Tauriel, of the House of Jackson-Walsh ??

[Lotesse]

Hey you guys, so. Why, I wonder, did PeterJ & Fran Walsh feel it was necessary or, or *right* to go ahead & invent a whole new character to put into their 2-part The Hobbit film? A Mirkwood elf lady they made, named her Tauriel, apparantly, played by a nice-enough-seeming girl called Evangeline Lilly, from the hit series 'Lost'. I found this out from Collider.com This is NOT going to go down so well with, well, almost everyone who's a Tolkien devotee.

I'm actually kinda surprised PJ'd "go there," what with the backlash he got from so many of us when he twisted storylines & character depictions up in his film adapts of Two Towers & Return.

This, though, is markedly different: This is actually inventing a whole new character, completely non-canonical, and then giving her a major role (she's gonna lead a faction of Thranduil Mirkwood elves, being a lady elven warrior captain in the Battle of the Five Armies or something) and- well, isn't this kind of bald-faced adultering of the actual Tolkien novel seem a little fanficcy? And gratuitous? And just- not right, at all, even if it makes for good movie?

I do love dear old Peter Jackson, despite his little filmic foibles of the past, (misrepresentation of Faramir, dumbing down of Gimli, killing Saruman with Wormtongue on Orthanc, he got Gandalf right, tho, and Legolas, too, minus the durrr-moments & shield-surfing, etc.) but. This may possibly be going just a weebit too far. It better work.

What say you?

[Lotesse]

Here's the link to the Collider.com article about this: http://collider.com/evangeline-lilly-the-hobbit-character-details/140363/#more-140363

[Earniel]

Probably to avoid the age-old discussion of why there aren't any female characters in The Hobbit. Although since they're already including Galadriel I'm not sure why they felt the need to include another and one made up to boot.

As for the backlash, seeing that happens mostly on internet forums by grumbling Tolkien purists :p, I doubt Jackson is aware of most of it. The three films did pretty well on the box-office, and the merchandise must have brought in quite a bit of cash, so Jackson can probably consider his technique of meddling with re-writing story-lines a success. So why stop now?

I just hope they're not going to do Tauriel in the look-at-me-I'm-a girl-who-can-fight-ain't-I-cool?-kinda way.

[Lotesse]

Yeah... I know. I just don't like that she, this "Tauriel," is being invented by people who are not J. R. R. Tolkien, being as The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings is/are his story/ies & all. He took a lot of liberties in the film trilogy, Jackson did, & I forgave him them all because his movies are awesome, are beautiful works of art on their own, and I can still watch them endlessly almost 10 years later & love them, BUT, to make up a brand-new non-JRRT-written "fantasy" character just to make box office bucks? Or something? I don't like the idea, at all. It really irritates me, even though I know PJ will still probably make his The Hobbit an "instant classic" amazing movie.

At least he's got the dwarves singing Tolkien song-lyrics in a suitably Dwarvish way. That trailer for the film is addictingly awesome.

[Rían]

The three films did pretty well on the box-office, and the merchandise must have brought in quite a bit of cash ...Yes, Action Arwen (http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-Fellowship-Special-Collector/dp/B000MOY5XC/ref=sr_1_3?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1327588336&sr=1-3) needs a female pal from the Hobbit movies ...

I guess he had to give up his warrior Arwen from the LOTR movies (although of course we know that he meddled with her story quite a bit) so he's getting his way this time.

The song in the trailer was a bit of a shock at first because I hadn't imagined it that way, but within seconds, I was quite impressed and getting that old familiar Tolkien haunting ... it booted me into a re-read of LOTR (just read that glorious bit with Glorfindel that was so brutally cut). Jackson messes up a lot, but he gets a lot so right that it's well worth it.

I just hope they don't make her a major character ... I'm guessing that they might even go so far as to make her the sister of Legolas, because that way, she'll be a "princess" (=more selling power for toys)

edit - when I first saw the name, Evangeline Lilly, I thought of Lily Cole (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://modelswithredhair.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Lily-Cole.jpg&imgrefurl=http://modelswithredhair.com/tag/english&h=600&w=400&sz=292&tbnid=MJzaqnOC8vNqRM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=60&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dred%2Bhaired%2Benglish%2Bmodel%26tbm% 3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=red+haired+english+model&docid=gsxyhmrKN1Ss1M&sa=X&ei=6GchT721K8vo2gWouIXhDw&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg&dur=5343) - just saw her on the Graham Norton show, and she definitely has the Jackson elvish look.

