Amber

[etherealunicorn]

Anyone read the Amber novels by Roger Zelazny? Now this world of his is a most intriguing notion. The character that struck me the most was Benedict. I love how he ceaselessly travels from shadow to shadow to view endless variations on historical battles. That would be paradise, if you are the sort that likes to play the "what-if" game.

My favorite characters here would have to be Benedict and Fiona

And, of course, the unicorn :) ;)

[RKittle]

I had the series in one hardback book that I got from a book club 25 years ago. But I sold it in a yard sale. I remember liking it a lot but can't recall what it was about. Refresh my memory, please.

[etherealunicorn]

without going into a great deal of detail, it concerns a family who is able to imagine and travel to any number of realities. The reality of Amber is one of two primal realities (the other is Chaos, with its' own inhabitants and rulers); Amber and Chaos both cast an infinite number of Shadows of themselves and each shadow is it's own world. Our world is considered a shadow of Amber. Just really wild books altogether, and a lot of fun to read.

[EZ Board Nomad]

And excellent series, though without enough... lightheartedness for my taste. But well written and with very good and original conceptualization. :)

[Mathron]

I've actually only read one book in the series, but enjoyed it.
I actually have an interesting tale to tell - I go to Johns Hopkins University, and supposedly Roger Zelazny based some of the characters in the series off of people he knew when he lived near here, and the first gaming group at Hopkins called itself the Society of Amber!

[Grand Admiral Reese]

I read all ten books(in an omnibus) this summer. Amazing. One of the characters even shares my name(Prince Eric).

[ringbearer]

The Amber series holds a close second to LOTR of my all time favorites! I have read it six times...it is brilliant! It's a shame Zelazny died so young! Every one I have recommended this book to has simply loved it! It is just a shame that Merlin left Frakir tied to that bedpost...I'm sure Roger would have written an epilog to rectify this...had he lived:( .

My favorite character has to be Merlin...A Chaos Lord and an initiate of the Pattern...the best of both worlds!!!

[andustar]

well, I just got an omnibus edition (the first five books I think) for my b-day :) still waiting for it to arrive though, as we bought it online ;)

I went to see what you guys had to say as I had never heard of the books before. Glad to see you all liked it, because from the way my friend described it I had my doubts.

Sounds good now tho, and it had better arrive SOON! ;)

[ringbearer]

I envy anyone who is starting this series for the first time...trust me you will love it!

[andustar]

Well, I've read the first book and decided to take a break :)

So far it's promising to be really great, but I must confess to not understanding some of what's going on :)

But as the main character did not seem to be much better off at first, I guess that's okay ;)

I'm looking forward to the rest of them though. But to clarify: just how many books are there in that series? five in my edition, but I seem to remember hearing about more...? or is that just me? there's no mention of any others in the list at the front of the book, so it probably is, right?

[Elvellon]

Hi,

I’ve read the Omnibus edition last summer, and I really enjoyed it! :)

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by andustar
Well, I've read the first book and decided to take a break :)

So far it's promising to be really great, but I must confess to not understanding some of what's going on :)

But as the main character did not seem to be much better off at first, I guess that's okay ;)

I'm looking forward to the rest of them though. But to clarify: just how many books are there in that series? five in my edition, but I seem to remember hearing about more...? or is that just me? there's no mention of any others in the list at the front of the book, so it probably is, right?

There are two series...each one is 5 books long. The first was written in the 70s, and the second series in the late 80s and early 90s. How could you possibly take a break after the first book? What don't you understand?

Here is a list of the books...
1st series:
Nine Princes in Amber
The Guns of Avalon
Sign of the Unicorn
The Hand of Oberon
The Courts of Chaos

2nd series:
Trumps of Doom
Blood of Amber
Sign of Chaos
Knight of Shadows
Prince of Chaos

For fun, check out the value of a 1st Edition copy of Nine Princes in Amber...the last one I saw online went for $1,000(slightly damaged)!

