gandalfs memory

[monkey10120]

when gandalf comes back why does he think he is saruman. i know he was taken back to lorien and healed but why does he not remember his name or who he really is?

[Gordis]

when gandalf comes back why does he think he is saruman. i know he was taken back to lorien and healed but why does he not remember his name or who he really is?

Old age identity crisis aggravated by post-traumatic syndrome....:D

[brownjenkins]

Too much pipe weed!

[Tinman]

alzheimer's

[inked]

Could be that dying and being re-bodied is bit much even for a Maiar. The cross circuitry of the brain might have gotten a little discombobulated in the process. Only the highest is capable of entering fully into the lowest - as noted by CS Lewis - in regard to the Incarnation.

[Lefty Scaevola]

I think it is more that the Istari were only allowed a limited incarnation, so that that could live and work among Men and elves in a limited capacity, not as gods. This limited the amount of knowledge and memories that could take with them into that incanation. The set of memories that Gandalf was alloted in his 2nd incation was not the entirely the same as in the first, becasue his mission had been a bit altered.

[Varokhâr]

I agree that it was probably the sheer trauma of the reincarnation process that caused Gandalf any confusion. Restoring a life to full working order, and transforming him as was done, was bound to be a major undertaking, so difficulty in immediately adjusting isn't terribly surprising.

[Gordis]

And note that by the time Gandalf the White first meets Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, he had already spent about a month recovering in Lorien. Perhaps initially he remembered even less, but was briefed by Galadriel on G the Gray's former life, on the Quest, on Saruman's treachery etc.

Sure his attitude has changed considerably: first thing he does is the OPEN display of his Maia powers - a thing he was absolutely forbidden to do in his "Grey" life:
The old man was too quick for him. He sprang to his feet and leaped to the top of a large rock. There he stood, grown suddenly tall, towering above them. His hood and his grey rags were flung away. His white garments shone. He lifted up his staff, and Gimli's axe leaped from his grasp and fell ringing on the ground. The sword of Aragorn, stiff in his motionless hand, blazed with a sudden fire. Legolas gave a great shout and shot an arrow high into the air: it vanished in a flash of flame.
It looks like most of the restrictions put on the Istari were lifted for the final part of his mission.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't think the premise of the OP's question has been established. Gandalf didn't think he was Saruman, nor does he forget who he really is, not in the sense that you or I may forget things on a daily basis.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Indeed, the memory bit is much more subtle.
"Gandalf" "Yes that was the anme, I was Gandalf"
"I have forgotten much that I thought I Knew, and learned again much that I had forgotten"

[Coffeehouse]

I don't think Gandalf thought he was Sarumann. He was simply saying that he had taken the place that once was Sarumann's, being the White.

For me the colours of the wizards is quite important. The Blue Wizards are blue.. and the color of vastness is blue (the oceans, the skies). Where do you get lost? In the vastness.. the Blue Wizards got lost. They were lost in the blue:p

Radagast.. easy one right. Radagast the Brown, of the Earth, of beasts and birds.

Gandalf the grey.. the wise but also the in-between, the question mark, the wizard of nuance.

Sarumann the White.. the highest form of wizardry. The most innocent of colors.. the purest

Ah but then Sarumann turns into the multi-colored (the rainbow colours) wizard. The wizard that has broken the purity of white. The wizard that has taken the highest form of wizardy and broken it down into individual parts. The wizard who took his vision and made it into greed, and who began seeing the world as something mechanical.
Sarumann the multicoloured is thus the wizard that went too far, broke the magic of white like rays of light break upon a prism.

Gandalf attains the white robe when Sarumann loses it. Sarumann falls and Gandalf rises (again).

[Voronwen]

I don't think Gandalf thought he was Sarumann. He was simply saying that he had taken the place that once was Sarumann's, being the White.
This is how i always interpreted it, too.

His slight confusion reminds me of the type that someone has when they are just waking up from a long, deep sleep full of frightfully bizarre dreams.

[Noldori]

Well, after all, he did kind of die. That has to be a frightfully bizarre dream in itself.

[thekingofgondor]

Gandalf makes mention of how he "strayed out of thought and time... The stars wheeled overhead, and every day was as long as a life age of the earth..." Since he was not Gandalf before coming to Middle-earth, and was only there for what amounted to a short amount of time in his lifespan, coupled with the fact that time seemed to be extended for him between his death and reincarnation, it would be like a man in his fifties suddenly meeting a group of people he hadn't seen since he was in his twenties, and they call him by some nickname he hadn't used since then. It wasn't that Gandalf forgot who he was, it was simply that, to him, it had been a long time since he remembered being called that (especially since the elves and dwarves had their own names for him, and since returning, he had primarily been in contact with the eagles and elves up until that point), as well as the fact that he had changed and was no longer "Gandalf the Grey" as Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas knew him.

[GrayMouser]

I like it :thumb:

[Thorir Orcbane]

I think that as Gandalf's role as the Grey allowed him to serve distinctly in and for that purpose, including all aliases,titles,memories, etc he had with him in that role. As the White, however, he was just 'beginning', per se, and he had only a shadow of his former memory at the time. Or just enough for him to remember good aquantances and friends, along with his mission. It's like the same computer drive but different users, I would say.