Did Elladan and Elrohir leave Middle-earth or stay?

[Alcuin]

I’ve often wondered whether Elladan and Elrohir left Middle-earth or remained and like their sister Arwen chose mortality. What do you think?

I’ll wait a while to vote so that others can be first.

[Earniel]

I vote for 'other', because I don't see why they'd have to choose.

I know the whole point of the Pereldar is that they have to choose, but in essense this will only come up in specific and rather rare circumstances. Until those circumstances come about, they can go about their immortal business well, pretty much forever and never have a worry.

The choice only comes up if and when they intend to marry, and then their choice is likely determined by the race of their lover; or they want to sail West at some point, in which case they must choose to be Eldar.

And if they die before picking a race, they probably can still get to make that choice in the Halls of the Dead, in front of a very grumpy Mandos, I'm thinking.

So not choosing pretty much costs nothing.

Maybe I'm lazy, but if I don't have to make a difficult choice, I'd avoid deciding it for as long as feasible.

Or maybe I just like the idea of the brothers postponing making a decision indefinitely while making Cirdan very annoyed at not being able to leave until they do. I bet they'd think that an awesome prank... :p

[Valandil]

I've been pondering this, and haven't voted yet. Some years back, I would have said I was pretty certain they left Middle Earth. Now I don't know.

Part if it comes down to their grandpa, Celeborn. Because they stayed at Rivendell with him. Why didn't he leave Middle Earth with Galadriel. Was it because he had always lived there... had never lived in Aman? And didn't wish to leave Middle Earth and go there? Or... did he just want to spend a little more time in Middle Earth before he left it.

If he intended to leave - I think the twins would have been staying until he left, and would then go with him (this was my earlier thinking).

However - what if he intended to stay? Then it's possible either that the twins remained to spend some last few years with him (and see their sister from time-to-time) before departing. OR... they could have just decided to stay in Middle Earth forever with him, and with Arwen.

I still don't know. We don't see a whole lot of Elladan and Elrohir, so it's hard to gage what was on their minds. In fact - I don't know if we ever see them apart... do we?

[Olmer]

Why the twins have to leave for Valinor? Is the life with peace and quietness of the cemetery is better than the life on the continent, where is a wide field for multitudes of actions, if you don't feel like a walking corpse? In mine POV there were no valid reasons for them to leave M.E, and also there were no means to do so, because the last (hallowed) ship made by Cirdan departed a long time ago. Considering that even crafty Noldor were unsuccessful in navigation of their ships to the Blessed Land, what chances have had persons unskilled in building the seaworthy ships, not to mention to navigate through the dangerous Great Sea and traps of Enchanted Islands in the Shadow Sea, I would say that their journey( if they took it) might have had a very sad end.
As for Celeborn, he stayed. Tolkien did not procrastinate much on this subject, but he was giving a definite indication of it. At Celeborn’s parting words to Aragorn Tolkien clearly stated that the Elven Lord will never see his beloved Galadriel by making Celeborn to express a wish that Aragorn's fate may be better than his own and the love of his live will stay with him till the end. “May your doom be other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end".(RotK. “Many Partings”) The end - is the end of life, which means that Celeborn won't see Galadriel for the rest of his life, so he is to stay where the real Home is, eventually “fading” into the Lingerer

[Valandil]

Olmer - good job coming up with that quote Celeborn says to Aragorn. I had forgotten that one.

Kind of tells me that there's no expectation that Celeborn would leave Middle Earth and go to Aman.

Which means - to me - it doesn't make sense that Elladan or Elrohir would go there either. Their sister stayed. I wonder if they would hope to do, achieve or become anything... fading as their Elven abilities might be. Maybe they would just fade.

Question though... just because they stay, does that mean that they naturally - and immediately (more or less) have chosen mortality? Or could they just linger, half-elven as they are, without making a choice? Until the choice becomes made for them? Their situation is different from Arwen's - a half-elven who chose to marry a mortal. They're just hanging around a little longer...

Anyway... I now know how I am going to vote. :)

[Valandil]

I voted for the "Something else" - because I'm not convinced yet that they would automatically become mortal by staying. At least not for a good long while. Unless some other choice of their's brought it on.

[Olmer]

For me it's clear that sons of Elrond are staying in the Middle Earth, because Tolkien in his notes said " These children were three parts Elven-race, but the doom spoken at their birth was that they should live even as Elves so long as their father remained in Middle-earth; but if he departed they should have then the choice either to pass over the Sea with him, or to become mortal, if they remained behind." ("The People of Middle Earth". p324) Later he added that they might lose immortality, if they will decide to marry a mortal. But this does not make a big difference because they did not depart for Valinor with their father, therefore they automatically lost immortality, since the life in Middle Earth makes even immortals to age faster. This is one of the reasons why the Valar invited the Elves to Aman.

[Valandil]

Interesting quote! I have that book, but if I read that part, it was long ago.

I guess this could depend on how strictly one interprets "with him"... does it mean that they basically needed to sail on the same ship (a very strict interpretation) - or to pass over to the same place, as he did, even if not at the same time (a less strick interpretation)? I think I would hold that there was still a possibility for them to go, even after Elrond left, but they probably couldn't take a couple hundred years to do it.

Arwen lived something on the order of 120 years after marrying Aragorn (120 years and a couple months) and from the time Elrond passed over (I'd have to check to confirm... maybe 118 years?). But I think she also decided to just lay herself down and die after Aragorn passed, as some of the ancient Numenorean Kings did. But I wonder if she couldn't have lived too much longer, even if she tried to extend her days.

[Olmer]

I think that emphasis should be put on the words "they should live even as Elves so long as their father remained in Middle-earth" The choice is not indefinite. They stay Elves while Elrond stays with them. They have to make a decision at the time of his departure - to go with him and become 100% Elves, or to stay behind and accept the "gift of God for the Mankind".
The same with their sister Arwen, she lost her immortality with her father departure. Considering her elven heritage, she could live a quite long life, in comparison with ordinary humans lives, but not indefinite, just like her late husband, whose ancestors lived 3 times longer than he was. I guess she became weary of the purposeless life, after all she was living for 2600 years sitting in the woods and needlepointing. After a relatively brief by her standards exiting period of being a wife of the King and a hostess of the King's Castle, she returned back to the square one: woods and needlepoint. You could hang yourself from such a perspective on the rest of your life.

[Alcuin]

I’ve waited three months. Along the way, after others had voted, I voted, too.

I am with Olmer on this subject. The choice [of Elrond’s children wa]s not indefinite. They stay Elves while Elrond stays with them. They have to make a decision at the time of his departure – to go with him and become … Elves, or to stay behind and accept the “gift of God for … Mankind”. The same with their sister Arwen, she lost her immortality with her father[’s] departure.I think Celeborn’s departure from Lórien and settlement in Rivendell was to be with his grandsons until they died; after that, he also departed Middle-earth to rejoin Galadriel in the Uttermost West. Although Tolkien says in Letter 153 thatThe end of [Elrond’s] sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while
I think that the implication from other statements makes it clear that they chose to remain with the Dúnedain of Arnor whom they came to love.