[andustar]

hey, s'ok. I finished the first five and... WOW

by 'take a break' I meant for less than an hour :) my neck was aching from lying down too much, too (I read on my bed ;) )

but those books got better and better, IMO. the end of the fifth... WOW

and you know what? when I had just started the Hand of Oberon, I was going to come here and post what I thought was going on :). I should have, because some of my guesses were actually pretty good :) but never mind...

as for what I was confused about, it wasn't that bad or anything, it's just that names and strategies have never been my strong points in books... I mean, there were so many brothers and sisters!! and the plotting and intrigue got muddling. To me, at first reading anyway. Also I've never enjoyed descriptions of battles much (both tactics of where armies and troops are, AND swordplay/wrestling... whatever) just not my type of thing.

But those books were seriously amazing... I HAVE to read the others. And reread the ones I have, of course . Please, please be about Corwin still...

I loved the writing style, and the way you got to know the characters so well. Also there were several twists in the tale that could not have been predicted and the whole idea of Amber and shadows was really great.

have you people got any recommendation for other books by him? I did find one in the library but didn't take it (I can't remember what it was called, but I didn't like the impression I got from both the blurb and when I read a couple of pages of it. It was Scifi and looked... I don't know... the pages I read, people were saying pretty gruesome things and planning murder with all sorts of "interesting" sharp instruments... not for me)

[ringbearer]

His other books are not "fantasy" like Amber. Some of his short story collections are good. A pre-Amber book worth reading is called "Lord of Light"(Hugo award). Another good one is called "The Changeling".

The 2nd Amber series is more about Merlin, Corwin's son...but Corwin is in it. Sorry to say, he does not play a major role until towards the end. The 2nd series is somewhat better, though.
Merlin is a fantastic character...he is both a Chaos Lord, and an initiate of the Pattern! A Chaos Lord has the power to shape-shift. One cool thing about the 2nd series is Corwin's neighbor Bill,
on the shadow Earth gets to travel to Amber! Merlin can walk through Shadow AND summon things from other Shadows, as well.

There is one huge paperback called "The Great Book of Amber"...it contains all 10 parts. It retails for around $20. Also, try to find "The Visual Guide To Castle Amber". It has pictures of the Major Trumps approved by Zelazney!

Hey andustar, can you tell me who Corwin's grandmother is? It is revealed in the books you have read!

[andustar]

who Corwin's grandmother is? Er, sorry, no. But don't worry, I'm going to reread them in a couple of days and then I promise to give you the answer :)

Good, I like the idea of Merlin being the main char in the next ones. What I meant in my previous post was that I didn't want it to move a looong time ahead, like some second series do. You know what I mean? where what you've read before is now ancient history

My library doesn't have ANY more books by him! only that scifi one and the Hand of Oberon! This means... well either I'm gonna buy the books, or... oh well, I guess I'll buy them :) (no, I really want to own then, but I don't have enough money to buy all the books I want to own :))

Anyway it'll probably be a while till I read them... >: ( I'll make do with reading the first five then...

[ringbearer]

Seek the answer in "The Hand of Oberon".

[Mathron]

How big a role does Oberon have in the books? I've only read one, so don't know, but am curious, as I know the guy who, supposedly, Zelazny based Oberon's character on.

[Onodrim]

Well, nice to see a thread about The Books of Amber! I own the Great Book of Amber! What an awsome series. I've read the series about 23-24 times now so I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the book. My second favourite book series next to Lord of the Rings.

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Onodrim
Well, nice to see a thread about The Books of Amber! I own the Great Book of Amber! What an awsome series. I've read the series about 23-24 times now so I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the book. My second favourite book series next to Lord of the Rings.

Glad to see more fans! Since you have an extensive knowledge about the story...don't give away the answer about Corwin's Grandmother to Andustar. Let Andustar find it.

[Onodrim]

Okay!

[ringbearer]

So, where the heck is andustar???:D

[Bregalad]

How lovely to see a whole herd of Amber fans! I also have the picture book of Amber, but I've never seen the "big book" of Amber. Do you all know that there is an Amber Role playing game? It's big fun! I was a GM for a game of it years ago. It's a difficult game to GM, since there are so many possibilities! And your players can literally go off into shadows and do anything! But it was big fun. I did have to recomend that all my players read at least some of the books, it's just too hard to explain that world simply!

[ringbearer]

Welcome, Bregalad! I think they should give Amber its own section! Since Andustar has disappeared
maybe someone else can answer my trivia question about who Corwin's grandma is!:D

[ringbearer]

Hey, here is a Trump I foud online...if you want more, let me know!

