Glorfindel reincarnated

[Nerwende]

Hi, I have a question about Glorfindel.

When Glorfindel was reincarnated it is said that he become almost the equal of the maia.

Glorfindel’s spirit passed to the Halls of Mandos, where he waited with the spirits of the other Noldor who had died during their war against Morgoth. But because of Glorfindel’s noble actions in life, his reluctance at the Exile, and his furthering of the purposes of the Valar by saving Tuor and Idril, he was re-embodied after only a short time. He had redeemed himself, and was purged of any guilt. Not only did his sacrifice get him an early pardon, it earned him great powers, so that he was almost an equal to the maiar.

Then it is said that Galadriel was

the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-Earth

and

"Galadriel, the greatest of the Eldar surviving in Middle-earth, was potent mainly in wisdom and goodness, as a director or counsellor in the struggle, unconquerable in resistance (especially in mind and spirit) but incapable of punitive action."
"Unfinished Tales "The Istari"

Is Glorfindel included in the "elves that remained" or is he a special case, cause his power increased.
I think Galadriel has very mich power herself and Nenya.

I know that´s the old boring power debate, but today I´m somehow interested in that and would like to know what you think about that.

And for the fairest part, does that mean that Galadriel is more fair than Arwen or is she not included cause she in half elven? I think she belongs to the elves until she decides to become mortal.

[Earniel]

Well, I don't think Glorfindel can really be considered to be one of the remaining or surviving Eldar, since he did neither. He came back to Middle-earth after having departed from it/death.

Welcome to the Entmoot. :)

[Nerwende]

Thank you,:)

I see it the same way, but is he mightier? Almost equal to a maiar is hard to best, but he didn´t left that powerful impression on me.

[Rían]

He was just modest, unlike Fëanor ;)

Welcome!

I think Tolkien used descriptions like "mightiest" and "fairest" in a poetic way sometimes - IIRC, he uses them of more than one person sometimes.

[Earniel]

Hard to say if Glorfindel was mightier. Like RÃ*an pointed out, Tolkien called several Elves the fairest, most powerful or strongest Elf throughout his writing.

But it's very likely there were none, or very few Elves, left in the Third Aera that could match Glorfindel, maybe just because the First Aera Elves, having lived under the Trees, appeared to possess more strength physically and spiritually - if that term can be used- than those born in the Years of the Sun, away from Aman.

That said, there just aren't many opportunities for the reborn Glorfindel to prove that mighty, almost Maia-like strength within Tolkien's writing. There are at best only vague mentions of any battle Glorfindel could have been in since his return. There is some that can be gleaned from his encounter with the Nazgûl, but there are very few related Elf-Nazgûl encounters to compare with.

[Galin]

That quote appears to be someone's summation. I'm not quibbling with the wording but just to post Tolkien's actual phrasing...

This supposition would indeed explain the air of special power and sanctity that surrounds Glorfindel (...)

(...) We can thus understand why he seems so powerful a figure and almost 'angelic'. For he had returned to the primitive innocence of the First-born, and had then lived among the Elves who had never rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar for ages, to the end of the first millennium of the Third Age: before he returned to Middle-earth.

JRRT, Last Writings, The Peoples of Middle-Earth, Glorfindel I

That is Glorfindel I however, as Tolkien would revise that Glorfindel remained in Aman until the Third Age. And in Glorfindel II the wording is a bit different...

He then became again a living incarnate person, but was permitted to dwell in the Blessed Realm; for he had regained the primitive innocence and grace of the Eldar. For long years he remained in Valinor, in reuinion with the Eldar who had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar. To these he had now become almost an equal, for though he was an incarnate (to whom a bodily form not made or chosen by himself was necessary) his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice.

JRRT, Last Writings, Glorfindel II

Here Glorfindel returns in the Second Age rather, and 'more probably' as late as c. 1600 Second Age, the Year of Dread.

[Willow Oran]

It also doesn't help that Tolkien never defines how strong the Maiar actually are... so far as physical power goes, Glorfindel probably has a bit of an advantage over comparable elves remaining in Middle Earth simply because his body is literally younger, less beat up, and unexposed to hardship during its formation.

One can also guess that he might have picked up more overall skill if he spent much time around the Maiar in Valinor, but he's implied to be quite an excellent warrior even before his death, so improvement there may not factor as a result of being re-embodied.

The scenes wherein we actually see Glorfindel doing things, emphasize his spiritual prowess and Tolkien reasoned that

His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gil-Galad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them.

My reading of Glorfindel as compared to the Ringbearers and company has always been that of those elves he has the most raw spiritual power. Due to the return to innocence that's part of being re-embodied his spirit isn't weighed down the way it would have been if he had survived and remained in Middle Earth the way Galadriel, and the self-sacrificial manner of his death seems to have increased it's power. His purpose then isn't so much to be a champion in battle - though that's probably a necessary part of it - but to strengthen Elrond, Gil-Galad, and any others he might be around by bolstering their more battered spirits using his own.

If it helps, I like to think of him in terms of power as either a practice run for Gandalf's change from grey to white, or the living version of Frodo's star-glass. He's just extra shiny.

That said, I think Galadriel, Elrond, and probably Cirdan have him outclassed for finesse in using that spiritual power by virtue of experience and loss of innocence.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Many of the most powerful Amanyar rivaled Maiar in various forms of 'power'. Certainly several show it on the battlefileds during the War of the Great Jewels, matching or defeating Maiar, such the Balrogs, who were specialized for combat. Recall also that the Maiar tend to diminish with time, using up a limited or partially limited store of creative power as they shape and manage Arda; also as JRRT suggested somewhere in a note, they also lose freedom of action over time, as the more of prophecy of the Music of the Ainur is materialized into being and they become more bound by fate.

[Nerwende]

I´m still not convinced that Glorfindel, even if he is called almost the equal of the Maiar and greatly enhanced in his spiritual power is inherently more powerful than Galadriel. Is is said that no one could beat her in a strugle of mind and spirit so I would say that she has the greatest spiritual power.

I think Tolkien used descriptions like "mightiest" and "fairest" in a poetic way sometimes - IIRC, he uses them of more than one person sometimes.

Yes, but with Galadriel he does it several times, so I don´t think when he says that about her, that he only means it in a poetic way.

If it helps, I like to think of him in terms of power as either a practice run for Gandalf's change from grey to white, or the living version of Frodo's star-glass. He's just extra shiny.

But is that a result of his reincarnation? I think that is something all light elfs have in common, for they are mighty among both the seen and unseen, I think if Galadriel would face the Nazgul, she would have the same or even greater effect, the WK was even afraid of her and would not dare to enter Lorien and to face the white ring.

[Galin]

By the way, when Tolkien was writing the drafts for The Lord of the Rings, he noted to himself that Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin...

... now we know Tolkien never had the Elf do that for the tale that was ultimately published, but what's interesting to me is... if this note suggests that, at least at this brief point in time (and perhaps only for the very day he jotted down the reference), Tolkien considered Glorfindel of Rivendell to be the Elf of Gondolin...

... at this time the conception was that Elves were reincarnated by being reborn, physically, to new parents, thus having new bodies.

So what "would" have been that ancestry? And Glorfindel of Rivendell is still golden-haired, despite being reborn to new parents... hmm.

Of course in a sense it's a moot question or wondering, given that Tolkien changed his mind about this type of reincarnation...

... but anyway :)