So... theres a balrog in the basement...

[Tinman]

I felt like refreshing my Dwarf knowledge and started reading the appendices on Durin's folk again today. I found this little blurb to be interesting: "Durin was slain by it, and the year after Náin I, his son; and then the glory of Moria passed, and its people were destroyed or fled far away."

I wonder why it took so long for the Balrog to evict the dwarves from Moria. I'm not really sure how they held it at bay for so long. I'm just trying to imagine what the year was like from the point that the Balrog killed Durin, to the following year when Nain died, and then the dwarves started leaving or were further defeated by it. Was the Balrog just not interested with the dwarves and would chose to attack them sporadically? Were the dwarves actually able to defend themselves for a year before he broke the gates or something? I always thought it was odd that Balin's Colony lasted so long... but moria is a big place, I attributed this to the fact that maybe the balrog just didn't know they had been there. Besides, Balin's crew was killed by orcs, I think. But going a year living in the same cave as the balrog... i'm just curious to some theories as to how they lasted this long.

[Lefty Scaevola]

I wonder why it took so long for the Balrog to evict the dwarves from Moria. I'm not really sure how they held it at bay for so long.
Were the dwarves actually able to defend themselves for a year before he broke the gates or something? This.
There was one balrog and a lot of dwarves. Until he accumulated some allies and minions, he could not evict the whole Folk of Durin. Recall that at two Balrogs were slain in single combats with Elf Lords in the War of the Great Jewels during the fall of Gondolin. They are not invunerable nor invincible. Indeed this particular Balrog was hiding under the moutains to avoid the fate that had overtaken the rest during the War of the Great jewels.

[Valandil]

Even if the Balrog COULD have driven out all the Dwarves in Moria single-handedly (and Lefty has a good point to make it doubtful - Moria was a mighty stronghold at the time), he didn't know exactly what was up there.

I suspect he first was disturbed by the deep mining, and wreaked havoc among that group of miners. At some point after that, he took Durin. Then later... Nain. Probably some others along the way. But when he took Durin and Nain, maybe they were leading bands down in the deep to kill him, drive him off, or even find out what the heck was going on down there.

At some point, it may have turned into the Balrog slipping around, taking out one Dwarf and then another. That got to be too tough to deal with, so the Dwarves decided to give up on Moria and leave it to him.

Also, while the Tale of Years entries are for 1980 and 1981 (Third Age), that doesn't mean the events were 12 months apart or that the Dwarves' Balrog Ordeal stretched out for an entire year. It may have been late 1980 when the Balrog was disturbed and Durin slain - and early 1981 when Nain was slain and Moria forsaken. It might have been just a few months from discovery to abandonment.

[Tinman]

Even if the Balrog COULD have driven out all the Dwarves in Moria single-handedly (and Lefty has a good point to make it doubtful - Moria was a mighty stronghold at the time), he didn't know exactly what was up there.

I suspect he first was disturbed by the deep mining, and wreaked havoc among that group of miners. At some point after that, he took Durin. Then later... Nain. Probably some others along the way. But when he took Durin and Nain, maybe they were leading bands down in the deep to kill him, drive him off, or even find out what the heck was going on down there.

At some point, it may have turned into the Balrog slipping around, taking out one Dwarf and then another. That got to be too tough to deal with, so the Dwarves decided to give up on Moria and leave it to him.

Also, while the Tale of Years entries are for 1980 and 1981 (Third Age), that doesn't mean the events were 12 months apart or that the Dwarves' Balrog Ordeal stretched out for an entire year. It may have been late 1980 when the Balrog was disturbed and Durin slain - and early 1981 when Nain was slain and Moria forsaken. It might have been just a few months from discovery to abandonment.

AH, valid points both of you. I assume 1 year later = 12 months, but if he killed Dain on newyears eve and nain on new years day...