[Tessar]

Just like last time, I'm trying to walk into the movies as if they are just loosely based on the book... I'm pretty sure I'll be happier that way. :p

I'm all for strong female characters, but like Earniel said I do hope they don't go overboard with the, "WHOA LOOK AT HOW COOL I AM, I'M A KARATE PRINCESS!" thing like they did with legolas (:p).

Here's hoping she'll be an awesome character? :D I hope they'll at least put her in some cool, non-bikini armor and nice elvish clothes. We need more female warriors who aren't just pinups for drooling fanboys. Although based on those photos from the article, I'm guessing we'll be heading more in the pinup direction....

The other thing, in that vein, is that a lot of MEN will probably be happy to see a warrior-babe... it's not just inserting a woman for political correctness, it's to help draw in men.

[Rían]

yeah, that's true! :D

I wonder if they'll make her a blonde, based on the few references in the Hobbit and LOTR.

[Tessar]

Bet you anything she's going to have one of those neat, ornate bows like the old elves had.

How close to Legolas do you think they'll make her? I'm wondering if she won't be nearly a knockoff.

[Varnafindë]

... the perfect excuse for making her a blonde - if they make her Legolas' sister.

[The Gaffer]

Good shout, Lotsy.

Did I just get a whiff of "Underworld" when I read her description of the character?

I aspire to Tessar's "loosely based" position on this. Whether I can manage it depends how good the film is.

The Hobbit is an easier story to adapt, and it has a dragon, so no excuses for not making it totally excellent.

[Earniel]

Here's hoping she'll be an awesome character? :D I hope they'll at least put her in some cool, non-bikini armor and nice elvish clothes. We need more female warriors who aren't just pinups for drooling fanboys.
SO TRUE. I'm hoping that her gear will be in line of the Elvish armour of the LoTR movies. That's some decent full-body armour, not just bits of shiny metal that get uncomfortably pinned on miscellanious bodyparts.

But as far as the costume and armour department, I have a very high faith in Jackson's crew. They have successfully resisted any attempts to make Éowyn's battle gear girly or revealing. So I'm kinda expect that Tauriel's armour as well as dresses (which I expect will also be included if only to please the costume designers) to be awesome.

Story-wise I think her presence might actually work, especially on the cross-over between the Hobbit-storyline and the Whote Council-storyline, but it has to be well handled. I'm rather more fearful of other possible storyline changes than Tauriel. Although it is on the adding of things, not cutting that Jackson usually stumbles so... it can go either way.

I wonder if they'll make her a blonde, based on the few references in the Hobbit and LOTR.
oh, I hadn't thought of that, I'm kind of hoping not. There were more than enough dark-haired Elves in the books, so I hope the filmmakers won't always resort to the blonde wigs.

[Rían]

The Hobbit is an easier story to adapt, and it has a dragon, so no excuses for not making it totally excellent.
Effects today are so wonderful - before we had those kinds of effects, stories like this just couldn't help having cheesy dragons and other imaginary (or as yet undiscovered ;) ) beings, and it really took away from the story.

But as far as the costume and armour department, I have a very high faith in Jackson's crew. They have successfully resisted any attempts to make Éowyn's battle gear girly or revealing. So I'm kinda expect that Tauriel's armour as well as dresses (which I expect will also be included if only to please the costume designers) to be awesome.
Yes, they did an excellent job. I really enjoy listening to the design team commentary on the DVDs. Have you ever done that? It's amazing to hear all the details. I especially like Ngila Dickson's (something like that) commentary - she was in charge of costumes, and you can just hear the true love of fabric and clothing design in her voice. She talks about fabric the way some other people talk about lovers ... ("... and this gorgeous black brocaded whatsamacalit at so much a yard was just incredibly enjoyable to work with ..." :D ) I really loved how they made beautiful undergarments that no one saw but the actor and the dressers - they wanted the garments to contribute to the part for the actor. You really must listen to it if you haven't - at least the first DVD where she talks about the Nazgul costumes.

