How will the ring save the free people?

[monkey10120]

Boromir, faramir, and denethor wanted the ring to defeat evil. But what good will it do them....Wow, they can turn invisible. They do not know how to use the ring the way sauron did. I think it will make sauron more mad and focus all his forces on gondor if he finds out they have the ring.
So what power can they achieve by having the ring?

[Butterbeer]

I must admit it took me some self-will to not to make a sarcastic reply to this.

Faramir i think rejected the ring - but as to Boromir and (potentially - but presumably by this point, Denethor)

well... the power of the ring was not merely to make you invisable - and a Man of Adamant with strong will and (importantly) a will to dominate others could, in time begin to master ..or at least start to utilise the Ring's power...

Boromir for example, i'd put to the forum..

might well have proved more effective specifiaclly with the ring, than even Aragorn...

If by that we merely mean the ability to drive the Foes of Gondor before him .. and (naturally) have no thought beyond that ..or for what happens next...

I think monkey10120, whilst i agree with your critique on this, to some degree .. one also has to factor in the sheer Desire that the ring exerts onto all...

so any madness, or merely Folly, it is for Boromir or Denethor , in their pride, it may be seen to be to want or lust after the ring... and to draw the Heat of Mordor upon them the faster - indeed a strategem of Aragorn's when he uses the Palantir ...

It is also very Human.

and .. who is to say what Denethor, or more likely Boromir..might not have actually have done wielding the Ring?

Is any such outcome clearly defined?

Certainly not by Tolkien -

bar the eventually triumph of Evil... that is evident by the ring's mere existence..

But might Boromir have won? (initially)?

Possibly yes...

[Lefty Scaevola]

The most likely result of anyone using trying to master the ring and use its powers of command in the the period of time available to stop the massive invasion by Sauron would have been only to let Sauron know where the ring was so that he could concentrate his attack there.

[Wilhelm]

Lefty makes an excellent point.

With no one using the ring Sauron was left to guess where it was. And he reacted to his guesses...

- He sent the Nazgul to the shire once Gollum revealed that the ring might be there
- Gandalf bolted to Minas Tirith with Pippin (after Pippin looked in the palantir) out of fear that Sauron would send some thing to collect the ring
- He sent the bulk of his forces to siege Minas Tirith as he assumed the ring was there (other tactical reasons were at play here as well)
- He sent a large force to the field of Cormallen as he thought Aragorn was going to wield it there (once again other tactical reasons may have come in to play here)

One would think there would have been a greater focus had he known for sure where it was. This would limit the time the new wielder would have to figure out the workings of the ring.

[Butterbeer]

Well obviously - that is merely a recap of the events of the book - although on a second read.. im not sure how accurate i'd rate it...

Either way though... hardly a discussion of a "what if" scenario ... is it? :)

[monkey10120]

I think it is a good what if post. I agree with Lefty and Wilhelm because, like I said, mordor will focus all its power to that person. Every person who fell into the hands of the ring has either died or become corrupted. If it would have gave men power than why was Isildur slain. If the mighty maiar, elves and aragorn refuse the ring because they know they cannot control it then what makes you think a man can control it's power.

[Olmer]

How the ring could save free people?
I think if you have a device with which you are able to read the mind of your hostile neighbor and, therefore, to know of all his plans and moves, it will put you in more superior position to master you defence or offence.
I agree with Butterbeer, Boromir, or rather Denethor, would be best candidates to wield the Ring without of much ill effect.
The desire to possess the Ring is not a corruption and nobody died because of using it. Isildur was slain under a very suspicious circumstances because he was HAVING it, not because he was USING it.

[monkey10120]

The ring does not have power to read the enemies mind, it has the power to control and corrupt the will of people. And of coarse no one will be corrupted for possessing the ring, but that is not what I am talking about. The ring is no good if you possess it but I am talking about using the ring. An I personally think the best one to use the ring is Gimli. The dwarfs are stubborn and resisted their rings before. Men fell under the control in an instant , and those were the lesser rings. If their will fell so easy than why would they be more trusted with the one ring.

[Olmer]

Yes, it DOES! Galadriel plainly told Frodo that he can't read Sauron's mind ( who was, by the way, without any ring), or any others, but with time and practice he can train himself to use the Ring to enhance his natural povers, which is already became more sharp and intense under the Ring influence.

[monkey10120]

I stand corrected! I totally forgot about that part. My bad. But the Palantir can already predict what the enemy is going to do, it is a bit vague, but it is accurate. And Denethor is already using it in gondor. So the ring would help little in reading what the enemy does already. But no one understands that the ring is made for sauron and can only be controlled by him.

[Butterbeer]

But no one understands that the ring is made for sauron and can only be controlled by him.


Hardly so, my Good Monkey...

Else, if you think this through ..we would have no book, nor indeed story -

and nor would there be any peril for Gandalf, Elrond, Boromir, Galadriel et al...

as to the danger to Sauron of a Mortal Man, such as Aragorn, or Denethor ..if and if not them... why not Boromir the Brave? .. wielding the ring and seeking mastery ...

well, if you need more than the counsel of Elrond, or the wisdom of Gandalf... or the word of Galadriel ... then Monkey, we have one other rather Key Witness do we not?

I present to you:

Sauron himself.. creator, maker, Master and best versed in Ring Lore, and specifically of the ONE.


Are we not told that he will be in "great Fear" fearing which mighty one might emerge wielding the ring?

There's much more, naturally, but i'll leave you with that thought.
Best BB

[brownjenkins]

I think that someone with the proper knowledge and power could have made good use of the ring, as in *good* for themselves. If Saruman had come in possession of it, I don't think he would have instantly become a lacky a Sauron. The same can probably be said of a Gandalf, Elrond or Galadriel. The ring was a tool that Sauron created with his power, not an extension of himself. Others could possess and master it to a degree.

Gollum's longtime possession of the ring alone, at a time when Sauron was alive and well in Middle Earth, shows that there was no real direct connection between the ring and the Dark Lord. The only reason things didn't get a whole lot more ugly was that the ring was in the hands of a relative simpleton. Sauron was lucky that no truly talented individual ever came in possesion of the ring.

[hectorberlioz]

I would have been able to handle the ring. I'd show it who was boss!

[EllethValatari]

Anyone else smelling a bit of pride coming from hector's direction? Thankfully, sarcastic pride....

[Alcuin]

Boromir understood the Ring quite sufficiently to comprehend – probably correctly – what he could accomplish with the Ring in “The Breaking of the Fellowship” in FotR:It is mad not to use it, to use the power of the Enemy against him. The fearless, the ruthless, these alone will achieve victory. What could not a warrior do in this hour, a great leader? What could not Aragorn do? Or if he refuses, why not Boromir? The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!
Gandalf told Frodo that “The Ring had given [Gollum] power according to his stature.” And when Frodo asked her why he could not see all the bearers of the Rings of Power and know their thoughts, Galadriel replied, “Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others.” Besides the observation that she was remarkably well-informed about a private conversation, Galadriel reinforced what Gandalf said: the more powerful its bearer, the greater the power of the Ring. In his Letters, Tolkien remarked that only a creature of equal stature with Sauron could withhold the Ring from him: Aragorn could not, nor could even Elrond or Galadriel, though they’d have put up quite the fight! Only Gandalf (and presumably Saruman) could have used the Ring as Sauron would, to its full effect.

But Boromir was undoubtedly correct: he’d have become a commander of tremendous power using the Ring; just not powerful enough to defeat Sauron and keep the Ring from him forever.