C.S. Lewis' "Space Trilogy".

[Gwaihir]

Have any of you read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy? I'm just starting to consider reading it (after glancing through the first few pages of "Out of the Silent Planet") and would like to know other people's thoughts on the series.

David

[Film Hobbit]

Is it gearted towards children like so many of his other books or is it more adult oriented?

[Gwaihir]

It's meant as a sort of "Fantasy for adults", but that doesn't mean kids won't enjoy them. They're much deeper (allegorically I mean) than the Narnia books. I haven't gotten very deep into yet, so I probably shouldn't speak, though.

[Finduilas]

"Out of the Silent Planet" and "Perelandra" are good, but I didn't care for "That Hideous Strength" at all. (Only reason I own a copy is because HoME 9, Sauron Defeated, has a lot of references to it.)
There is a lot of influence from the Silmarillion in this trilogy though.

[Film Hobbit]

Hmm, I might check it out then. I loved C.S. Lewis in Elementary and early Junior High School... but now of course his books are to simple at my age... but I would love to read some of his adult stuff.

[Gwaihir]

TOO SIMPLE? ;)

Obviously you've never read any of his Christian apologetics, just his fantasy. I agree that the Narnia books are simple, but they're children's books, and therefore should be. Try reading "Mere Christianity" or "The Problem of Pain" for a dose of hard core theology! I think you'll change your opinion after that. :)

[Film Hobbit]

No, I don't go in for religiously themed reading. It usually just irritates me. But I'll have to check out the "Space Trilogy" I did really used to like Lewis's chronicles of Narnia, he has a relaxing style of writing.

[Finduilas]

I regularly chuckle over the Screwtape Letters.

[Gwaihir]

If you don't like theological works that's your decision; my only point was that C.S. Lewis' works aren't all cute little fantasies. There is some deep stuff in there too. The Narnia books and even the Space Trilogy are allegorical works, but I suppose people who don't care for Christianity can look past the allegory if they try hard enough. ;)

David

[Film Hobbit]

Its not that I don't like chritianity, its just that I don't like when sci-fi fantasy writers, who are supposed to be writing books for pure entertainment try to slip in their own ideas about religion and convince the reader of their view point.

So many authors try and do it to, L.Ron Hubbard being the biggest example of course, but there are others like Robert A. Heinlien... who is one of my favorite authors but it makes me angry whenever I get into one of his books and he tries to distract the reader with his personal views on religion. There are lots of others.

TO me this would equate with a sci-fi writer slipping in campaign slogans for whoever he thinks people should vote for in the next election into his books. They should be embarrased.

[Lost in Coruscant]

Oh for cryin' out loud...

The Space trilogy is an adult fantasy series, yes, children can read them but it's difficult!

If you don't like the 'religion' references, don't read it. Most Christians decide that God gave them a gift and they use it for His glory, not their own.

[clerk]

Yes, and of course, Dante's Comedia wouldn't be so ****py if he didn't allow all of that religious contexture to get in the way. ;)

[Gwaihir]

The Space Trilogy isn't too deep, at least compared with other Lewis books, excluding the Narnia books. I can understand it fine, and I'm fairly young. You have to remember these books were written back during World War II, when literature was much more complex and pulp fiction was almost nonexistent. "The Hobbit" was commonly read by seven year old children when it was first published.....I think it'd be hard to get a seven year old now to read it. :)

David

[Film Hobbit]

I think you guys misinterpet my rant. Its not books with religious content that bother me, its books that preport themselves as sci-fi but spend time promoting the authors own personal religious philosiphies instead.
I don't mind if the book includes things about religion, for instance there is a culture in the book with a deep and different religious philosiphy or something, its when it so blatantly is just a platform for the author's own relgious theories. C.S.Lewis' books do this occasionally, however not really as bad as some others do.

[cee2lee2]

C.S. Lewis's fantasies are "religious" in the sense that his faith infuses and informs all of his writings, even the works that are not apologetics. His fantasies are not merely a platform for getting across a religious point, but I don't think he could write otherwise than from his Christian perspective.

I read the space trilogy years ago for a college class on Christian Lit. I remember staying up all night to read That Hideous Strength, because I found it very disturbing and needed to know the ending.

First came to the Narnia books as an adult,too, and found there was quite enough in them to hold my attention.