[Earniel]

I have not. :eek: Clearly an oversight that must be rectified.

[The Gaffer]

Effects today are so wonderful - before we had those kinds of effects, stories like this just couldn't help having cheesy dragons and other imaginary (or as yet undiscovered ;) ) beings, and it really took away from the story.

Very true, although there are some rare exceptions. Some of the Harryhausen stop-motion stuff is still watchable. But yeah, lots of those old films are pretty risible now. Caught the end of Logan's Run the other day, a case in point.

I too hope she is awesome and predict that she will be wearing more than she was in Lost.

[Rían]

I have not. :eek: Clearly an oversight that must be rectified.
It was my favorite of all the commentaries.

[Tessar]

Well, Rian, I expect if it's the same costumers she'll certainly be wearing something organic.

I swear if I had a dollar for every time they used the word "organic" to describe something they designed (be it costumes, sets, weaponry, makeup, or ANYTHING) I would have at least one million dollars. Seriously. "BLAH BLAH BLAH I WANTED TO MAKE HER CLEAVAGE LOOK VERY ORGANIC SO WE ORGANICALLY DESIGNED THIS ORGANIC BRAZIER TO MAKE HER APPEAR ENTIRELY ORGANIC FROM HEAD TO (organic) BOSOM."

:glance: I mean don't get me wrong, they can say whatever they want to when they design things as gorgeous as they did for LOTR, but seriously lets find a new word.

[Rían]

I had forgotten that! But I still enjoyed it very much - both the commentary and the results :)

[Lotesse]

The dark-haired elves were the ones from the Numenor days. I think Mirkwood & even Lorien-area elves at Hobbit-time were mostly blonde. Elrond was far from blonde, hardcore darkhaired (check the Appendixes;) he's also not only half-elven but half-elven through a *Numenorian* line! Arwen wasn't a blonde, either. Far the frick from it. This fantasy of all elves being blondies, I mean, come ON, you guys. NO, ok? Just- NO.

[Lotesse]

And YES, Ngila Dickson is a bloody genius. No, she really is. A genius. The Real Thing.

[Galin]

The dark-haired elves were the ones from the Numenor days. I think Mirkwood & even Lorien-area elves at Hobbit-time were mostly blonde.

Appendix F notes that the Eldar were generally dark-haired, with a notable exception being the Noldorin house of Finarfin. And yes the Vanyar were Eldar too! However according to Appendix F most of the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien were East-elves and not considered Eldar! so this statement need not apply to them.



However yet again! looking at posthumously published descriptions, not only are the Eldarin Vanyar mostly yellow or golden-haired, but the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien were considered Eldar -- did JRRT later remember what Appendix F had already noted here? And the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien were Telerin in origin too, making them essentially from the same large clan from which came the Sindar, who were generally dark-haired Eldar in any case.

So it's all very simple :D


Bottom line in my opinion: Tolkien-published text arguably 'allows' the filmmakers to give golden hair to any of the Tawarwaith of Mirkwood, or any of the Galadhrim of Lorien. That said, the 'Silmarillion based' definition of Eldar appears to be more popular on the web than what is noted about the term Eldar in the author-published The Lord of the Rings...


... in part maybe because of external dating.

[Lotesse]

Thank you, Galin! That was much researched & interesting ado about Elven ancestry, grazi for that, babe.

What you've presented here, confirms my assertation about the Eldar & Numenorean elves- Mirkwoods & Lorien-nites and so forth, not that any of this REALLY has anything to do with whether or not it's O.K. for Fran Walsh & Peter Jackson to thrust upon us a brand-new, invented character into The Hobbit.

I''m not into this idea. I'm not OK with the implementation of Tauriel, not quite yet. Not yet, at ALL. I have the feeling that Tolkien himself is rolling around in his grave so fiercely right now that he'll probably have to leave it, briefly, and go haunt the muckers-up of his literary legacy, for a time.

[Valandil]

The more I think about this, the more I don't mind it. Just so the story isn't re-written around her, I think there is room to include additional characters.

Especially when we keep in mind that Tolkien was writing a book in the 1930's and Jackson is making a movie in the 2010's. In the former, it's quite excusable (esp given the genre and traditional roles) to omit a strong female character of this type. In the latter - it's much harder to do so.