in a literal Hell anyway). I am in fact a Christian who believes God loves everyone, whether you're straight, gay, black, white, blue or something else (nor do I think less of you if you are an agnostic or an Atheist, please don't think I'm trying to exclude or attack anyone with this controversial post). Call me crazy.

Perhaps I should also say that I don't doubt there are gay people who visit this board frequently. I do not want them to be reminded here that they are of an oppressed minority. Elsewhere there is evidence enough, unfortunately.

Actually (I just read the lurker's post) I am afraid this could turn into a religious debate (read: flame war), and I don't want to contribute to that. Let's not get into the Bible, what it says and how we should interpret it for our own sake.

My thoughts on Tolkien's views regarding homosexuality are based on Carpenter's authorized biography.

I actually have read a bit of that. A bit. In that bit it said that Tolkien claimed not to have heard of the word 'homosexuality' as a young teenager. I don't recall any other passage that talked about Tolkien's views regarding homosexuality. I assume you refer again to his dislike of bright colours and his 'disappointment at seeing Oxford's faculty turn more liberal and (he assumed at least) homosexual towards the end of his life.' Assuming Tolkien didn't like gays because he didn't wear extravagantly bright clothing is ridiculous. Also I must ask again: 'where's this about JRR Tolkien's dislike of Oxford 'turning homosexual'?' If you bring up a quote of Tolkien's which speaks of his dislike of Oxford turning homosexual (or do you think 'liberal' = 'homosexual'?), I'll end my effort to show we don't know what his stance towards homosexuality was (whether he lived a while ago, was straight, Catholic or not).[/long sentence]

People, Play Girl is a teenager, and a normal one. A normal teenager who was bringing up an honest subject. She felt the story implied Sam and Frodo were gay, she was being funny about it (I thought), we all know they're not, it doesn't matter, end of story. Let's not tear eachother's heads off. I almost did just now, before I caught myself.

[Sister Golden Hair]

It's not a big deal.

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

"As for Tolkien not making his characters gay because he was a Christian, I can only say that there are gay Christians, and Christians who do not believe gays are going to Hell"

I often wonder about people who say that gays are going to hell, because it show an EXTREME lack of understanding as to what Christinanity and Salvation are all about and how it works. I will not hide the fact that I consider (based on my reading of the Bible) homosexuality to be a sin, but it is in no way worse than any other sin. There are not levels of sin, there is just sin.


"Actually (I just read the lurker's post) I am afraid this could turn into a religious debate (read: flame war), and I don't want to contribute to that. Let's not get into the Bible, what it says and how we should interpret it for our own sake."

Well, if nobody else is interested, then we can just avoid that subject. For myself I enjoy debating and talking with people of differant beliefs than my own that I have a tendancy to turn every subject into a debate. My natural reaction to seeing a post with which I disagree is to chalange it, not realizing that not everyone shares my love of disagreing with people. :)

Anyway, I'd better quit babbling and allow you to do something a little more worthwhile than reading the ramblings of a teenager (attempting) to explain the strange and totally baffling thought patterns (?) of his twisted and (currently) rather bored mind.

[Ñólendil]

I should have deleted everything in my post save the conclusion, really.

[samwise of the shire]

Well we also have to remember that back in Tolkiens day even THINKING about being gay was shameful, and in the Middle Ages(in which time LOTR takes place.)it was considered to go hand in hand with witchcraft and the penalty for witchcraft was death, so I dont doubt Tolkien was against homosexual couples. And Play Girl I say this with all respect. I am a teen girl as well, but never once did I think Sam and Frodo were homosexual, so I think you're statement of I am a teen girl is totally and absolutley mute.
Sam
ps. I will be back It's just a time limit that stops me from posting more.

[Comic Book Guy]

I always thought you were male Samwise, judging from the name. :p

[Ñólendil]

I propose we drop the whole argument about homosexuality, and leave Play Girl (who has done nothing wrong) to post in peace!