[Fat middle]

currently reading Out of the Silent Planet and enjoying it a lot. Of course there is a christian background if i'm understanding it right, but there are also a bunch of very good thoughts enjoyable for everybody. it seems as a modern Utopia

[Elbreth of Carhouth]

I love the Space Trilogy, because I think it shows more sides to Christianity than alot of other Christiain author's books. Another good one is Pilgrim's Regress.

As to Christian authors pushing their own religious beliefs into thier books, I can't agree. To most Christians, thier faith is the most important thing in the world to them. It holds joy, hope, peace, and healing. It is of so much importance to them, that it is an inseperable part of them. I say that from experience, for that is how I write my books.

[Gilthalion]

I have it on the shelf.

But, I've only read it once.

I have some other things he has written. His fiction has far more darkness than Tolkien's! It is densely written, and perhaps it was just me at the time, but I didn't really care a lot for it.

His work is Christian Allegory. It is meant to "slip in" the author's religious views! :)

Screwtape Letters is great and his apologetics are brilliant!

[Elbreth of Carhouth]

I've got Screwtape Letters too, quite good. Anyone read Pilgrim's Regress? I liked that one too, another CS Lewis.

[Carafin]

I've read the first 2 in the cosmic trilogy and the screwtape letters, plus some of his short stories. I have to agree his writing does have quite a bit of darkness and can be heavy, but nontheless I enjoy it. My opinion is that you should read the trilogy at some point, but don't force it if it seems too heavy:)

[Laredith]

Originally posted by Lost in Coruscant
Oh for cryin' out loud...

The Space trilogy is an adult fantasy series, yes, children can read them but it's difficult!

If you don't like the 'religion' references, don't read it. Most Christians decide that God gave them a gift and they use it for His glory, not their own.

Heh-heh...no, I wouldn't give it to a child. Remember the part with Ransom and...oh, darn it, I forgot his name. You know, the hross. How they are talking about mating...uh-huh, right. Somehow, I don't believe seven year olds are mature enough to read that (btw, amen about the last comment. I myself am a Christian fiction author).

[webwizard333]

I just finished Out of the Silent Planet and thought it was brilliant. Christian beliefs and theology aside, I thought his descriptions of the various alien cultures to be engrossing and their physical aspects as well, all were very detailed. Interesting ideas too, that our planet is a prison for the Bent One. I look forward to reading the next two in the trilogy.

[sun-star]

It's a while since I read it, but I liked Out of the Silent Planet, though I can't say I understand all of it. I can't find Perelandra anywhere to read that, and That Hideous Strength was just... weird. It frightened me, too (I'm easily scared).

[cee2lee2]

Sunstar, that's why I had to stay up all night to finish it. It was scary and I just couldn't stop in the middle. I'm easily scared too. :) Had to know how it ended.

[Entlover]

It is scary -- I'll never forget that police woman.

Has anybody read Lewis' "Til We Have Faces"?

I can't agree that his fiction is darker than Tolkien's. They are both pessimists in the short run and optimists in the long run. But the Silmarillion's a lot darker than anything Lewis wrote. All of Lewis' stories end happily.

[webwizard333]

I recently read Perelandra and greatly enjoyed it as well. I especially liked his creation of the floating islands, it's one of the more original concepts I've read lately. The ending monlogoue with the Eldil and the King and Queen was a great read. I look forward to the third book but it seems like a lot of people find this one to be frightening.

[Entlover]

Originally posted by webwizard333
I I look forward to the third book but it seems like a lot of people find this one to be frightening.

It isn't really frightening, although it's definitely not for children. (There's a fair amount of stuff like brainwashing, sex (i.e. elephants mating, as I recall), murder, dismembered body parts, etc) One of the characters is a disembodied head with his brains bubbling out.
It's definitely memorable. But it was slightly disappointing in that it's got too many different elements in it: space travel, the supernatural(devil worship, angels), medieval wizardry (Merlin in the twentieth century) and arthurian legends, a police state, university life, and possibly others I can't recall. It might have been better if he'd concentrated on fewer subjects.
But it's worth reading.

[webwizard333]

Well, I finished it today after much putting off (I was annoyed with the lack of Dr. Ransom in the beginning), but I'm glad I read it. I agree with it being disturbing, though I found Frost to be far scarier than the police-woman Hardcastle. I do like much of his allegorical meaning in their about duty and the need and joy of obedience; but not nessecarily the equality part. Though it lacked any more travel between the planets I thought it was a fitting conclusion to the trilogy.