[Putz0999]

Roger Zelazny is certainly a favorite author. The Amber series is possibly his best work, but some of his other stories are also great.

The Dreammaster, Damnation Alley, and Lord of Light are some others well worth reading.

Dreammaster and Damnation Alley have both been made into movies.

Enjoy,

Putz

[Bregalad]

LOL, ringbearer! I know who grandma is, and she's a fine lookin' filly too!

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Putz0999
Roger Zelazny is certainly a favorite author. The Amber series is possibly his best work, but some of his other stories are also great.

The Dreammaster, Damnation Alley, and Lord of Light are some others well worth reading.

Dreammaster and Damnation Alley have both been made into movies.

Enjoy,

Putz

Lord of Light is very good, too! Also chek out "Creatures of Light and Darkness"! I have seen the "Damnation Alley" movie...the part with the killer cockroaches was way cool!:D

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Bregalad
LOL, ringbearer! I know who grandma is, and she's a fine lookin' filly too!

Remember this though, since she was a Chaos being, she was also a shapeshifter...so there was no beastiality involved!

[Bregalad]

Originally posted by ringbearer


Remember this though, since she was a Chaos being, she was also a shapeshifter...so there was no beastiality involved!

LOL! Well you know that rumor about Dworkin and the unicorn was just a rumor, it was never proven. Also, I'm not at all certain about her being a shape shifter. She is the guardian of the pattern just as the serpent is the guardian of the logrus. They are not really like our other cast of characters. Which brings up an interesting thought: If she is tied to the pattern as the serpent is tied to the logrus, then she couldn't have existed before Oberon made the pattern and created Amber. But both Dworkin and Oberon existed before the pattern. So I think perhaps that rumor is a rumor after all.:D

[ringbearer]

Sorry to disagree...but...Dworkin drew the first Pattern. He learned how from the Jewel of Judgement that the Unicorn gave him! Re-read the part in "The Hand of Oberon" where Dworkin is telling Corwin(he thinks it's Oberon) of the origins of Amber.

[Bregalad]

Oops, I mispoke! My bad! Of course Dworkin drew the pattern!

[ringbearer]

Also, from what I've read...the Unicorn stole the Jeweled Eye(the Jewel of Judgement) from the Serpent. I think the Unicorn was a Chaos being because...everything was Chaos before the Pattern...hence (she) was probably a shapeshifter. What's weird, is that the Serpent's Eye contained a pattern! !

What are your thoughts on this...Bregalad?

Also...have you read his novel "Roadmarks"...another great time travel story! If you have, I have a great trivia question from that one, too! :D

[mirrille]

I just got the Amber omnibus. I'm on to the fourth book and I am absolutely amazed! It's confusing in alot of places, but that's because the politics are so convoluted. But then again, i like that kind of book. Now that I have a break from school I have more time to read. It's already looking like this series is going to make it into my all-time favourite list, and I usually wouldn't say that without finishing something.:D

[ringbearer]

Glad you are enjoying it!:)

[Bregalad]

Dang, Ringbearer, it's been so long since I read the second series I don't even have an opinion on that! Can you imagine...ME without an opinion of something! LOL! I'll have to try to dig those books out again!
I've never read the "roadmarks". Think I should try to find it?

[ringbearer]

Yes...find it(Roadmarks)...very good average size novel!

[ringbearer]

Just thought I'd "bump" an older post to bring out more fans!:D

[mirrille]

Hehe..:D
I recommended this series to a fantasy-reading friend of mine (I only have a few). I promised to read one of his favourite series if he would read Amber. He broke into a huge grin when I asked him how he liked it :D and said he finished the whole series in a week because it was so good. Yes! Caught another one. Now to work on friend number 2! ;)

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

Hallo
I just found Zealazni's books in the labrary and I started to read Amber from the fourth book he was amazing (I read the last line several times just to be sure what she in saying)
I read all the 10 books of Amber (in a very wrong order) and liked them.
My friends didn't liked them! :(
you know interesting Zealazni sites

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

No one answered my post :(
If someone know some intresting sites on it that will pleas tell me.
there are great books! try to read them.