The LR does not take place in the Middle Ages, it's supposed to be set in an imaginary time about 6,000 years ago.

[anduin]

I always thought that Sam was a guy too until I read what she posted about Frodo/Wood's eyes in the "i luv Frodo" thread in LOTR Movies. ;)

I was well into my 20's when I first read LOTR and I have to admit that Sam's behavior towards Frodo reminded me of a homosexual relationship. In fact the first instance that I came across (don't even remember now what it was) caused me to go, "hey, what the.." It makes no matter whether you are a teenaged girl or not...or a girl at all...there is nothing wrong with making a connection, even if it is a futile one. The human mind likes to run away sometimes....simple as that. Even bringing up the idea in a thread is not shameful when done in a harmless way which I feel she did, not to mention that it has given us all something different to talk about. :)

[easterlinge]

Samwise had 13 kids!!! Woooo...... Sam & Rosie, a very passionate couple. I had a Chemistry teacher who was one of 12 once.

If 13 kids is typical for Hobbits, how come Middle-Earth isn't jam-packed with them, so the 4th Age would be the "Dominion of Men and Halflings"?

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by easterlinge
Samwise had 13 kids!!! Woooo...... Sam & Rosie, a very passionate couple.

It has always been my thought that Rose and certainly Sam were especially blessed because of closeness to Galadriel´s home-brewed fertiliser.

Possibly it affected the Hobbit children of a whole cohort, especially the 1420´ babies. Note the new fashion in hair colour; golden as Galadriel´s!

[Play Girl]

Wow! 13 kids! How the hell did mild mannered Mr Sam control them all! I cannot believe that I have got all these posts. Oh and to all those who are still confused i am 17 in 5 days!!! I am sorry agian if I have caused offence and i promis to stick my head down a toilet bowl for atleast 10mins after I have finished writting this post. I just am romanticaly minded and I felt it was a bit of a shame that Frodo didn't have a little female hobbit girl friend so Sam became Samantha but after finding out how many kids he has i guess i must be wrong. I did post it before i had finished! That Sam and Rosie story must be one in its own. Imagine trying to contols all those Kids! I couldn't be able to even give them all names!!!
Play Girl

[Comic Book Guy]

Actually Frodo named them all for him in a way, good job as well seeing as Sam would have gave them wrong names. He wanted to name his first daughter Frodo.

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

13...what fun! I'm second of 8, and there's never a boring minute in our house...just imagine 13! What a blessing!

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

Oh, and PlayGirl, please don't feel unwelcomed because so many of us disagree with you on this subject! Oh, and for heavens sake, don't put your head in a toilet bowl!

So, welcome to the board! My name is Samuel, the Juggling Jesus Freak, or the Strange Looking Lurker ('cause I mostly just lurk and only post every once in a while). Nice to have you here!

[Bradistic]

The book says that Sam has 13 kids, but do we really know that they are all his? If Sam was willing to give his life for Frodo then maybe he was willing to give his wife too. And if you were Rosie why would you want to be with Sam the gardener when Frodo the ring bearer was right next door.

PS I would like to apologize in advance for anyone and everyone who is offended by my post.

PPS I think maturity is for boring people.

[Comic Book Guy]

Grow up.

[Sakata]

Originally posted by Bradistic


PPS I think maturity is for boring people.
Maturity is for the wise
-------------------------
If you guys think that homosexuals will go to heaven, does that meen muderers and rapists will as well? they are all sinners going against the word of god, and in my opionion if they dont repent and change their ways they will all go to hell.