[Carafin]

I just finished thet Hideous Strength a few days ago and it really got me thinking about all the unique symbols he used (Hardcastle scared me too, but so did Frost and Feverstone and Wither and...)and the whole idea of Logres and England got me into Camelot can anyone suggest some good books on Camelot?
thanx

[Lief Erikson]

The Merlin series by Mary Stewart is excellent. It takes place from the perspective of Merlin, but it spans the Arthurian legend as well. I loved it, so I strongly recommend it.

I've read the space trilogy, and I think I have a few problems with C.S. Lewis writing style. It's simply not for me. But I did like the series pretty well, Perelandra especially.

[Telperion]

I've only read "out of the silent plante" but i found it pretty wierd. i don't think i'll finish the series.

[b.banner]

i just finished the first one yesterday really good book

[littleadanel]

I've only read Out of the Silent Planet. I actually bought it for a really low price, when the library was selling out old books, and Lewis' name caught my eye. I enjoyed it very much. I wish I could have the other two to read...

[Entlover]

I've only read Out of the Silent Planet. I wish I could have the other two to read...

You should be able to get them at your library. They're all over the place; used bookstores have them too. Should not be missed, they are classics.

[littleadanel]

I know you couldn't have seen it because I took it out of my profile a while ago... so psst, now I tell... I'm Hungarian. ;)

I looked it up, and it seems I have a slight chance of finding Perelandra in used bookstores, because it was published in '95. It seems the third part hasn't been translated. And I have an even slighter chance of finding any of them in original English... But I'll keep looking. :)

[ecthelion]

Is anyone here interested in the cosmic trilogy? Though less famous than narnia, it is in my opinion a better work. Maybe someone knows about another discussion forum about it?

[inked]

see: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=1583 :D

[ecthelion]

Thank you, it seems I never saw that I am only looking on the last month threads...
And more to the point, the whole thread is about if its worth reading. I know it is!
I would wish to discuss some of the ideas, and compare it to tolkien. not in the details of the mythology, but in the larger aspects.

[Butterbeer]

then your wish is granted ...


here you go ...start it off to your heart's desire Ecthelion!

best, BB :)

[ecthelion]

Why did the Oyearsu (of perelandra or Malachandra) not stop Weston's ship before it reached Venus-perelandra, as the Oyarsa of Mars-Malachandra promised Ransom to do?
That was a humble start to get the discussion going :)

[hectorberlioz]

Alas! I have not read them yet...:( But I will!

[GreyMouser]

Why did the Oyearsu (of perelandra or Malachandra) not stop Weston's ship before it reached Venus-perelandra, as the Oyarsa of Mars-Malachandra promised Ransom to do?
That was a humble start to get the discussion going :)

Hmmm... don`t remember Malacandra saying that, but I`d guess the answer would have to be about Free Will- the Queen must be presented with a choice before she can freely choose to obey Maledil.

[ecthelion]

It's in the first book, out of the silent planet, when ransom and malachandra speak, (I think) that he warns weston not to come again or else he will destroy his ship on the way.
But free will doesn't cover it, since ransom comes and takes care of the problem.
but maybe there was more than one purpose, maybe the queen had to learn about evil from firsthand experience. maybe also ransom had to be made stronger for the next phases.
Thoughts anyone?

[GreyMouser]

It's in the first book, out of the silent planet, when ransom and malachandra speak, (I think) that he warns weston not to come again or else he will destroy his ship on the way.
But free will doesn't cover it, since ransom comes and takes care of the problem.
but maybe there was more than one purpose, maybe the queen had to learn about evil from firsthand experience. maybe also ransom had to be made stronger for the next phases.
Thoughts anyone?

Hmmm... but that`s warning against going to Malacandra, which never had the Free-will tussle- In the Cosmc Trilogy, problems of free will are restricted to Humans- and, sadly, after Thulcandra and Perelandra, no more non-Human intelligences- why, I don`t know, except Lewis had some peculiar ideas relating to Humans and animals.

[Rían]

What do you mean, GM?

[ecthelion]

Lewis had some peculiar ideas relating to Humans and animals.

Yes, like this approximate quote: When the lady took the inferiority of beasts seriously, she elevated them into a higher level".

