Romance in Middle earth

[easterlinge]

THere is a lot of romance in MIddle Earth among the most unlikely couples. A good example is Thingol who wedded Melian the Maia, and then there is Beren and Luthien (of course) which is also quite unlikely. Surely the most tragic unlikely couple is Turin and his sister/wife.

Who's your favourite couple in Middle-Earth, whether likely or unlikely?

What is the most touching scene that you know from any of the Tolkien Books? I found Hurin's meeting with Morwen at the Stone of the Hapless in the Silmarillion very moving. Two old people, long separated, just quietly keeping each other company until Morwen dies with the sunrise....

[Ñólendil]

One of the romance stories I think would make a great movie is that of Amroth and Nimrodel.

Or did you mean just in The Silmarillion?

Another tragic love story is that of Aegnor and Andreth, which I think you only read about in the Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth published in Morgoth's Ring.

[Elenna]

Ok this is nothing spectacular, but I loved the joining of Eowyn and Faramir.

A strong, brave girl who has a mind of her own and in my opinion Faramir was just the man for her. I dont think he would ever have willingly confined her spirit. Faramir struck me as a very free soul.

I never wanted Eowyn and Aragorn together. On my first reading, having not read the appendixes, I had no real idea that Aragorn was really in love with Arwen. Call me silly, but I missed those L'il clues the first time through...

However my heart sang with joy when Eowyn and Faramir found each other and became friends and finally had that first moment of hand holding.

[Shanamir Duntak]

The story if Turin moved me the most. I find it to be the most tragic character in middle heart.

And Faramir RuLeZ!!! :D:D

[Finmandos12]

The Narn I Hin Hurin almost seems Shakespearean to me.

[Elenna]

I loved Turin too -- it was just so sad.

I wanted happy love, thats why I would pick Eowyn and Faramir.

I've also got a thing for Ithilien***;)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Indeed the love story of Aegnor and Andreth in the Athrabeth was very moving and sad. I wonder if Andreth would have been more understanding to Finrod, if he had told her of his own broken heart.
Not an unlikely couple, but sort of a sad parting is that which occurs between Finrod and Amarie, especially when Galadriel asks him why he has no wife, and the forsight comes upon him and he sees his death.
I also think the last moments together of Hurin and Morwen were very sad.

[Ñólendil]

That's a good point about Amárië, I didn't even think of her when I read the Athrabeth. I wonder who or what specifically prevented her from coming into exil with Findaráto. I mean the idea is just that she was prevented because she was of the Vanyar. The Valar would not have prevented any Eldar from leaving Aman of free will, that's not their way. I doubt they would have set a ban upon the Fair from leaving. I guess her kindred prohibited her going, or else she herself chose not to go, not to fall under the Doom of the Noldor for any love.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
That's a good point about Amárië, I didn't even think of her when I read the Athrabeth. I wonder who or what specifically prevented her from coming into exil with Findaráto. I mean the idea is just that she was prevented because she was of the Vanyar. The Valar would not have prevented any Eldar from leaving Aman of free will, that's not their way. I doubt they would have set a ban upon the Fair from leaving. I guess her kindred prohibited her going, or else she herself chose not to go, not to fall under the Doom of the Noldor for any love. Well, we must remember that Finrod Felagund joined the revolt reluctantly. As for Amarie, you are correct. Nothing prevented her from joining her beloved in the Exile. Remember that Turgon's wife was a Vanyarin Elf, and she went, but was lost in the crossing of the ice. I think that at the time the Exile occured, that the Elves were young, though not persay Fingolfin and Feanor, but more so their children. This had to be a very tough choice for Finrod and Amarie at that time being so young. He was best friends with Turgon also, so we may be seeing some peer preasure there. She, Amarie is not mentioned much after the Exile, but life must have been very hard for Finrod all those years without her. He loved her that much.

[Fat middle]

¿that much? he could have come back to her the moment he would want. Elves could abandon life to go rest at Mandos' and the come back with their couple. I think Finrod loved her, but not enough to give up ME. That was his prime choice: to enjoy all Iluvatar's creation, from elves to men, from forest to animals... Love that can wait so long is an odd love.