[Olmer]

...he took Durin. Then later... Nain. But when he took Durin and Nain, maybe they were leading bands down in the deep to kill him, drive him off...
Maybe they were leading a commando of assassin dwarves to get rid of an unforeseen neighbor. Maybe not. Maybe for Balrog the neghborhood was too close for comfort.
The question is: why he went for Durin and Nain? Was he looking through hoards of dwarves to pick out these particular fellows? What so special about them to make Barlog go after them?
I think the Ring played a crucial role in it. As all of the Rings of Power -magic seeker of a powerful keeper, it had some powerful "pull".
After thousand years of pleasant slumber all of the sudden Balrog was awaken by bothersome midgets, and couldn't come back to his peaceful sleep, because the draw of the ring was uncomfortable and nagging, kind like hemorrhoids - constantly itchy, making you restless.:rolleyes: So, he went for the source to end an unpleasant feeling.
It does not matter how much time passed between elimination of two ring bearers. He went for a kill as he managed to zero on the origin of his distress.

[Tinman]

Maybe they were leading a commando of assassin dwarves to get rid of an unforeseen neighbor. Maybe not. Maybe for Balrog the neghborhood was too close for comfort.
The question is: why he went for Durin and Nain? Was he looking through hoards of dwarves to pick out these particular fellows? What so special about them to make Barlog go after them?
I think the Ring played a crucial role in it. As all of the Rings of Power -magic seeker of a powerful keeper, it had some powerful "pull".
After thousand years of pleasant slumber all of the sudden Balrog was awaken by bothersome midgets, and couldn't come back to his peaceful sleep, because the draw of the ring was uncomfortable and nagging, kind like hemorrhoids - constantly itchy, making you restless.:rolleyes: So, he went for the source to end an unpleasant feeling.
It does not matter how much time passed between elimination of two ring bearers. He went for a kill as he managed to zero on the origin of his distress.

Were they ringbearers? I guess so, as I recall hearing that part of the reason they dug so deep was because of the greed and lust for gold that the ring drove into them... however, it opens a question... why didn't the balrog claim the rings? Tolkien says the 3 were captured and 4 others were specifically consumed by dragons... so how did they get the rings away from the Nain and Durin?

[Olmer]

... why didn't the balrog claim the rings??
You mean - the Ring? Because he was not interested. Probably he even did not realise that the source of his discomfort is a itty-bitty ring on dwarven hand, so he went for a bigger target.

[Valandil]

Interesting thoughts Olmer. I didn't mention the Dwarf Ring, because I pretty much assumed that if either Durin or Nain was wearing it - the Balrog would have taken it after killing them. (so did they remove it if expecting to go into battle?) Unless the other Dwarves were able to immediately recover the body.

If he would have expanded on it - I wonder how JRRT would have told this one.

[Earniel]

If the Dwarves woke the Balrog by delving too deep in the caves, it would make sense that the mines where the Balrog was hidden were a good deal lower than the actual living quarters of Khazad-dûm. I can't see the Balrog sneaking around Khazad-dûm, picking off dwarves left and right, the way Grendel did in Beowulf. So for me that can leaves two scenarios:

If the Balrog took a full year to evict the Dwarves, then it is possible that he did not venture up immediately, staying in the lower levels for the time being. That way his presence wouldn't have disturbed the Dwarves greatly, other than cutting them off from mining. Mithril was vitally important to the Dwarves. In that aspect both Durin and NaÃ*n may have died in battle as they tried to reclaim access to their mines. Dwarves were brave, in an attack both kings would have been up front, and thus quickly killed in confrontation with a Balrog.

If the time between the awakening of the Balrog and death of both kings is shorter, as Valandil suggested, then it is possible the Balrog came to the upper levels fairly quickly after his awakening. To have such a powerful being so close to living quarters would become untenable very quickly. I doubt he would only have killed people, I expect quite a bit of structural damage in his wake as well.

The death of not one, but two kings, would have been greatly demoralising for the Dwarves. I suspect a quick evacuation after the death of NaÃ*n would have occured.

As for Balin's ill-fated colonisation, I would think the Balrog never even knew they were there, or even cared. Moria was a vast space while Balin didn't have such a large colony and I doubt they ventured far from the First Deep. Even the Chamber of Records, where Balin was buried, lay high enough for sun to penetrate.