The Will of The Ring

[bombcar]

What powers did the Ring possess that it could use itself?

We know it could shrink and expand, and fall off (or be put on) at inopportune times. Do you think that it had a will of its own, or that it was a tiny sliver of Sauron's will that was embedded in the gold along with the power he poured into it? (Scary though, that'd be, carring around the "Pocket Will of Sauron." :)

There is also the scene in the Return of the King, where Sam sees Frodo and Gollum (on Mount Doom) in "the other world," and he hears a voice come from within a ring of fire. Is that Frodo speaking through the Ring, or the Ring speaking through Frodo?

Do you think that the ring was just a "programmed" device, kind of like a pager that could be told to ring remotely, or do you think it had a will of its own at least somewhat separate from Sauron? If it did, it would have to be weak, I think.

[ringbearer]

Hmm, almost as if the Ring was sentient. I don't think so, but who knows. I think its shrinking and expanding was just a characteristic. Metals do shrink and expand...albeit, not as easily as the Great Ring...possibly something to do with the way it was crafted.

[bombcar]

It's pretty obvious, however, that the shrinking and expanding of the Ring is not soley due to external forces. Several times Tolkien hints at this: "perhaps it was a last trick of the ring before it took a new master," etc. But how far did this artificial intellegence go?

[Ñólendil]

It is a matter of debate, but I think the Ring certainly seems to have a will of its own, being filled with a great part of the powerful spirit of Sauron. Having a will of its own, but mastered ultimately by the Dark Lord is something seen in several creatures filled with the evil will of their master. Glaurung and the Dragons, Werewolves, Olog-hai, etc.. Although actually Werewolves may have had Maian or Elven spirits within them. I would be inclined to guess at 'Maian' since Tolkien seems to have decided Huan was a Maia.

The voice in Mount Doom was definitely the Ring, although this again is debated. It came out of the Wheel of Fire, which is twice or three times before the event expressly stated to be the Ring.

This is all not to say that Sauron can simply be = with the Ring. They don't 'think' the same things all the time, obviously. That's why Sauron's so impotent without it, it has a great part of himself within it, severed from it physically is to be without his old power.

[ringbearer]

Possibly something like this...the Ring is sort of "in and out" of the dimension of Middle Earth. The fire did not harm it because it "kind of" was not really there. It was cool to the touch because it would never "raise to room temp." This sounds bizzarre, it is hard to describe this type of conjecture!

[olorin]

Hmmmmm, I don't know that I would agree with the different dimension idea.....

I think that since 'a great part of sauron's strength' went into the ring, the idea of it having sentience , of some sort is not that far fetched. Could the ring actually carry on thought? Probably not, but it did, as was said, choose when it would leave an owner (usually in a really bad time:eek: ), and as it came closer to mt. doom, its 'will' became stronger. How about this: the ring could sense into how its owner was feeling, or was doing, something like an animal, and thus made its 'choices' ? But I really don't know.

BTW ,first post!

[ringbearer]

Welcome to Entmoot, olorin!

Olorin I was in my youth in the west that is forgotten...

[olorin]

Thanks

[ladyisme]

I do beleive that the ring did have a will of its own. Just look at how it tried to achieve it's goals by timeing it's actions, for example, it was no fluke that the ring sliped on Frodo's finger just when he had everyone's attention at the Prancing Pony.

"The road goes ever on and on down from the door where it began."

[Erewe]

The way I look at it, it's like Sauron cut off his arm and his arm started crawling around on it's own. Not a totally accurate comparison, but I think it's close enough.

--Erewë

[Agburanar]

Was anyone involved in the Sauron Thread where I put forward my theory about Sauron putting some of his spirit into the ring? I had thought that maybe Sauron's spirit in the Ring had grown weary and wanted to escape from middle earth by being destroyed. Perhaps, though, the Ring realised that Sauron was growing weak after so many defeats and wanted to 'Test' a potential replacement. Why choose a Halfling though? Maybe it had wanted to reach Gandalf, after all Frodo did offer him the Ring??!!:confused:

[Gandalf]

It is Sauron's will. Remeber that Sauron gave the Ring a great part of his power in order to create it. The Ring however doesn't only have the power, but also the goals of Sauron's power: Evil.

[ringbearer]

Found this answer in another fan forum, so do not credit finding the quote to me, but...

Tolkien says "sentient"(speaking of all the rings of power)

The Unfinished Tales; The History of Galadriel and Celeborn; Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn; 10th paragraph...





after all, with the power in them they can almost be treated as 'alive', certianly sentient. Maybe they can then grow as they become evil.