[TwirlingString]

What are these about maybe I'll put them on my to read list

[mirrille]

Yes! Do that! Read them now! You'll like it.:D

The first one is "Nine Princes in Amber", which starts out with this amnesiac guy who finds out he's a prince of some magic place and his brother is trying to keep him exiled on Earth. And then...it gets complicated and hard to explain. But it's good. :D

[TwirlingString]

Took your advice, just order the entire series over the library internet web

[TwirlingString]

Took your advice, just order the entire series over the library internet web:cool:

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

they are really good.I like the begining of the first book when he is trying to understand who is he.

[ringbearer]

Hey, I am back from a long absence...good to see the Amber thread...still going.


"
Hallo
I just found Zealazni's books in the labrary and I started to read Amber from the fourth book he was amazing (I read the last line several times just to be sure what she in saying)
I read all the 10 books of Amber (in a very wrong order) and liked them.
My friends didn't liked them!
you know interesting Zealazni sites"

Start over and read them in order, please.

"No one answered my post
If someone know some intresting sites on it that will pleas tell me.
there are great books! try to read them."

Don't know any real good Amber sites...keep looking!

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

I can't read them on the right order, they are in the library and the seventh isn't there (I took it from my uncle) and not they all in the same time. my uncle have the first books but he gave part of them to people. I read again part of it.
there are another fantasy books that he wrote ?(not the one on the war good against evil I can't translate back his name to english)

[mirrille]

Ringbearer!
You're BACK!
We missed you.:)
Welcome back, our wonderful Amber expert.:D

[ringbearer]

A humble thank you...we must keep spreading the word about this wonderfull series...keep the Amber posts going...If 'Star Wars', can have it's own category...So must Amber...Go to the other Amber posts and keep them going as well...I left for a while...because I got bored with the rings(too many stupid posts, and frankly I ran out of things to post about, but I can talk about Amber forever)...long live the Trumps!:D

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by mirrille
Yes! Do that! Read them now! You'll like it.:D

The first one is "Nine Princes in Amber", which starts out with this amnesiac guy who finds out he's a prince of some magic place and his brother is trying to keep him exiled on Earth. And then...it gets complicated and hard to explain. But it's good. :D

Amber IS hard to explain...the story(s) have everything from swashbuckling(sheesh, how do you spell that word?) to Sci-Fi.

See this (http://www.tolkientrail.com/entmoot/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1849) for input there as well!

Let's start some Amber quiz threads.

[webwizard333]

After Lord of Light by Zelazny, I moved on to his Amber books. I was amazed by how good they were. I've only read the first five, but as soon as I can, I'm getting the next five. They're incredibaly original with the whole idea of 2 worlds that throw off other worls like shadows and the royal families.I like how though the books are ery serious, there are still some funny lines every once in awhile (hurricane and a pile driver :) ). I look forward to reading the next five, though some of the reviews say those books aren't as good.

[ringbearer]

:D Glad you like them!:D You will enjoy part 2!

[Radagast The Brown]

I just read the ten books!!! they are great!!!!!!!!!! :D

I just didn't like the last book... it finished.. ahhh... I didn't like it. it was the worst ending I ever read!!! (I didn't like it)
it finished in the middle of everything!! :eek:

[ringbearer]

I know...a lot of loose ends. Hello and Goodby!

[Radagast The Brown]

huh? goodbye? :eek: :confused:

[Mirage]

BTW, it seems another author has been authorized to write what I think is a three volume prequel covering Oberon (Corwin's father). I saw the first book in hardback at Barnes and Noble. I'm somewhat leary of this since Zelzany's Amber is so distinctive. In keeping with the tradition of the previous Amber books, this new one seemed a bit thin and I could not justify purchasing it. I'll wait until the paperback is out.

As a side note, some of Zelazny's best writing can be found in his early short stories from the 60s when he burst into the sc-fi writing scene. However, I don't know if any of it is still in print.

[Elbereth Gilthoniel]

Mirage

ok, I think I understand waht you have written but I used dictionaryso I'm not sure.:
you saw some books that you on oberon and you are waiting for them to get out in paperback.
if I'm wrong
could you write it in a more simple way?