[Play Girl]

I agree! With the bit about maturity being for boring people or atleast for when i want to be serious but I don't want to agree to the last post. I don't know if i realy believe in a god or heaven but I would like to think that bad people would go to purgotory(sp?) and I certainly don't agree with you about gays going to hell. I mean JRR probably thought of gays as somepeople think about body peircing and tatoos - doesn't like it and think its a bit pointless but doesn't hate or have an irrational fear of them. And isn't god supposed to love everyone. Whats wrong with falling in love with the same sex.
Play Girl

P.S. Sorry if i was being too mature for you Bradistic

[Sakata]

"...women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other..." "...God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things..."
Romans 1:26-27 & 2:2

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." -Leviticus 19:22

"Dont you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Dont fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers-none of these will have share in the Kingdom of God"-1 Corinthians 6:9

"Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear them from heaven and will forgive their sins..."
-2 Chronicles 7:14

It is so cut and dry, I fail to see how anyone who reads the bible could think homosexuality is okay.

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

"PS I would like to apologize in advance for anyone and everyone who is offended by my post. "

Yes, I found it quite offensive.

"PPS I think maturity is for boring people."

Well, it's good to be mature...some of the time anyway! I'm not always mature myself...you should see me on some other message baords I visit...(ever heard of the evils of grape jelly?)

"If you guys think that homosexuals will go to heaven, does that meen muderers and rapists will as well? they are all sinners going against the word of god, and in my opionion if they dont repent and change their ways they will all go to hell."

Of course. One thing most people don't seem to understand that with God, there are not degrees of sin. He is so totally perfect and holy that ANY little bit of sin cannot be tollerated (is that spelled right? umm...no, I don't think so. But i"m too lazy to spell check...)

"Whats wrong with falling in love with the same sex. "

It's "against nature", "unseemly" and "reprobate".

[Play Girl]

Well if we are going to start quoting the bibel then

"Do not judge each other lest you be judged yourself" some part of the bible (i forget)

and if we want to quote movies

"nobodys perfect" Some Like It Hot last scene

Play Girl

PS I am just quoting movies because i am imature

[samwise of the shire]

Do'nt judge a forum member by his/her posting name,speaking of judging.... "Do not judge each other lest you be judged yourself" some part of the bible (i forget) . I agree with Play Girl AND Sakata. How can that be? Play Girl is right in saying that it is wrong to judge another because we were on the same ground as they we should not judge because we are sinners, but I think that if God says something I think then that it's TRUE so I say it now. I disagree with homosexuality.
I think Rose does'nt give a hoot about the Ringbearer, her brave gardener is just about right(as he would be if I were her)
Sam
ps. Sorry if it seemed I jumped on your back purposefully. DId'nt mean to. Thanx for comin ;) Strange Lurcker lighten up.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sakata

Maturity is for the wise
-------------------------
If you guys think that homosexuals will go to heaven, does that meen muderers and rapists will as well? they are all sinners going against the word of god, and in my opionion if they dont repent and change their ways they will all go to hell. Well, I have been reading the Bible probably more years than you have been alive. I have also lived and learned from experience. It is not your place to judge homosexuals, rapists, murderers, or anyone else that may violate your Christian belief. However, you are entitled to your moral opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. If I told you that I thought that the Bible is the best fantasy book that I ever read next to Tolkien, are you going to tell me that I am going to Hell? If so, you should rethink your belief. It is my opinion that it is hypocritical.

[Bradistic]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
Grow up.

Thanks for the advice, but I'd rather not. I have to apologize for my last post. It was just an SPI (Spontaneous Act of Immaturity). I canÕt really guarantee that all my ensuing posts on this board will be boring (oops I mean serious), and I canÕt exactly pledge that I will try to make all my future posts mature in nature, but I will promise that from now on I will try, to try, to make all my subsequent posts more mature.

[easterlinge]

[making an effort to turn the topic away from hmsxlty]

Do you hold with those people who say we need to control population growth (eg the Club of Rome), or those who say "Be fruitful and multiply"?

I suppose 2 families of 11 kids each could have a football match..... a whole bunch of those families could have something like a soccer tournament. :)

[Play Girl]

Oh my god that is such a cool idea! What would the tournament be called. Mind you it would be a bit hard to tell the players apart if the name on the back of the shirt were all the same. Imagine if there were twins in the family aswell, or triplets!
Play Girl:p

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

"Well if we are going to start quoting the bibel then

"Do not judge each other lest you be judged yourself" some part of the bible (i forget)"

The sermon on the mount I beleive. Mat 6 or 7. I'm too lazy to look it up.