This makes me recall Galadriel leaving Celeborn at ME. What sort of a wife is that? :p or what sort of a husband that who let her go to enjoy spring at Valinor with his friends Elrond and Gandalf only because he wanted a bit of free time to play poker with Elladan, Elrohir (sp?) and some other guy of the party? :rolleyes:

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Fat middle
¿that much? he could have come back to her the moment he would want. Elves could abandon life to go rest at Mandos' and the come back with their couple. I think Finrod loved her, but not enough to give up ME. That was his prime choice: to enjoy all Iluvatar's creation, from elves to men, from forest to animals... Love that can wait so long is an odd love.

This makes me recall Galadriel leaving Celeborn at ME. What sort of a wife is that? :p or what sort of a husband that who let her go to enjoy spring at Valinor with his friends Elrond and Gandalf only because he wanted a bit of free time to play poker with Elladan, Elrohir (sp?) and some other guy of the party? :rolleyes: Not true. He could not come back to her whenever he wanted. There was a ban on the Exiles by the Valar. Elves could not ambandon life whenever they wished, and then pickup where ever they wished, at least not the Noldor. The curse of Mandos made that clear. As I said, Finrod went reluctantly, but you are right in that love that waits that long is odd. After Finrod was released from the Halls of Mandos, he resumed his love affair with Amarie.

[easterlinge]

Another thing is, the Three Rings losing their powers may have been rather traumatic for their wielders/bearers. I think Galadriel and Elrond were weakened by it , and needed to get to Valinor before they faded.

[Fat middle]

very true, Sister GH, i forgot the banishment of the Noldor.

easterlinge: then all the fault was of Celeborn. ;)

[Lady-Ithilien]

Elenna: I just couldn´t agree more with you!!

Eowyn and Faramir are so special and their love story is so simple... as you can see I have a thing for Ithilien as well...:p

The love stories in the Sil are also wonderful, but they have a much greater air around them. The same goes for Aragorn and Arwen... they are royal lords and ladies and their stories sound too high for the simple things.

The only one from the Sil that doesn´t give me that impression is Beren and Luthien´s one... they are more human (even though Luthien wasn´t human at all ;)) and their love story seem more down to earth for me... even considering all the grand and almost impossible things they did for each other.

But they are always magnificent in their own way, specially the tragic ones...

[Ñólendil]

Ah yes, I suppose I forgot about Elenwë

The Ban did not prohibit the fëar of the Noldor from returning after 'death', which I think is what Fat Middle meant. But in that case, they could only die of their own free will in a state of great grief and you can't very well choose to fall into a black pit of despair. You either have the will to live or you don't.

easterlinge, once in Eressea (or Valinor if they went there afterwards), they wouldn't have faded. That can only happen in Middle-earth, as I understand it.

Then again, according to one late writing, the Valar themselves fade: The Valar 'fade' and become more impotent precisely in proportion as the shape and constitution of things becomes more defined and settled. The longer the Past, the more nearly defined the Future, and the less room for important change (untrammeled action, on a physical plane, that is not destructive in purpose). The Past, once 'achieved' has become part of the 'Music in being'. Only Eru may or can alter the 'Music'.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Ah yes, I suppose I forgot about Elenwë

The Ban did not prohibit the fëar of the Noldor from returning after 'death', which I think is what Fat Middle meant. But in that case, they could only die of their own free will in a state of great grief and you can't very well choose to fall into a black pit of despair. You either have the will to live or you don't. This is true, and this is exactly what happened. Finrod did not grieve himself to death over Amarie. I think you are right that Elves can not will themselves to fall into a pit of despair, and he did not know that the ban would never be lifted or not, so he may have never given up hope for a reunion with Amarie. However, once the forsight came upon him, and he knew he was going to die, he knew that he would return to Valinor in time. He did not know how long he would be held in the Halls of Awaiting though. I think too, that in most cases once Elves fall in love that is it. They and that person are soul mates forever. There would be no chosing another. I can only remember Finwe being the exception to this when his first wife died.