[Mirage]

Originally posted by Elbereth Gilthoniel
Mirage

ok, I think I understand waht you have written but I used dictionaryso I'm not sure.:
you saw some books that you on oberon and you are waiting for them to get out in paperback.
if I'm wrong
could you write it in a more simple way?

Yes. You are correct.

At my local bookstore I saw a hardcover book about Oberon. It was not written by Zelazny. It was written by another author.

According to the information on the book, it says that it is the 1st of 3 books about Oberon.

I did not buy it because I prefer having a paperback version. However, it may be awhile before a paperback version is released because the hardcover version was just published.

[mirrille]

I've got a really bad feeling about these "prequels". What is this author's connection to Zelazny that lets him write these books?

[webwizard333]

I think, so don't take my word for it, that I've heard about these books before. I believe there was mention of them being put together from Zelazny's notes.

On the topic of continueing the series, was Zelazny intending to write more Amber books before he died suddenly. I've read many times that the last one is very inconclusive and ends just before a conforntation between Order and Chaos.

[GRONK!!!]

Yeah amazing series but GRONK never really liked the ending of book ten. It seemed like Merlin randomly declared "Ok, game over I win. Lets stop the novel here." Has anyone read this prequel? GRONK will read it, if its not a shame to Zelazny's name.

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by GRONK!!!
Yeah amazing series but GRONK never really liked the ending of book ten. It seemed like Merlin randomly declared "Ok, game over I win. Lets stop the novel here." Has anyone read this prequel? GRONK will read it, if its not a shame to Zelazny's name.

Gronk, did you do that on purpose...Merlin ("Randomly") declared"...?...if so...Beautifull!

I know that Chaos supposedly existed before Order(Pattern)...but I think a true confrontation would destroy both and everything...kind of like matter and anti-matter colliding...So Merl had to stop it.

[Coney]

Stumbled upon this thread by accident, but glad that I did.

Must give the Amber books a re-read........must be over ten years since I last read 'em:D

Wonder if they still have the same apeal now that I'm older and dafter;)

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Coney
Stumbled upon this thread by accident, but glad that I did.

Must give the Amber books a re-read........must be over ten years since I last read 'em:D

Wonder if they still have the same apeal now that I'm older and dafter;)

Like LOTR, the more you re-read the better they are...Welcome to the Amber thread!

[Coney]

Originally posted by ringbearer
Like LOTR, the more you re-read the better they are...Welcome to the Amber thread!

TY I've a feeling that I'll be posting here quite a bit once I have the time to get back into the books proper (only had time to read first 3 chapters of first book so far).:)

It's good to see the 'moot has so many would-be Amberites:D

[GRONK!!!]

Gronk, did you do that on purpose...Merlin ("Randomly") declared"...?...if so...Beautifull!

Er GRONK accidentally does these sort of things all the time, but GRONK has no shame so he'll take credit for it.

[ringbearer]

Keep Amber thread alive...Amber Lives!

[Coney]

Well, I promised to post again in this thread.

I re-read the Amber books*sigh*

Maybe I'm just getting old but they seemed childish now*shrugs*

Fantasy equivalent of a soap-opera (yup, even worse than the god-awfull Dragonlance books).

Ach well, those new to the heroic fantasy genre will probs like 'em.:)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Just curious, what did you dislike about the Dragonlance books?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Just curious, what did you dislike about the Dragonlance books?

Hang on Gwaimir, there is a Dragonlance thread around here somewhere, I'll try to dig it up:)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm, good point, we probably shouldn't go off-topic...;)

[Anglorfin]

I have not read most of this thread because I m afraid of even the littlest of spoilers, but I will say that my friend has just introduced me to these books and I love them. I only read two so far but from what I read I really liked. It seems from this point on that things will get a little more adventur-ey.

But for some reason they are really hard to find in the bookstores so I'm getting a little discouraged at owning a copy of them myself.

[ringbearer]

Originally posted by Anglorfin

But for some reason they are really hard to find in the bookstores so I'm getting a little discouraged at owning a copy of them myself.

Look for "The Great Book of Amber" print is very fine, but it has all 10 novels in one HUGE paperback...think it is still available at Amazon.com

[ringbearer]

Good news for Amber fans!!! There is a book out now which contains 5 Amber short stories which tie up some loose ends...the book was published in late 2003 and is called "Manna from Heaven"! :)

[Werewindle111]

I know...a lot of loose ends. Hello and Goodby!
I think you mean "Goodbye and hello."