Is this what you mean by "peculiar ideas"?

[GreyMouser]

My copy of the Cosmic Trilogy has been lost along the way, but I seem to recall Ransom being told at the end of Perelandra that since the Incarnation, only humans would be created as ....what's Lewis's word for ensouled beings?

Though this would seem to be contradicted by Ransom's glimpse of the great cart being pulled by the giant insects in the depths of the cavern on Perelandra, and his speculations about different kinds of intelligent creatures which didn't have a lot to do with each other.

Hmmmm... would they have been created before Jesus's birth- and the King and Queen later?

Darn, can't look it up.

As for Lewis and animals, I was thinking more of his references to animals in Heaven- in the Problem of Pain?

Have found my copy of PoP- good thing, since it cost me forty bucks for a forty-year-old paperback Signet- so I'll try and get back on that.

[GreyMouser]

OK, Lewis believed that animals were created solely for the benefit of Humans.

"The error we must avoid is that of considering [animals] in themselves. Man is to be understood only in his relation to God. The beasts are to be understood only in relation to man and, through man, to God.
....
The tame animal, is therefore, in the deeepest sense, the most "natural animal" -the only one we see occupying the place it was made to occupy, and it is on the tame animal we must base all our doctrine of beasts."

PoP; "Animal Pain"

("made" in the last sentence has the meaning of "created", not "forced".)

[GreyMouser]

Lewis also rejected YEC, and believed that animals, both those existing now and their prehistoric predecessors, had been victims of a previous Fall- the Fall of Satan; and that death and violence had entered Creation long before the Temptation of Man- which seems to me to be somewhat heretical, though I'm no expert on Christian Orthodoxy.

[ecthelion]

Were the humans of perelandra (the father and lady) to be given dominion over all the hnau of the planet?
There are arguments both ways, since they say that they are to rule everything on perelandra. on the other hand, the other hnau were completely rmoved from the sphere of experience of humans (ransom), and it seems unlikely that one hnau were to rule another.
So, were they to be completely ignored?

[GreyMouser]

Were the humans of perelandra (the father and lady) to be given dominion over all the hnau of the planet?
There are arguments both ways, since they say that they are to rule everything on perelandra. on the other hand, the other hnau were completely rmoved from the sphere of experience of humans (ransom), and it seems unlikely that one hnau were to rule another.
So, were they to be completely ignored?

Hnau- that's it!

Good point- IIRC, Ransom speculates on parallels with Earth-Faery, Elves, Dryads, Naiads?

[ecthelion]

He does, but I think the conclusion is that they dissapeared, since they were too much "in between" and were not exactly "good" or "evil", and so do not fit in with the more sharply defined modern world. Ransom says that everything is coming to a point, and thus magic is "not good" and so not permissible today.
In my opinion, it is a rather weak way of trying to fill in the gaps between earth mythology and the story. (Always compared to JRR... ;) )

[hectorberlioz]

I just bought two very fine paperbacks of the last two in the trilogy. I won't read them of course until I have No.1, which I'd prefer to buy, but I'm willing to check it out at the library... :D

[littleadanel]

And I'm still waiting for the last two to be published. *bangs head* :(

[hectorberlioz]

And I'm still waiting for the last two to be published. *bangs head* :(
Wrong country to live in for CSL?...truly sad :(

[littleadanel]

Actually, it seems so. For the cosmic trilogy, definitely. Of his other stuff - I had to ask for them to be brought out from the library storage... ::duh::

Only the first two were ever published so far - I have the first from a library sale. But, they're being published (anew)!! The second one comes out sometime in autumn.

But I have a feeling i've already said all this somewhere around here.....

(Sooo sleepy. Guess I'm off....)

[hectorberlioz]

Actually, it seems so. For the cosmic trilogy, definitely. Of his other stuff - I had to ask for them to be brought out from the library storage... ::duh::

Only the first two were ever published so far - I have the first from a library sale. But, they're being published (anew)!! The second one comes out sometime in autumn.

But I have a feeling i've already said all this somewhere around here.....

(Sooo sleepy. Guess I'm off....)

Hmm...sounds like the situation here in the US with Lawhead's "Song of Albion" Trilogy. Bookstore clerks act like you're some picky connosieur, when in fact, you're simply trying to get some very good reading in!

[Earniel]

"Cosmic Triology" merged into this thread.