There is a problem with your reasoning that blows your argument totally out of the water. I wasn't judging, I was directly quoting Romans 1!! To use the Bible to try and tell me that it's wrong to quote the Bible is silly.

""nobodys perfect" Some Like It Hot last scene"

Oh, as long as we're quoting movies, here's one of my very fav. quotes: "A Jedi Knight? I'm out of it for a while and everyone get's delusions of graduer!" And don't correct my spelling either! :)

"PS I am just quoting movies because i am imature"

*hoist the immaturity flag* Long live immaturity! (Note: I am not making fun of you Play Girl)

"Strange Lurcker lighten up."

We was trying to be nice, yes we were. We was trying to be lighten up'ed. But they say mean things, yes they do. But Samuel bears it. He doesn't complain. Good Samuel. He will keep trying to show the dumb people at Entmoot how wrong they are. Good Samuel.
*dies laughing* Ok, ok, enough of that. LOL. I will try to lighten up a little more.

"If I told you that I thought that the Bible is the best fantasy book that I ever read next to Tolkien, are you going to tell me that I am going to Hell? If so, you should rethink your belief. It is my opinion that it is hypocritical."

To be totally honestly with you, yes, I would say that you are going to hell. How is that hypocritical?

"Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
Grow up.

Thanks for the advice, but I'd rather not. "

LOL! Very good come back! he he he..

"but I will promise that from now on I will try, to try, to make all my subsequent posts more mature."

Good heavens, no! I would much rather be offened every once in a while than condem you to being boring! *shudders*

"Do you hold with those people who say we need to control population growth (eg the Club of Rome), or those who say "Be fruitful and multiply"? "

Overpopulation is not aproblem at all.

[Comic Book Guy]

It was very good comeback indeed. Oh wait a second, that last sentance was mature and boring, oh dear I totally forgot that this was supposed to a thread designed for stupid and exciting posts which are really immature.

I hope no one replies with a hilarious post with quotes trying to make themselves look clever. :(

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Strange-Looking Lurker

"If I told you that I thought that the Bible is the best fantasy book that I ever read next to Tolkien, are you going to tell me that I am going to Hell? If so, you should rethink your belief. It is my opinion that it is hypocritical."

To be totally honestly with you, yes, I would say that you are going to hell. How is that hypocritical?
It is hypocritical to behave as a Christian, and in the same breath condem another for not sharing your belief. No person on this planet has the right or power to judge another by saying they are going to hell for a belief or practice that differs from that persons norm. Only God can say who will go to hell, and who won't. This is judging others, and is in direct contradiction with the Bibles teaching. Although the Bible states very clearly what is a sin and what isn't, going to hell as punishment for commiting these sins is limited to God alone. There is no one on this forum, or on this planet that can say another is going to hell, and then say you are a Cristian, or a God fearing person. Now that I have had my religious rant, I would like to ask a question. Isn't this a Tolkien forum?:rolleyes:

[afro-elf]

Now that I have had my religious rant, I would like to ask a question. Isn't this a Tolkien forum?

Sister Golden Hair

Thank you for the above. I was reading a closed general message forum earlier and now this. I was about to gird myself for a battle, BUT I will refrain and suggest maybe moving this to the general message forum.


At this point blood is oozing from my lips a I bite back a need to start a major offense and vanquish my foes.

The various armies stop as a dark skinned Elf approaches the field of battle. A nimbus of immense power surrounds the enigmatic being as he unsheathes a blade than glows with the light of the Two Trees. One thought crosses the minds of all who see the warrior. What side do does he support ?

[anduin]

I'm pulling the plug on this thread, it has strayed too far. If you could make a concise topic of this thread you are more than welcome to post it in GM. :)