[Ñólendil]

I had forgotten about the foresight of Finrod in that conversation with his sister too, until today when I read the chapter again.

I think Finwë was indeed the single exception. Even that caused a high debate among the Authorities. I think this element you speak of stands as a good illustration of the less than free will and fate of the Quendi as opposed to the Hildor. Not that this is a bad thing in any way, it's just that Elves don't (or didn't) have as much free Will as we do. Once sworn, oath or pledge, by words, by heart or spirit, it holds you, for good or ill. It is not very easy to abandon such things and seemingly seldom attempted or (even less often) achieved.

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

Originally posted by Fat middle
This makes me recall Galadriel leaving Celeborn at ME. What sort of a wife is that? :p or what sort of a husband that who let her go to enjoy spring at Valinor with his friends Elrond and Gandalf only because he wanted a bit of free time to play poker with Elladan, Elrohir (sp?) and some other guy of the party? :rolleyes:

It seems your forgetting that the Elves don't think of time in the same way we do. When Galadriel went ahead, it was kinda like you and your wife taking differant cars to work. Sure, your seperated for a short time, but it's not that long. The Elves looked at years in the same way.

[olorin]

I think Finwë was indeed the single exception. Even that caused a high debate among the Authorities. I think this element you speak of stands as a good illustration of the less than free will and fate of the Quendi as opposed to the Hildor. Not that this is a bad thing in any way, it's just that Elves don't (or didn't) have as much free Will as we do. Once sworn, oath or pledge, by words, by heart or spirit, it holds you, for good or ill. It is not very easy to abandon such things and seemingly seldom attempted or (even less often) achieved.

I don't think it was the oaths themselves that held the elves as much as it was to who they swore them to. As the Sil says when the noldor took their oath, they didn't swear to anything they could reach or talk to, but swore by Eru, who was out of the circles of the world. Thus they were bound to that particular one until death. But I think the only oath they swore that really caused a lot trouble and grief was that feanorian oath, which of course affected the course of history.

[Ñólendil]

Maybe, but in some fashion one must account for this passage in Of the Beginning of Days: For it is said that after the departure of the Valar there was silence, and for an age Ilúvatar sat alone in thought. Then he spoke and said: 'Behold I love the Earth, which shall be a mansion for the Quendi and the Atani! But the Quendi shall be the fairest of all earthly creatures, and they shall have and shall conceive and bring forth more beauty than all my Children; and they shall have the greater bliss in this world. But to the Atani I will give a new gift.' Therefore he willed that the hearts of Men should seek beyond the world and find no rest therein; but they shoul have a virtue to shape their life, amid the powers and chances of the world, beyond the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else; and of their operation everything should be, in form and deed, completed, and the world fulfilled unto the last and smallest.

Clearly in some way Elves do not have as much Free Will as the Followers, whether this can be seen in oaths or not.

[Sister Golden Hair]

This also reminds me of the conversation between Finrod and Andreth in the Athrabeth. Andreth says:"Your Valar do not trouble us with care or instruction. They sent no summons to us." Finrod replies: "Has it never entered your thought Andreth, that out there in ages long past ye may have put yourselves out of their care, and beyond the reach of their help? Or even that ye, the Children of Men were not a matter that they could govern? For ye were too great. Yes, I mean this and do not only flatter your pride, too great. Soul masters of yourselves within Arda, under the hand of the One."

[ArwenEvenstar]

no offense to any one who likes celeborn, but he's a bit of a jerk

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar
no offense to any one who likes celeborn, but he's a bit of a jerk Well, he's related to Thingol.:D

[ArwenEvenstar]

really, i didn't know that. (Seriously)

[Ñólendil]

He was Thingol's grand nephew. I originally posted a little geneology here, but it doesn't come out well once it's posted.

But Thingol's brother was Elmo. Elmo was the father of Galadhon, the father of Galathil and Celeborn (Galathil was Nimloth's father, Nimloth being the wife of Dior {son of Beren and Lúthien}).