[Werewindle111]

Greeting and Salutations Everyone,

I have read "The Great book of Amber" four times and I have to admit that it is great for anyone that hasn't read it.

I have also read the novel "Lord of Light" and the short stories "Comes now the power", "For a breath I tarry", "Engine at heartspring's center", "Halfjack", "Home is the Hangman", "Permafrost", "Loki 7281", "Mana from heaven" (Not "Manna from Heaven"), "24 views of Mt. Fugi, By Hokusai", "Come back to the killing ground, Alice, My love", and "The Last Defender of Camelot".

I have also read "The Dawn of Amber" series, which includes "The Dawn of Amber", "Chaos and Amber", and "To rule in Amber"(for comeing).

With this I will answer many of your questions concerning "The Great Book of Amber's" background.

This series's my person is Corwin's father, Oberon, at the age of about 26 and just finding out that Dworkin is his father, and of shadows and the Logrus(chaos's pattern).
He tries to escape an enemy which is trying to wipe out his family because Dworkin tries to raise a mightier power(the pattern).
At first Dworkin raises a temporary pattern out in the shadows before Oberon is even born(less than 200 years before) to lessen chaos's power.
Yes Oberon is born from a Unicorn(which does shapeshift) and Dworkin. Dworkin finds the Unicorn after he raises his pattern, and the Unicorn can pass through shadow.
As Oberon is growing after Dworkin finds him, he finds out that Dworkin needs him to cast a new pattern which is in Oberon. So Dworkin erases the temporary pattern, "Sand", and uses the pattern in Oberon to construct the new one out of his blood. And thats where I got to.

And what else...

Oberon didn't make the pattern(Dworkin did)..
Oberon didn't make Amber(Amber was just the first shadow)..
The serpents eye contained the pattern because Dworkin put it there by straping Oberon into a machine and extracting a copy of Oberons pattern..
there are many generations before Dworkin..
Dworkin is only around 225 years old in this series..
... and that's it!

[ringbearer]

Well met, Werewindle111!
I have read your list of books by Roger...you must find and read "Roadmarks"!
One of the best "time travel" books out there!
Glad you enjoy Amber!...please answer one question, as I have not yet obtained a copy of "Mana From Heaven"...is Frakir released from the bedpost?!

[Werewindle111]

Im sorry ringbearer but the Mana from heaven that i read was not the novel. The "Mana from Heaven" that i read was one of Zelazny's many short stories and this was about the last remaining group from Atlantis that fight, make that scurmish over "Mana". Mana is some type of cosmic power which is found in natural things to them and the story takes place during now.

The cosmic power "Mana" was once very abundant in Atlantis but they misused it and ran very low. Around this part Atlantis... well.. it sank.
The Mana gave the last survivors unnaturally long lives and they vowed not to overuse it again, and not to breed.(To bad for them.)

Im sorry to say that this short story does not go along with Amber, but im sure there is a book that does. :)

[ringbearer]

Thanks!

[Werewindle111]

Anyone else need to know something about how Amber started or the Amberite family?

[ringbearer]

another huge bump! Keep the Amber thread alive!

[Mari]

Wow, it has to be over 7 years ago that I read this series. I don't evenr emember much about it. I remember not being able to put it down, but when I'd finished I didn't really feel up to reading more of his stuff (if there is any) for a while.

[ringbearer]

he has a lot of stuff...if you like Time Travel...check out Roadmarks

[Nerwen]

I have read all the Amber books, but I prefer the first series, as I think Corwin has a better sense of the personal epic than Merlin does.

ETA: My fave Roger Z book is A Night In the Lonesome October.

Susie

[Mari]

I'll have a look in our local library. You know, libraries used to be my favourite place ever, but recently they all look modern with fewer books and more computers and DVDs. What happened to those huge racks with actual books? :(

[Nerwen]

I know. I never have gotten over donating a book to our local library and finding it "For Sale" a coupl of years later. :(

Susie

[Mari]

Oh, that's just not right! >_<

[Nerwen]

I know. It made me feel a fool

Susie